Change Number of Innings

[TheMattVid]

I would be greatly interested in buying next year's addition of the game if they allowed you to change the number of innings in a game when creating a custom league.

[RchW]

Great idea in principle but it seems to me that you would need to create an entirely new game engine for game lengths different than 9 innings. Shorter or longer games would have radically different pitcher use strategies. Batter value/usage would also be changed.

For example a 7-inning standard game could produce two radically different pitching strategies. Paired pitching with 4 innings or 2X through the lineup for the starter and his twin or leverage existing 5-6 inning starters and use paired lefty righty setup/closers for 2-innings. Either way you'd likely have 2 or 3 less pitchers per team. I have no idea what longer games would need.

Shorter games would likely push batter strategy away from high power high K to OBP and speed. With one less (at least) PA per game getting runners on base and moving them might work better. You might see IBB used more often on power hitters just to rob them of a HR opportunity. For example in a 7-inning game I'd consider walking Miguel Cabrera any time he came up with the bases empty and less than 2 out after his first PA.

As with pitching I have no idea what longer games would do.

Intriguing idea but a long shot for any realistic application IMO.

[blasek0]

I like the idea, but as RchW has clearly laid out, it would take incredible amounts of work to add this feature. Plus, as Marcus tries to optimize the AI for it, there is no real-world data showing what the likely best ways to handle a 7 inning game are. Everything changes, in ways we aren't really sure of, and AI doesn't handle change as well as a human does.

[BoSoxFan]

Originally Posted by RchW

Great idea in principle but it seems to me that you would need to create an entirely new game engine for game lengths different than 9 innings. Shorter or longer games would have radically different pitcher use strategies. Batter value/usage would also be changed.

For example a 7-inning standard game could produce two radically different pitching strategies. Paired pitching with 4 innings or 2X through the lineup for the starter and his twin or leverage existing 5-6 inning starters and use paired lefty righty setup/closers for 2-innings. Either way you'd likely have 2 or 3 less pitchers per team. I have no idea what longer games would need.

Shorter games would likely push batter strategy away from high power high K to OBP and speed. With one less (at least) PA per game getting runners on base and moving them might work better. You might see IBB used more often on power hitters just to rob them of a HR opportunity. For example in a 7-inning game I'd consider walking Miguel Cabrera any time he came up with the bases empty and less than 2 out after his first PA.

As with pitching I have no idea what longer games would do.

Intriguing idea but a long shot for any realistic application IMO.

This. Rosters would have to be completely revamped for the number of innings their pitchers would have to go. If it was 6-7 innings, they probably wouldn't even need a bullpen, while if it was 12 or so, they would need a heck of a lot more relievers, especially if they were going to play the matchup game.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by blasek0

I... there is no real-world data showing what the likely best ways to handle a 7 inning game are.

Well, not entirely. The minors leagues have for some time now used the rule that both games of a regular doubleheader are only 7 innings long. (A game played after the completion of a suspended game is also reduced to 7 innings.)

Which suggests to me a real-world aspect that would be nice to have: the ability to set a regular doubleheader as either two 9-inning games, a 9-inning game followed by a 7-inning game, or two 7-inning games. (These are the different rules the minors have followed over the years.)

Allowing a game still tied after a set number of innings to end as a tie would be nice too. (This is common in the Asian baseball leagues, and is used in the Arizona Fall League as well.)

[blasek0]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Well, not entirely. The minors leagues have for some time now used the rule that both games of a regular doubleheader are only 7 innings long. (A game played after the completion of a suspended game is also reduced to 7 innings.)

However, the minors in the US are not managed as though the manager's goal is to win the game. The game is managed with the primary goal being player development. Starters are on strict pitch counts, often with artificial increases to them (IE: you didn't throw enough changeups last time out, so we're pulling you 15 pitches sooner). Bullpen usage is mostly scheduled rather than matchup based.

The way the game is handled in the minors isn't terribly indicative of how the same game would be handled in the majors. It's a start, but it's not all that helpful.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by RchW

Great idea in principle but it seems to me that you would need to create an entirely new game engine for game lengths different than 9 innings. Shorter or longer games would have radically different pitcher use strategies. Batter value/usage would also be changed.

For example a 7-inning standard game could produce two radically different pitching strategies. Paired pitching with 4 innings or 2X through the lineup for the starter and his twin or leverage existing 5-6 inning starters and use paired lefty righty setup/closers for 2-innings. Either way you'd likely have 2 or 3 less pitchers per team. I have no idea what longer games would need.

Shorter games would likely push batter strategy away from high power high K to OBP and speed. With one less (at least) PA per game getting runners on base and moving them might work better. You might see IBB used more often on power hitters just to rob them of a HR opportunity. For example in a 7-inning game I'd consider walking Miguel Cabrera any time he came up with the bases empty and less than 2 out after his first PA.

As with pitching I have no idea what longer games would do.

Intriguing idea but a long shot for any realistic application IMO.

You're clearly right, but it would be very cool to be able to mess with the fundamental rules of baseball in custom leagues.

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Well, not entirely. The minors leagues have for some time now used the rule that both games of a regular doubleheader are only 7 innings long. (A game played after the completion of a suspended game is also reduced to 7 innings.)

Which suggests to me a real-world aspect that would be nice to have: the ability to set a regular doubleheader as either two 9-inning games, a 9-inning game followed by a 7-inning game, or two 7-inning games. (These are the different rules the minors have followed over the years.)

Allowing a game still tied after a set number of innings to end as a tie would be nice too. (This is common in the Asian baseball leagues, and is used in the Arizona Fall League as well.)

7 inning double-headers and allowing ties are definitely things I would like to see.

[as5680]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

7 inning double-headers and allowing ties are definitely things I would like to see.

I definitely would like to be able to allow ties in Spring Training - my league's record for the longest Spring Training game is 21 innings, and with the starting pitchers having come out of the game after 4, it has a huge (and unnecessary) impact on the bullpen!

If there were an option for different length games, I am sure I would use it at some point as I play almost exclusively fictional leagues and when doing that it is nice to try changing things around now and then. However, I do agree that it would be a huge amount of work to implement and would (probably) be used by a relatively small number of people.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by blasek0

The way the game is handled in the minors isn't terribly indicative of how the same game would be handled in the majors. It's a start, but it's not all that helpful.

Which in turn leads to this question: does OOTP properly recreate the differences between the majors and minors in terms of on- and off-the-field matters? (I already know the answer to the second part, which is 'not really'.)

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Which in turn leads to this question: does OOTP properly recreate the differences between the majors and minors in terms of on- and off-the-field matters? (I already know the answer to the second part, which is 'not really'.)

And the secondary question of "Should it try to?" (which has the answer of "Hell yes").

[Painmantle]

I think this would be awesome, then we would finally get that Little League Quick Start we all so desperately crave

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

You're clearly right, but it would be very cool to be able to mess with the fundamental rules of baseball in custom leagues.



7 inning double-headers and allowing ties are definitely things I would like to see.

I agree!