More ER than Rs allowed by pitcher

bopol · 11-23-2013, 03:53 PM

Anyone seen this before?

3 ERs but only 1 R allowed?

slugga27 · 11-23-2013, 05:19 PM

It does seem strange, but it's hard to tell what went wrong without viewing the game log. Can you post it?

JohnHoward · 11-23-2013, 06:22 PM

Look for balks and wild pitches in the game log. I am wondering if the runs were charged to Jennings because they were his baserunners but the earned runs got charged to Salgado because of a balk or wild pitch. Either way it is still wrong and needs to be fixed; I'm just trouble-shooting here.

slugga27 · 11-23-2013, 06:27 PM

Also, the linescore, or at least the FINAL score, would help. Did the opposing team score a total of 8 runs, or 10 runs? The lack of information makes it difficult to help.

bopol · 11-23-2013, 11:44 PM

Sorry, no game log. It's a minor league team, so I apparently don't save them. It looks like the two runner Salgado inherited scored, while the two runners he left on, Gonzales stranded. FWIW, Salgado didn't have any balks or WPs listed (playoff game so it was easy to look up).

Personally, I find it a pretty interesting little bug...

I remember that there was a rule back in the 80s that caused team ER not to add up to the sum of individual ER, but I can't remember exactly what. I think it was a 2 out rule where a relief pitcher couldn't benefit from a previous error (i.e., suppose an error extends an inning and a relief pitcher comes on with a runner on 1st and 2 outs and gives up a homerun. The two runs for the team would be unearned but the run given up by the relief pitcher would be earned.

slugga27 · 11-23-2013, 11:59 PM

What appears to have happened is that Salgado was charged with two of the runs resulting from the inherited runners scoring, which shouldn't have happened. That said, this is the first time I've seen this and am pretty sure it's a very rare occurrence in OOTP.

Markus Heinsohn · 11-24-2013, 03:36 AM

Wow, I've never seen anything like this. Too bad that the game log is no longer available.

Brick · 11-26-2013, 11:32 AM

Might this be related to the scoring rule that results in individual earned runs not adding up to the team earned runs?

It goes like this: The first two batters in an inning are retired. Then the third batter reaches on an error. Then the pitcher falls apart and allows some unearned runs. He is replaced by a reliever who allows some more runs himself. The reliever's run are earned for him, but unearned for the team.

tejdog1 · 11-27-2013, 11:53 AM

Isn't there a rule where runs can be earned/unearned against a pitcher, but the opposite for the team? Could that be it?

D-BacksJosh · 11-27-2013, 12:03 PM

Maybe MLB Rule 10.16 can shed some light on this.

An earned run is a run for which a pitcher is held accountable. In determining earned runs, the official scorer shall reconstruct the inning without the errors (which exclude catcher's interference) and passed balls, giving the benefit of the doubt always to the pitcher in determining which bases would have been reached by runners had there been errorless play. For the purpose of determining earned runs, an intentional base on balls, regardless of the circumstances, shall be construed in exactly the same manner as any other base on balls.

More info here: MLB Rule 10.16

11-23-2013, 03:53 PM	#1
bopol Bat Boy Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 6	More ER than Rs allowed by pitcher Anyone seen this before? 3 ERs but only 1 R allowed? Attached Images

11-23-2013, 11:44 PM	#5
bopol Bat Boy Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 6	Sorry, no game log. It's a minor league team, so I apparently don't save them. It looks like the two runner Salgado inherited scored, while the two runners he left on, Gonzales stranded. FWIW, Salgado didn't have any balks or WPs listed (playoff game so it was easy to look up). Personally, I find it a pretty interesting little bug... I remember that there was a rule back in the 80s that caused team ER not to add up to the sum of individual ER, but I can't remember exactly what. I think it was a 2 out rule where a relief pitcher couldn't benefit from a previous error (i.e., suppose an error extends an inning and a relief pitcher comes on with a runner on 1st and 2 outs and gives up a homerun. The two runs for the team would be unearned but the run given up by the relief pitcher would be earned. Attached Images Last edited by bopol; 11-23-2013 at 11:50 PM. Reason: adding additional info requested by other

11-24-2013, 03:36 AM	#7
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	Wow, I've never seen anything like this. Too bad that the game log is no longer available. __________________ Buy Out of the Park Baseball 25 now! Download OOTP Go 25 for iOS Download OOTP Go 25 for Android

11-26-2013, 11:32 AM	#8
Brick Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: A legend in my own mind Posts: 289	Might this be related to the scoring rule that results in individual earned runs not adding up to the team earned runs? It goes like this: The first two batters in an inning are retired. Then the third batter reaches on an error. Then the pitcher falls apart and allows some unearned runs. He is replaced by a reliever who allows some more runs himself. The reliever's run are earned for him, but unearned for the team. __________________ Big Sky Baseball League - San Bernardino Stallions Baseball Back to the Future - St. Louis Cardinals Washington Nationals Silver Screen Test

11-27-2013, 11:53 AM	#9
tejdog1 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Danbury, CT Posts: 1,654	Isn't there a rule where runs can be earned/unearned against a pitcher, but the opposite for the team? Could that be it? __________________ It's amazing How you make your face just like a wall How you take your heart and turn it off How I turn my head and lose it all And it's unnerving How just one move puts me by myself There you go just trusting someone else Now I know I put us both through hell ~Matchbox 20, "Leave" Everyone knows it's spelled "TRAID", not trade

11-23-2013, 05:19 PM	#2
slugga27 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,272	It does seem strange, but it's hard to tell what went wrong without viewing the game log. Can you post it?

11-23-2013, 06:22 PM	#3
JohnHoward All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 624	Look for balks and wild pitches in the game log. I am wondering if the runs were charged to Jennings because they were his baserunners but the earned runs got charged to Salgado because of a balk or wild pitch. Either way it is still wrong and needs to be fixed; I'm just trouble-shooting here.

11-23-2013, 06:27 PM	#4
slugga27 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,272	Also, the linescore, or at least the FINAL score, would help. Did the opposing team score a total of 8 runs, or 10 runs? The lack of information makes it difficult to help.

11-23-2013, 11:59 PM	#6
slugga27 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,272	What appears to have happened is that Salgado was charged with two of the runs resulting from the inherited runners scoring, which shouldn't have happened. That said, this is the first time I've seen this and am pretty sure it's a very rare occurrence in OOTP.

11-27-2013, 12:03 PM	#10
D-BacksJosh Banned Join Date: May 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 875	Maybe MLB Rule 10.16 can shed some light on this. An earned run is a run for which a pitcher is held accountable. In determining earned runs, the official scorer shall reconstruct the inning without the errors (which exclude catcher's interference) and passed balls, giving the benefit of the doubt always to the pitcher in determining which bases would have been reached by runners had there been errorless play. For the purpose of determining earned runs, an intentional base on balls, regardless of the circumstances, shall be construed in exactly the same manner as any other base on balls. More info here: MLB Rule 10.16