Backup catchers in the minors

[markprior22]

I wish this could be addressed. On my high A team, I have two catchers. When the AI makes lineups, it leaves backup catcher slot empty. They have the 2nd catcher starting in LF. Went into commissioner mode and removed his LF ability (was only a 3 experience). Had AI set up lineups again, and they have him starting at 1B. I have checked for both the starter and this guy to "force start/use at position" set to catcher. He has 8/8 defense and arm. If he isn't cut out to be a starter, he sure sounds like a great backup with his arm and defensive skills.

If there are two catchers on the roster and you select both to force start/use at catcher, please have the game use them at catcher. They can't afford to be in primary starting lineup at a different position.

Bottom line...EVERY TEAM needs to have a backup catcher in all depth charts.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by markprior22

I wish this could be addressed. On my high A team, I have two catchers. When the AI makes lineups, it leaves backup catcher slot empty. They have the 2nd catcher starting in LF. Went into commissioner mode and removed his LF ability (was only a 3 experience). Had AI set up lineups again, and they have him starting at 1B. I have checked for both the starter and this guy to "force start/use at position" set to catcher. He has 8/8 defense and arm. If he isn't cut out to be a starter, he sure sounds like a great backup with his arm and defensive skills.

If there are two catchers on the roster and you select both to force start/use at catcher, please have the game use them at catcher. They can't afford to be in primary starting lineup at a different position.

Bottom line...EVERY TEAM needs to have a backup catcher in all depth charts.

Setting them both as C in Player Strategy doesn;t help either. What i had to do was set up the OF under Player Strategy and hope teh backup C gets some AB's For my backup C he is only 1 star anyway Very annoying though.

[markprior22]

Is there any way this could be looked at for final patch? My AAA catcher was at 31% when I checked. Backup catcher is being used elsewhere (even though I have "force start/use at position" set at catcher. Even if the AI wants to use backup catcher at other positions, that is fine. However, when he is needed at catcher, he should play. I started using ghost players to help but that apparently does nothing either.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by markprior22

Is there any way this could be looked at for final patch? My AAA catcher was at 31% when I checked. Backup catcher is being used elsewhere (even though I have "force start/use at position" set at catcher. Even if the AI wants to use backup catcher at other positions, that is fine. However, when he is needed at catcher, he should play. I started using ghost players to help but that apparently does nothing either.

If you have your backup C as a force start he is not starting any place else. Do you also have your starting C as a force start?

[RchW]

Originally Posted by markprior22

Is there any way this could be looked at for final patch? My AAA catcher was at 31% when I checked. Backup catcher is being used elsewhere (even though I have "force start/use at position" set at catcher. Even if the AI wants to use backup catcher at other positions, that is fine. However, when he is needed at catcher, he should play. I started using ghost players to help but that apparently does nothing either.

My workaround is to keep 3 catchers on each team and disable AI promotion for all of them. If required I promote and demote manually.

This is a long time annoying problem.

[ThatSeventiesGuy]

My experience is that low-level minor league teams either have A) No more than one or two catchers, or B) More catchers than you know what to do with, like six or more. You have to keep an eye on your MiLB teams to make sure they're distributing catchers evenly.

[markprior22]

Originally Posted by The Game

If you have your backup C as a force start he is not starting any place else. Do you also have your starting C as a force start?

Yes, I have "force start/play" for both set to catcher. Doesn't help. Like I said in an earlier example, the backup can be a decent catcher and a very crappy 1B or OF and the AI will basically ignore his catching ability. Seems like something is just wrong in this area.

Edit-Just to clarify your post...the setting is "force start/play at" position. That, to me, is saying if you have someone else listed as starter, you want this guy to be the backup at that position. This setting isn't just for forcing starts..it's also managing primary positions.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by markprior22

Yes, I have "force start/play" for both set to catcher. Doesn't help. Like I said in an earlier example, the backup can be a decent catcher and a very crappy 1B or OF and the AI will basically ignore his catching ability. Seems like something is just wrong in this area.

Edit-Just to clarify your post...the setting is "force start/play at" position. That, to me, is saying if you have someone else listed as starter, you want this guy to be the backup at that position. This setting isn't just for forcing starts..it's also managing primary positions.

My game crashed when I tried setting both my C's as force start. So apparently I can't test it. I have read other threads that yeah one will be the starter the other will not be. It would be nice to have 2 players listed at the same position. I tend to carry 3 C's. For my main league i only have AAA. For other leagues i play with multiple minors i may force start one guy and dont care about the backup.

[gosensgo101]

It would be nice if the game could just reshuffle the defensive alignment for a day when a player at a position with no backup is tired.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by gosensgo101

It would be nice if the game could just reshuffle the defensive alignment for a day when a player at a position with no backup is tired.

Markus can't win. If there is no backup listed (there should be if you really want that backup to play) and the AI moved players around willy nilly, people would be whining about their meticulously designed lineups being ignored. I know I was one of them.

The issue with catchers is that the AI should treat them as a special case and the backup C should never start elsewhere unless there is an injury. If the AI evaluation has the backup C ranked as a better 1B than other candidates he will start.

A do not start at X position check box would be useful. That way you could block him from starting but not stop the AI from using him when needed in-game.

[gosensgo101]

Originally Posted by RchW

Markus can't win. If there is no backup listed (there should be if you really want that backup to play) and the AI moved players around willy nilly, people would be whining about their meticulously designed lineups being ignored. I know I was one of them.

The issue with catchers is that the AI should treat them as a special case and the backup C should never start elsewhere unless there is an injury. If the AI evaluation has the backup C ranked as a better 1B than other candidates he will start.

A do not start at X position check box would be useful. That way you could block him from starting but not stop the AI from using him when needed in-game.

I don't like the idea of keeping the backup catcher on the bench when he's the best option at another position.

Perhaps the catcher should be a special case where you're allowed to set a backup who is starting elsewhere?

That way, if the backup catcher is also your starting first baseman, when the starting catcher is tired your backup catcher would catch and the backup first baseman would start at first base.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by gosensgo101

I don't like the idea of keeping the backup catcher on the bench when he's the best option at another position.

Show me a team with only 2 catchers that also starts one at a different position for any more than a few games. That's an emergency not a strategy or good roster management. In the minors which is the subject of the discussion a backup catcher who is the better option at another position would become the starter at that position and a backup catcher would be found for the rare occasions he is needed. A lot of minor league catchers stop being catchers in real life for that very reason. I've developed a few in OOTP as well.

Originally Posted by gosensgo101

Perhaps the catcher should be a special case where you're allowed to set a backup who is starting elsewhere.

You can do this now. Does it work as intended? Not sure, but I've done it. The OP was referring to AI teams. I'm thinking that the slot is empty in AI teams due to some required logic maybe to prevent crashes.

Originally Posted by gosensgo101

That way, if the backup catcher is also your starting first baseman, when the starting catcher is tired your backup catcher would catch and the backup first baseman would start at first base.

If your backup catcher is your best 1B and not good enough to catch every day would logic not dictate that you find a backup catcher instead of using a rusty backup who isn't catching anymore? Why would you weaken the team at two positions instead of one?

[gosensgo101]

Originally Posted by RchW

Show me a team with only 2 catchers that also starts one at a different position for any more than a few games. That's an emergency not a strategy or good roster management. In the minors which is the subject of the discussion a backup catcher who is the better option at another position would become the starter at that position and a backup catcher would be found for the rare occasions he is needed. A lot of minor league catchers stop being catchers in real life for that very reason. I've developed a few in OOTP as well.

Just this year Cleveland has had Yan Gomes and Carlos Santana combine to start 230 games between catcher, first base and DH. They have only had 2 games started by other catchers.

Originally Posted by RchW

You can do this now. Does it work as intended? Not sure, but I've done it. The OP was referring to AI teams. I'm thinking that the slot is empty in AI teams due to some required logic maybe to prevent crashes.

The game doesn't recognize backups who are starters at other positions.

Originally Posted by RchW

If your backup catcher is your best 1B and not good enough to catch every day would logic not dictate that you find a backup catcher instead of using a rusty backup who isn't catching anymore? Why would you weaken the team at two positions instead of one?

This is often the case, but not always. If a team has two good hitting catchers at a level they will try to get them at bats at other positions.

[markprior22]

Originally Posted by gosensgo101

The game doesn't recognize backups who are starters at other positions.

This is the problem in a nutshell. I don't mind if the AI wants to use my backup catcher at DH, 1B, etc but they need to play them at catcher when starter is worn out.

Also...I haven't even looked at the AI teams (afraid of what I might see). I'm referring to my minor league teams that are controlled by AI mgr. What I've done so far is check the catchers every so often and if I see one who needs a rest, I use the "rest for X days" setting and force a game or two off. Shouldn't have to do that though. I still think something is off. If a guy is at 39% due to fatigue and there is a positional backup on the team, he should be used.

Also..I've set my rosters to 28 at minor league levels to insure that there should be plenty of slots for bullpen, backups. I feel I've done everything I can.

[Pdubya64]

To make matters worse, being tired or exhausted IIRC increases the likelyhood of injury to the player, not to mention the effect on their play.
Amazing how something fairly straight-forward to us humans is so hard to replicate in an artificial intelligence (not intended as a criticism of Markus btw).

Part of it may be the issue of "how much processing time do you allot the AI in the game?" Not enough and you get issues like this at times. Too much and players will complain it takes too long for the game to update or it's too slow and irritating. Don't know what the answer is unfortunately.

[Leo_The_Lip]

I'd simply like to see all minor league teams carry 3 catchers.

Although the AI would likely start all 3 every game

[RchW]

Originally Posted by gosensgo101

Just this year Cleveland has had Yan Gomes and Carlos Santana combine to start 230 games between catcher, first base and DH. They have only had 2 games started by other catchers.

Good point but it is still rare and Cleveland were incredibly lucky that neither got injured.

Originally Posted by gosensgo101

This is often the case, but not always. If a team has two good hitting catchers at a level they will try to get them at bats at other positions.

It's not very likely that an organization would have two legitimate starting catcher prospects at the same level. It's also unlikely that they would ask a legitimate catching prospect to play another position anyway close to full time or even half time. If they did it would suggest that his future is not as a catcher. If neither was a legitimate prospect then I could see it and it would make sense.

For good prospects they would have them play at different levels or different teams at a low level or possibly trade one to fill a need elsewhere.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by RchW

A do not start at X position check box would be useful. That way you could block him from starting but not stop the AI from using him when needed in-game.

I've also been pulling since OOTP12 for a "Force Start: Bench" option that would force the AI to use a player as a backup. Either suggestion would help the situation.

[Painmantle]

I have minor league teams in my online leagues that have 3,4 or even 5 catchers that have this exact issue. And there is almost always 2 or more available catchers sitting on the bench yet the Starter keeps playing , right now one is sitting at 14% stamina... I have found the only way to prevent this is with 7-day lineups and it seems like sometimes that doesn't work. I'm going to start tracking this more thoroughly cause I'm having the same issue with a guy who was a Catcher/First baseman and he is constantly exhausted and not only is his position changed to 1B but that is where he is listed in the Lineup/depth chart. This team has 2 other 1B's on it who never play

[RchW]

We must have different settings. I put 3 catchers on all my farm teams and it seems to eliminate the issue. The only time it happened it was buggy as one of the catchers had an uncleared DtD injury.