AI using insider knowledge of FA

[le receveur]

Reviewing transactions yesterday, i was looking at the days released players (mainly worrying that AI is releasing players they should not). One of the guy i looked at had already been signed by a minor league team, which mean my franchise never had a chance to sign him, since player was never a free agent for me. i wonder if this happens a lot... (you also don't see the signing listed, since it was done at the minor league level).

[RchW]

Originally Posted by le receveur

Reviewing transactions yesterday, i was looking at the days released players (mainly worrying that AI is releasing players they should not). One of the guy i looked at had already been signed by a minor league team, which mean my franchise never had a chance to sign him, since player was never a free agent for me. i wonder if this happens a lot... (you also don't see the signing listed, since it was done at the minor league level).

Not sure why. Is it v13? I see all signings in my leagues. FWIW you did have a shot but would have to have seen him and offered a contract. That means looking every day. That small advantage for the AI seems ok.

See this thread.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...gue-teams.html

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by RchW

Not sure why. Is it v13? I see all signings in my leagues. FWIW you did have a shot but would have to have seen him and offered a contract. That means looking every day. That small advantage for the AI seems ok.

See this thread.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...gue-teams.html

v14
it's a period i look everyday (it was around signing deadline so i go day by day see who AI dumps to open spots, and have team re-offer sometimes). the first time he appeared in transactions, i looked at him and he was already signed.

and signing was not in the major league signing. if i looked at minors, it said Pulaski signed him. is there a place i can see all the signings for the whole universe?

[RchW]

Originally Posted by le receveur

v14
it's a period i look everyday (it was around signing deadline so i go day by day see who AI dumps to open spots, and have team re-offer sometimes). the first time he appeared in transactions, i looked at him and he was already signed.

and signing was not in the major league signing. if i looked at minors, it said Pulaski signed him. is there a place i can see all the signings for the whole universe?

Please excuse the cross-examination but I'm trying to understand.

Can you post screenshots?
What transaction did you see? The release. The signing. Both?
Are you saying he was released and signed and saved all without the game advancing 1 day?

My point is that if you saw him the day he was released you should have been able to offer a contract since he was a FA. If this didn't happen then it is a major bug.

AFAIK the game must advance and be saved before any action such as a release or a FA signing is completed.

[le receveur]

i will look through the transactions. problem is i don't seem to find a log of minor league signings or release in history (i'm in following year).

and it did surprise me, since release and signing were in one line (so same date)

[RchW]

Originally Posted by le receveur

i will look through the transactions. problem is i don't seem to find a log of minor league signings or release in history (i'm in following year).

and it did surprise me, since release and signing were in one line (so same date)

Wow! That's crazy. I've never seen a non trade transaction involving two teams in one line ever.

Do you have a backup?

[hefalumps]

I see fringe players who are released get signed by an AI team before I get a chance at them all the time. One recent example...

I had a player I'd signed to a minor league contract with major league option. After 30 days I still hadn't promoted him, so when I advanced to the next day, the guy became a free agent and was immediately signed to a minor league contract by another organization before I had a shot at him.

Just a brief look at the minor league transaction logs and I see this happening a lot - here's two fringe guys I never got a shot at:

Sunday, May 16th, 1954
Montreal Royals: Activated SS Rudy Rufer from the disabled list.
Syracuse Chiefs: Activated 3B Hank Schenz from the disabled list.
Chattanooga Lookouts: Released MR Dick Weik.
Charleston Senators: Signed free agent MR Dick Weik to a minor league contract.

Saturday, May 15th, 1954
Chattanooga Lookouts: Received LF Harmon Killebrew from Major League Level Washington.
Louisville Colonels: Received MR Marion Fricano from Major League Level Boston for injury rehab.
Louisville Colonels: Released MR John Mackinson.
Syracuse Chiefs: Signed free agent MR John Mackinson to a minor league contract.

EDIT: As the OP pointed out, you do have to check the minor league transaction logs and correlate them with the major league transaction logs, as sometimes a player will be released by a ML team and then get signed by a mL team on the same day.

[injury log]

Yes, this doesn't happen often, but it definitely happens. I see it most often with international free agents (the established ones that are generated in the offseason, not the teenagers generated in July), though it may happen just as or more often with normal minor league free agents, and I just don't notice. I often see one or two of those international FA guys sign minor league deals the moment they're created.

I don't know why it happens, and I don't think it's intentional behaviour, but I don't have a problem with it - I don't think a human GM should be able to sign 100% of the FAs he wants.

[le receveur]

thanks. yeah i have no problem, more funny for once to find something where AI has advantage. i can't say i ever saw it on international, actually i find AI really bad with International in my current Dynasty where even when i decide to be nice, the guys with an actual shot are still unsigned one month later.

the one place i had issues was AI finding out when a FA was ready to sign a minor league deal, but those i don't follow every day, so not sure if i had access to info (obviously AI 'checks' every days)

[RchW]

Originally Posted by hefalumps

EDIT: As the OP pointed out, you do have to check the minor league transaction logs and correlate them with the major league transaction logs, as sometimes a player will be released by a ML team and then get signed by a mL team on the same day.

I'm not disputing what you both see. My point is that the conclusion (the release then signing) cannot happen unless the game flips to the next day. If you submit a contract offer that day you should be able to prevent the quick signing.

Any other result is a bug.

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by RchW

I'm not disputing what you both see. My point is that the conclusion (the release then signing) cannot happen unless the game flips to the next day. If you submit a contract offer that day you should be able to prevent the quick signing.

Any other result is a bug.

as i didn't realise this would be considered a bug, not a quirk, i didn't save it then, but make sure i will next time

[RchW]

Originally Posted by le receveur

as i didn't realise this would be considered a bug, not a quirk, i didn't save it then, but make sure i will next time

It's only a bug if you don't have the opportunity to make a contract offer upon his release.

This is why I asked for the transaction screenshot. I'm still not convinced that a release and signing with two different teams on one transaction line could ever occur.

See hefalumps post. He shows two lines in his examples.

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by RchW

It's only a bug if you don't have the opportunity to make a contract offer upon his release.

This is why I asked for the transaction screenshot. I'm still not convinced that a release and signing with two different teams on one transaction line could ever occur.

See hefalumps post. He shows two lines in his examples.

hence the request for where i would find historical transactions on releases or minor league signings, since this is prior to last october

[Gil Thorp]

The AI needs all the help it can get.

[le receveur]

i'll keep looking for the one i saw but look at the Aug 1 transaction on this one. i really doubt i saw when KC releases Pedro

edit: i also feel bad for poor Pedro. this is worse than Caspar

[le receveur]

this one is still in the Tiger's org:

[hefalumps]

Originally Posted by RchW

I'm not disputing what you both see. My point is that the conclusion (the release then signing) cannot happen unless the game flips to the next day. If you submit a contract offer that day you should be able to prevent the quick signing.

Any other result is a bug.

Well I can't submit a contract for the player until he gets released, and the release and signing is happening during the "next day" press so that I never have a chance at making an offer.

It's not a huge deal to me, as like I said this is mostly for fringe players who are career minor leaguers. But occasionally there's a good utility/depth/speed type guy that I miss out on because of this. It'd be nice if OOTP had a rule that a player had to stay a free agent for at least one day (i.e. pressing of "next day" twice) so that human GMs had a chance to make an offer.

[RchW]

OK that's a player history not a transaction log. However the most important point is that he was a FA for 20 days before the strange August 1. I'm not sure you have any complaint when the guy was a FA for 20 days. Plenty of opportunity to sign him.

August 1 is a problem (bug??). Unlike Football Manager OOTP does not have partial day sims. It seems to me you can't have multiple transactions on one day where the player does not appear on the FA list when he is released.

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by RchW

OK that's a player history not a transaction log. However the most important point is that he was a FA for 20 days before the strange August 1. I'm not sure you have any complaint when the guy was a FA for 20 days. Plenty of opportunity to sign him.

August 1 is a problem (bug??). Unlike Football Manager OOTP does not have partial day sims. It seems to me you can't have multiple transactions on one day where the player does not appear on the FA list when he is released.

you wanted examples of signing the same days, i find 2, and they are not good enough for you. oh well...

and i asked you to point me to historical release and minor league level signings. still no reply on that account


added: sorry that was a bit harsh. as i said had i know it would be considered a 'bug' i would have saved it then. to me it was more a novelty..

[RchW]

Originally Posted by le receveur

you wanted examples of signing the same days, i find 2, and they are not good enough for you. oh well...

Whoa baby, I don't have a horse in this race and I'm sorry if you took my questioning as some sort of dismissal. That was not my intention. All I can say is if a guy is a FA for 20 days and generates no interest then what happens to him on the 21st day can't be a big deal for you. You had 20 days to see him.

In my defense I've repeatedly said that multiple transactions on one day is a bug. I don't know what else you would have me say.

Originally Posted by le receveur

and i asked you to point me to historical release and minor league level signings. still no reply on that account

Well if you read my first post; I see all signings releases etc in my league transactions log. Again what else can I say? That's how things work in my leagues. It's quite possible that I have missed some of these buggy transactions. Now that we both know it's a bug, let's report it and hope that Markus will fix it.


I'll bow out now. Sorry for any misunderstanding my questions created.