AI not signing draft picks

[le receveur]

i had noticed a high number of first rounders not signing (higher than experience under the current CBA system), and it worried me especially for team in rebuilding phase losing one year of development.

So i use god power, and forced offers on the prospects, always meeting demands if the team had the money. When i do this players always sign for me. I notice that prospects still don't sign on the AI team half the time even when i intervene (and i cant play god after because i have no way to remove the comp draft pick the following year). im curious why the intervention doesnt affect. it's almost as if AI had decided this guy is not signing before,

[Lukas Berger]

Yeah, the draft signings in OOTP are kind of topsy turvy compared to the real draft.

In real life nearly all of the early round picks sign while few late round picks sign. In OOTP all of the late round picks sign and many of the early picks don't.

Hopefully this will be improved sometime soon.

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Yeah, the draft signings in OOTP are kind of topsy turvy compared to the real draft.

In real life nearly all of the early round picks sign while few late round picks sign. In OOTP all of the late round picks sign and many of the early picks don't.

Hopefully this will be improved sometime soon.

yeah, and i figured ok this is a different 'world' so fine... i just don't get why me playing god doesn't work there. it works when i think a guy released would be a good pick up for a rebuilding team, when a veteran needs a job in AAA and would be good back up for a contender, when i 'correct' an unfair trade...

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by le receveur

yeah, and i figured ok this is a different 'world' so fine... i just don't get why me playing god doesn't work there. it works when i think a guy released would be a good pick up for a rebuilding team, when a veteran needs a job in AAA and would be good back up for a contender, when i 'correct' an unfair trade...

No idea on that. Maybe the lowball ai offer somehow overrides your better offer

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

No idea on that. Maybe the lowball ai offer somehow overrides you better offer

thinking about that you are probably right... i think even the ones that signed were at a different $$$ than my full offers... i'll take note next draft..

[injury log]

Oui, le receveur, I've seen that too. Even in Commish mode, you can't force AI teams to offer contracts to draft picks. It must be a bug. There's one (annoying) workaround: quit your GM job, get hired by the AI team, offer the contracts, wait until the players all sign, then quit again and rejoin your previous team. That's the only way I've found to make sure the draft picks of an AI team sign, but obviously you can't do that for every team.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Yeah, the draft signings in OOTP are kind of topsy turvy compared to the real draft.

In real life nearly all of the early round picks sign while few late round picks sign. In OOTP all of the late round picks sign and many of the early picks don't.

Hopefully this will be improved sometime soon.

Has this been entered into the bug queue?

[RchW]

The entire module seems unrealistic. Even when I have a perennial winner with lots of money all of the players are "hard" to sign. Negotiation doesnt exist. Players will return to the draft over $10-$20K.

There is a disconnect between player demands and the scouting report. What would make me give a 20/20 suspect with no potential in any skill $1.6M? This is what my 16th round draft pick wanted recently. I don't expect guarantees but big ticket draft choices must have recognizable potential that justifies the asking price. Otherwise the process is useless.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by endgame

Has this been entered into the bug queue?

As a section of my (and Ian's) comprehensive draft overhaul proposals, yes.

It doesn't have a PT of its very own though. Should it?

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by RchW

The entire module seems unrealistic. Even when I have a perennial winner with lots of money all of the players are "hard" to sign. Negotiation doesnt exist. Players will return to the draft over $10-$20K.

There is a disconnect between player demands and the scouting report. What would make me give a 20/20 suspect with no potential in any skill $1.6M? This is what my 16th round draft pick wanted recently. I don't expect guarantees but big ticket draft choices must have recognizable potential that justifies the asking price. Otherwise the process is useless.

Agreed to some extent.

IRL there are always guys in the 200-500 top draft prospects range who want way more than they're worth to sign and end up being undrafted and going to college, often to be drafted after their college careers. So it's not entirely unrealistic for a 20/20 guy to ask for a prohibitively big bonus. Still there is a great deal about the draft's financial model that needs work.

[injury log]

Originally Posted by RchW

Even when I have a perennial winner with lots of money all of the players are "hard" to sign.

I agree there are problems with the draft signing system, but this isn't one of them. Signability shouldn't have anything to do with whether a team is a winner or a loser. I can't think of a single real life player who has refused to sign with a team (or who has wanted a larger bonus) because that team isn't a winner - not only are the team's fortunes likely to change by the time the draftee reaches the Majors, but a losing team is also more likely to offer opportunities to young players at the big league level. If anything, losing teams should have an advantage over winning teams when signing picks, though I think signability should just be completely independent of team performance. It's not right now - losing teams have a disadvantage - which is one thing that needs fixing.

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Agreed to some extent.

IRL there are always guys in the 200-500 top draft prospects range who want way more than they're worth to sign and end up being undrafted and going to college, often to be drafted after their college careers. So it's not entirely unrealistic for a 20/20 guy to ask for a prohibitively big bonus. Still there is a great deal about the draft's financial model that needs work.

have to agree with this, everyone who i've seen with such demands are HS who then go off to college. i see them as having a scholarship or realising that due to limited skills they are way better with an education, but hey if someone will give them $1.6M they will skip...i would. :-)

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by le receveur

have to agree with this, everyone who i've seen with such demands are HS who then go off to college. i see them as having a scholarship or realising that due to limited skills they are way better with an education, but hey if someone will give them $1.6M they will skip...i would. :-)

Exactly. There are always a lot of this these guys irl. Most end up being drafted out of college, some even go very high although some end up falling off the radar as well.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Agreed to some extent.

IRL there are always guys in the 200-500 top draft prospects range who want way more than they're worth to sign and end up being undrafted and going to college, often to be drafted after their college careers. So it's not entirely unrealistic for a 20/20 guy to ask for a prohibitively big bonus. Still there is a great deal about the draft's financial model that needs work.

Not sure a player who is not a consensus projection as an MLB player would have any leverage at all. He certainly won't be making demands. I know a guy picked 52nd out of high school and the negotiations consisted of "sign this 2nd round package". He was Texas HS Pitcher of the year and he had no leverage other than College. The package for early round HS players always includes a paid 4 year College ride if you don't make it. That kind of tilts the risk reward steeply towards turning pro. I'd be afraid to cross the street at College for 4 years if I turned that down.

My point was that OOTP strains credulity when player demand doesn't match his potential and scouting report. No-hopers and minor league filler don't make any demands.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by RchW

Not sure a player who is not a consensus projection as an MLB player would have any leverage at all. He certainly won't be making demands. I know a guy picked 52nd out of high school and the negotiations consisted of "sign this 2nd round package". He was Texas HS Pitcher of the year and he had no leverage other than College. The package for early round HS players always includes a paid 4 year College ride if you don't make it. That kind of tilts the risk reward steeply towards turning pro. I'd be afraid to cross the street at College for 4 years if I turned that down.

My point was that OOTP strains credulity when player demand doesn't match his potential and scouting report. No-hopers and minor league filler don't make any demands.

I'm not sure where you're getting that idea from, but it's just not even close to being the case.

Those kind of guys do make demands or else state their intention to go to college, all the time. Not all of them do, some just want to play pro ball and will pretty much take any reasonable offer. But for a great deal of players that's not the case at all.

Take Kyle Serrano or Connor Jones from last years draft as examples. Both were considered to be decent 2nd to 4th round type picks yet they wanted to go to school and both made demands of early 1st round money. Both were drafted around 20 rounds lower than their talent would've dictated. Neither signed and both are now in school. They're only two of the highest profile such players, there are many, many more.

Just take a look at Perfect Game's list of the top 500 HS prospects from 2013. That's well within the range of guys who should be drafted and signed in a 1300 person draft, all things being equal.

Yet around half of them either weren't drafted at all, or were drafted in later rounds and didn't sign.

Why? In nearly every case it was because they wanted to go to school and were demanding far more than teams considered that they were worth to pass up their scholarships. This is something that happens every year, it's not even close to being uncommon, in fact it's pretty much the norm.

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

I'm not sure where you're getting that idea from, but it's just not even close to being the case.

Those kind of guys do make demands or else state their intention to go to college, all the time. Not all of them do, some just want to play pro ball and will pretty much take any reasonable offer. But for a great deal of players that's not the case at all.

Take Kyle Serrano or Connor Jones from last years draft as examples. Both were considered to be decent 2nd to 4th round type picks yet they wanted to go to school and both made demands of early 1st round money. Neither signed and both are now in school. They're only two of the highest profile such players, there are many, many more.

Just take a look at Perfect Game's list of the top 500 HS prospects from 2013. That's well within the range of guys who should be drafted and signed in a 1300 person draft, all things being equal.

Yet around half of them either weren't drafted at all, or were drafted in later rounds and didn't sign.

Why? In nearly every case it was because they wanted to go to school and were demanding far more than teams considered that they were worth to pass up their scholarships. This is something that happens every year, it's not even close to being uncommon, in fact it's pretty much the norm.

which highlights one of the point. the guy told RchW he was committed to college. yet he was still drafted, hoping you could get him for whatever you are ready to offer... sometimes it works see Rowdy Tellez (2nd round money in the 30th round) sometimes it does not Eric Lauer in the 17th (jays example 2013)...

(and by them way Keith Law thinks Rowdy is a 20 prospect... )

[r0nster]

I have seen on my league that first rounders ask for little money while in the later rounds they ask for millions

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by r0nster

I have seen on my league that first rounders ask for little money while in the later rounds they ask for millions

HS kids? can't say i have seen that many in early rounds not get above slot....

['94 EXPOS]

Just my thoughts to weigh in:


1. In relation to the original post issue I checked my league's draft history (8 years old MLB standard settings) and the league averages about 3-4 first round (including supplementals) not signing. I find this to be realistic and acceptable. Is there something in the financials of your league that is stopping teams from signing their top picks?


2. In relation to the bonus demands of marginal players asking for unreasonable bonuses I have found the game to be quite realistic in the way it recreates the draft experience. Numerous players and their advisors value their talents differently than MLB and their scouts do, especially at the high school level. Most of the late round talent that are demanding high bonuses are high schoolers intent on going to college unless an MLB team is willing to pay dearly for their services. The concept of leverage does not really apply. The player is basically saying "I realize you think I am an average prospect but I am actually pretty darn good. I am going to college and you will happily draft me in the early rounds in a year to two....unless you want to cough up big $$$ right now and I will come play for you". As others have posted this is common IRL. The prospect acknowledges they have no financial leverage and are happy to go to school and come back on a future draft day.


As this issue relates to game play when drafting these players: Their bonus demands are made known as part of the pre-draft scouting. If they are demanding 1.5 mil and are 'extremely hard' to sign it is a pretty clear message to me that unless you want to cough up 1.5 mil they are not going to sign. I research each of my picks relentlessly (probably wasting some time as the draft is a crapshoot **as IRL) and often think I have found a late round guy who grades out ahead of the competition and then I notice he wants big $$$ for a bonus. Anytime I have drafted one of these guys they won't budge from their demand.


Overall, I am very happy with the tweaks to the draft in '14 (no more sneaking undervalued MLB ready college players in the 3rd round or building a star studded relief corps in rounds 5-10).


And I would rate the signing aspect of the draft as very good to excellent.

[r0nster]

maybe I am missing the point???? I don't understand why a first rounder (doesn't matter HS or college) might ask for $200,000 when somebody perhaps even 15th round or even 70th would ask for millions ... Usually my last 3 picks asks for 2 to 3 million while my first rounder presumably supposed to be the best of the batch while also logically thinking the rest isn't as good therefore also would not be in a bargaining position to demand so much money /?? first round picks generally can command a bit of money .