State of FHM: July 13

[JeffR]

It's been a while since I've done one of these, so time for a little more thorough report on what's going on with the game right now.

Rather than release the next update next week, we've decided to hold off until the end of the month. While most of the basic elements of the switch to a 2013-14 start are in place and working, the changeover exposed a few problems that we're going to need to deal with, and there are also some unrelated projects - the new in-game view, for example - that are going to need some more time to get to a releasable level (incidentally, all games in playable leagues are now viewable, not just your team's.) Changes to the playable leagues, and the leagues feeding into them, are also posing a bit of a problem at the moment, since new and unexpected announcements about structural and scheduling changes to leagues mean fixing the data, making any necessary coding changes, and then testing them. That should settle down later in the month. Finally, Sebastian's going to take some time off so he's well-rested for the last few weeks before release, since the final crunch will mean a lot of very long workdays without a break.

There is going to be one other major change in plans: multiplayer/online league play. We were planning on implementing that in the next couple of weeks, but that's looking impractical even without considering the delays involved with the new update. Some of the essential elements of online play, notably scouting, the financial system, and team strategies, are going to be worked on heavily in the coming weeks, and it doesn't make sense to build an online system around them, then have to re-do everything after the changes. Fictional leagues are also coming soon, and those really needs to be working properly before we try to make them function in multiplayer.

So, online play is going to be added after release - it'll be the first priority, aside from any serious bug-fixing in the release version, after the game is officially out. That'll likely mean it'll arrive in October, which should fit well with what we intend to do with the database: we're going to freeze a version of it on NHL opening night, and then let you start with either that version or the constantly-updated one, which will be getting changes through the trading deadline in February. The frozen version will probably make more sense for multiplayer leagues, since it'll guarantee a common and stable starting point.

I'm going to start posting a little more information on game systems in the coming weeks; I'll be going through that stuff to get the manual ready anyhow, so once I've edited it up nicely, there's no reason not to let you see it now. First up will be player development; the systems involved with that are pretty much set in stone now, so what I tell you isn't going to change before release.

The database is a bit of a mixed bag at the moment: we've got a few researchers who are working extremely hard and doing a great job, but there are also several who've contributed very little since joining the team and frankly, I don't expect to get much more work out of them.

What I had been hoping to do to help the editing effort was introduce an online version of the database that would be editable by anyone with an approved ID (probably tied to forum ID's.) It would be Wikidatabase, essentially, albeit with significant restrictions on editing - only player data, and the changes wouldn't be "live" - rather, they'd be subject to approval by me or one of the experienced researchers, and would only be applied when we do the regular weekly researcher updates, so they wouldn't override a researcher's work. I think that would be a much more efficient system for both us and the modding community: rather than having people duplicate effort across multiple mods that would only be see by a fraction of the userbase, it would direct the changes much more efficiently and let everyone take advantage of all that hard work. I know I've spent hundreds, if not thousands, of hours over the years editing game databases that no one besides myself ever saw, and that seems like a terrible waste. Let's see what we can accomplish by directing that sort of effort into one place.

That's all well and good, but the problem is getting it set up. To get it running now, I'd need to pull Malte off every other coding task he's doing for a couple of weeks. That's not really an option; there's too much we need to do before release to lose a coder for that length of time. So it'll have to happen after release as well. That leaves the database a little shorthanded for the immediate future. The playable leagues will get plenty of attention between now and release, but the shortfall is likely to show up in the number of new playable leagues we add. Right now, there are only one, maybe two, good candidates, and that may not change for a while (although there's also the possibility of adding some Canadian Junior A leagues one at a time, rather than as a group like the CHL leagues.) Once we get a wider group of people editing, though, that will open up the possibilities enormously. If someone gets, say, the Bulgarian League thoroughly researched, making it playable is relatively simple, and now that we have user-selectable league choices at startup, it can be added to the game in a way that doesn't affect anyone who doesn't want to play with it activated.

Once Sebastian's back, I want to get him working on the overhaul of the AI roster handling, scouting, and trading; that's waited long enough. The more I look at the way things work right now, the bigger the scope of the changes I think are going to be necessary. We've tried incremental improvements, and they're just not getting the job done. I've worked out the way to re-do scouting and player evaluation (including trades), and I think that'll give us a good foundation to work from; the trickier part will be getting the AI to use it in a sensible manner. Without going into too much detail, the heart of the new system will be a move away from evaluating the players with a one-size-fits-all approach, irrespective of their actual function on a team, to one that looks at them more in the context of their specific role. You can see the problems inherent with the first approach in the way the best stay-at-home defencemen are badly overvalued in the game at the moment. After the change they'll be looked at a little more realistically, since their lack of offensive production limits the role they can play on their teams to, at best, a support role on the top pair or a job on the middle or bottom pairs.

Finally, we'll be beginning more of a marketing push soon; we've done fairly well so far without much beyond very basic social media presences on Facebook and Twitter, and these forums. But we're still largely unknown outside the small community of hardcore sports management game players, and that needs to change for the long-term health of the game. Aside from getting the word out about the game, that also means making it available through means other than downloading directly from us - OOTP has sold well on Amazon the last few years, so that's one obvious place to go, but there are several more we'll try as well. The more visible we are and the bigger a user base we build now, the more we'll be able to do in the future.

[zyberianwarrior]

no need to jam everything in at once.....that is where the bugs come from. As for marketing better find someway to hit the sites like NHL, KHL and so on....EA is the king in the states but I hate unrealistic joystick happy games (and stupid features like that cabbie clown picking a fight with Marty)

[Merla]

Thanks a lot for the update, Jeff. Will there be any screenshots of f.e. the new in-game view? Can't wait to see it..

Regarding the database, I'm still offering my help with the Swedish leagues. There's nothing at all happening with it (and haven't been for a very long time, to be honest). And the "Sweden, Denmark and Norway" thread is just completely dead (no reply since May(!)).
I've got three weeks off work now so I do have a lot of spare time in getting it as accurate as possible.

[dejaqwho]

Don't worry about window dressing. I think most of the hardcore sim fans who paid for the alpha version would play the game in a DOS interface as long as AI is good.

These people who come up and say I want Swiss league, SEL etc. Ignore them, please. Make this first version just NHL with the other leagues only as background.

Regarding Data issues, it's not a big deal if a player is wrong height/weight position, we can all fix that in the in game editor ourselves, another low priority task...All and Maximum effort on AI please.

For marketing did you guys consider putting the game on Steams greenlight, even if it doesn't get enough votes, at least its exposing you to potential customers? For marketing, HF boards are #1 hockey forum in the world.

[Alessandro]

Originally Posted by dejaqwho

These people who come up and say I want Swiss league, SEL etc. Ignore them, please. Make this first version just NHL with the other leagues only as background.

Good one...

[grimmo20]

The Australian league is obviously non-playable but does that mean that real players will still not be used/researched in the initial release?
Im not sure if anyone is working on that league already but I would be more than happy to help out in anyway possible. I might be also able to look at the players from the New Zealand and their league if you are interested.

[hockeyheadlines]

Originally Posted by dejaqwho

These people who come up and say I want Swiss league, SEL etc. Ignore them, please. Make this first version just NHL with the other leagues only as background.

I certainly have to agree with this. I think your priority needs to be the NHL first. Give us a robust and stable simulation of the NHL and after release, add the minor, historical and fantasy leagues.

Not releasing any updates in the following two weeks has me wondering if you'll make your deadline. You'll only have a month to finalize the game. Regardless, I wish you best of luck in getting it done on time and a resounding success at the cash register.

[Jabez54]

While I love to see ALL leagues, with options ... but I would rather see one league in top form and bug free ... the way I have it vision for FHM, as the "robust and stable simulation of the NHL" foundation ... then from there, slowly adding all the options, in small steps ... this is the way how Classic Games get started ... I can see how easily one can get distracted, from all the beautiful responses, to make this Game - The Gold Standard Hockey Game ... but we can't please ALL the folks, all the time ... so ditto with keeping it simple at the beginning ... build it slowly and solidly, they will come ...

[archibalduk]

I don't think disabling playable leagues will have any effect on the playability or otherwise of the game or the NHL.

The non-NHL leagues are playable already. I can't imagine OOTP wanting to disable them. There's no reason do so. It won't make the game "better" in any way.

On a different topic, I'm really looking forward to the player evaluation improvements so that players are valued taking into account more skills rather than just on how good the player is as a stay at home d-man or offensive forward.

[hockeyfanatic]

I would be willing to research leagues, just don't know how I would go about it.

[Alessandro]

There are some players - including me - who don't give a **** about the NHL. I understand it's a minority, but still. I am working hard on KHL research to have it playable and in good shape, so, dear dejaqwho and Jabez, do you think now the devs should tell me "thanks for your good work but the KHL is done cuz NHL fanboys dont want you anymo'"?

[Gorane]

I dont care much about the nhl either. And I dont think we're a majority. Og you give a hockey-loving a choise between nhl or their respective national league, i believe many would have chosen their national league..

[Jabez54]

Alessandro ... If I offended you in anyway, I apologize, it was NOT meant to be taken that way ... I do not want your project to be halted, rather I applaud it ... for I was aiming to encourage to just concentrate One League, in the application format, to be sure it is solid, robust and stable enough that it would be the standard and easier to implement to add the rest of the Professional Leagues ... As in OOTP, when it first began back in 99, to where it is currently at ... NO Baseball Games out there, can match what OOTP can do, with all the options and abilities ... aside, I'm more into Fiction with all the Sport Games out there ... for I would certainly be playing KHL vs NHL, with Fictional players ... I do hope I clear that issue up with you ... no hard feelings meant to be here, mate ...

[grimmo20]

Originally Posted by hockeyfanatic

I would be willing to research leagues, just don't know how I would go about it.

Same here...

[hockeyfanatic]

I'd personally love to see international teams playable

[JeffR]

Before the argument gets out of hand: at this point, adding new playable leagues doesn't take away much time from development. If there were something as complex as the NHL or KHL left out there, a multinational professional league with very unique roster and financial rules, it would be too much to take on at this point. But there really isn't. The remaining leagues are generally small and straightforward, e.g. Switzerland has a simple playoff and promotional structure and import rules that can be modeled with current tools. Once the data for it is in, the switch to a playable league requires minimal time.

At the same time, the guys worried about adding more leagues at the expense of fixing bugs and improving stability have a point. At this stage of development, I'm not going to let us get bogged down modeling every rule in each league to perferction. Some things are going to be handled abstractly, if they're going to take too much development time and/or be clumsy and inconvenient for gameplay. I've just done that with the transfer fee/release clause system, which was the source of a lot of player frustration and AI confusion, and that won't be the end of it.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by grimmo20

The Australian league is obviously non-playable but does that mean that real players will still not be used/researched in the initial release?
Im not sure if anyone is working on that league already but I would be more than happy to help out in anyway possible. I might be also able to look at the players from the New Zealand and their league if you are interested.

As it happens, Lazion, our Finnish researcher, just had some free time and used it to fill out the AIHL rosters, so the players will be there. The big issue with making that league playable is the April-to-September schedule; the game's yearly update on July 1 falls right in the middle of that, which isn't going to be workable. But I'd like to see the AIHL (and the Asia League, the other significant league outside Europe and North America) in the game for the sake of broadening our international audience a bit. If moving the start date back to January would be an acceptable compromise, maybe we can do something with it.

[sprague]

could you give us an update as to where work on the gameplay itself is now at

getting scoring levels right over history
penalties
fights and physical players
basically the game and statistical element

thanks

[Afino]

So, online play is going to be added after release - it'll be the first priority, aside from any serious bug-fixing in the release version, after the game is officially out. That'll likely mean it'll arrive in October,

This statement is a little confusing - does this mean the release is pushed back? Or online leagues will not be added until a patch in October?

[grimmo20]

Originally Posted by JeffR

As it happens, Lazion, our Finnish researcher, just had some free time and used it to fill out the AIHL rosters, so the players will be there. The big issue with making that league playable is the April-to-September schedule; the game's yearly update on July 1 falls right in the middle of that, which isn't going to be workable. But I'd like to see the AIHL (and the Asia League, the other significant league outside Europe and North America) in the game for the sake of broadening our international audience a bit. If moving the start date back to January would be an acceptable compromise, maybe we can do something with it.

As an Australian who loves my hockey I'm just stoked that the AIHL is even considered being added, albeit non playable.
I personally don't care what date the league starts and I'm sure most Australians would agree to a compromise in order to increase the chances of the AIHL playable in the future.




Kudos to a great job so far.