Pitching strategy question

c-man · 04-08-2003, 11:50 PM

Okay, so, it's a game with playoff implications:

your starting pitcher is throwing a perfect game through 7 innings, however, the opponent's pitcher is also pitching a 2 hit shut out.

top of the 8th, your pitcher changes color, he's tired, and walks the first batter. you're on the hot seat--what do you do? yank him while he has a no hitter? leave him in and risk losing the game?

hmmmmm....what do you think?

dbacks · 04-09-2003, 12:02 AM

PERSONALLY, and I know many, many will disagree, but if I'm managing, and this is a playoff situation - I yank him. Really depends. You didn't give quite enough details. Game 7 World Series, I yank him. Game 3 of Division Series, and you're up 2-0, I keep him in, but start the bullpen. If it's an important game - don't let individual performances get in the way. If it's not - see what the pitcher has left in his arm.

crackpott · 04-09-2003, 12:04 AM

If the game matters, pull him. Individual glory is a far second to team glory. That said, if the game had minor to no implications, you of course leave him in. But if it might cost you the playoffs... you've gotta pull him.

magicmike · 04-09-2003, 12:49 AM

Also depends what you've got available in the pen. Assuming I have good relievers I'd pull him.

dbacks · 04-09-2003, 01:01 AM

I'd rather take my chances with a mediorcre reliever than a tired starting pitcher. If this is like your ace, he is risking injury out there. Actually, he is when he's healthy, but even more so when he's tired. Unless your best reliever has like a 5+ ERA, and sucks in close/late situations, performance suffers in clutch, then I take my chances. I'll give my SP a few more pitches, but if a runner reaches scoring position, I pull him.

c-man · 04-09-2003, 09:24 PM

it was a regular season game, late in the season, i'm 2 games out of first, playing the team in first place.

I couldn't bring myself to yank the pitcher ( I have a sentimental attachment to this guy, kind of a comeback player), thinking, well if he gives up a hit or another walk, i'll pull him. the next batter slammed a homerun. Lost the game 2-0.

You guys got it right...

dbacks · 04-09-2003, 09:35 PM

I know what you mean, c-man. I've had that happen to me lots of times, where I've got my ace out there, and he's a potential cy-young award winner, and if he just gets through the last inning, even though he's tired, that will bring his ERA down to league-leading, and the same with wins. First batter: walk. Second batter: base hit. Third batter: Three run blast. Lost game. I'm in the process of learning to focus more on what's best for the team instead of what's best for Greg Maddux, or whoever.

Dave Hansen · 04-09-2003, 10:20 PM

Yank him.......! My owner pays me to win.

What I like about the game is the tough choices you have to make in order to win on a consistent basis. This is just one of the many examples you have to manage through.

I have been in similiar situations and found on many occassions that with a pitcher being reported as tired does really mean something! I would think the odds are very small getting through unscathed at LEAST six more batters. Possible...not probable. Strikeouts go down...walks go up...ground ball go down...deep fly balls go up....hard hit balls that use to go for doubles in the alleys now end up in alleys across the street!!! Many a time I try to stretch a SP/MR for one or two more batters in order for pinch hitting considerations in my next at bat. Sometimes I get the bear........sometimes the bear gets me. A lot of factors come into play depending on the situation. That's why I enjoy the game especially in the play mode vs sim. That's why we get paid the big bucks in the manager mode.

lencombs · 04-10-2003, 02:36 AM

if it was the 9th inning I would leave him in there on a short leash any batter reach base less than 2 outs pull him, but since still need 2 innings of work, and the game is tied anyway would bring in relief.
I hate pulling a pitcher pitching well in last inning who just tired, without making opponent prove they can hit him, and have a reliever come in and blow the whole game anyway.

Ragnar · 04-10-2003, 02:37 AM

Your pitcher has a perfect game in the top of the 8th and he's tired? I have never seen that. I have pitcher endurence set to NORMAL. That is the most realistic to me. Yeah pitchers last a bit longer than MLB but not by much. I often have to pull a pitcher in the 6th or 7th. I never have to pull a pitcher with a perfect game or no hitter. And I rarely ever see it in MLB either. But in this game if the pitcher is tired you have to pull him.

04-08-2003, 11:50 PM	#1
c-man Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 130	Pitching strategy question Okay, so, it's a game with playoff implications: your starting pitcher is throwing a perfect game through 7 innings, however, the opponent's pitcher is also pitching a 2 hit shut out. top of the 8th, your pitcher changes color, he's tired, and walks the first batter. you're on the hot seat--what do you do? yank him while he has a no hitter? leave him in and risk losing the game? hmmmmm....what do you think?

04-09-2003, 12:04 AM	#3
crackpott Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,961	If the game matters, pull him. Individual glory is a far second to team glory. That said, if the game had minor to no implications, you of course leave him in. But if it might cost you the playoffs... you've gotta pull him. __________________ Abandoned Planet - Check it out. The photos don't suck anymore.

04-09-2003, 12:49 AM	#4
magicmike Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hawaii Posts: 365	Also depends what you've got available in the pen. Assuming I have good relievers I'd pull him. __________________ aloha and mahalo HCBL Kansas City Royals 2003 AL Central Champs SMLB Houston Astros VLB Anaheim Angels UBL Pittsburgh Pirates "Barry Bonds? I'll tell you what, if he hit a home run off (Bob) Gibson or (Don) Drysdale and stood and admired it, they'd knock that earring out of his ear the next time up." - National League Umpire Doug Harvey

04-09-2003, 09:24 PM	#6
c-man Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 130	here's what I did... it was a regular season game, late in the season, i'm 2 games out of first, playing the team in first place. I couldn't bring myself to yank the pitcher ( I have a sentimental attachment to this guy, kind of a comeback player), thinking, well if he gives up a hit or another walk, i'll pull him. the next batter slammed a homerun. Lost the game 2-0. You guys got it right...

04-10-2003, 02:36 AM	#9
lencombs All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Eureka, Ca Posts: 535	if it was the 9th inning I would leave him in there on a short leash any batter reach base less than 2 outs pull him, but since still need 2 innings of work, and the game is tied anyway would bring in relief. I hate pulling a pitcher pitching well in last inning who just tired, without making opponent prove they can hit him, and have a reliever come in and blow the whole game anyway. __________________ "A passion for statistics is the earmark of a literate people." - Paul Fisher "Baseball isn't statistics. Baseball is (Joe) DiMaggio rounding second." - Jimmy Cannon

04-09-2003, 12:02 AM	#2
dbacks Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,735	PERSONALLY, and I know many, many will disagree, but if I'm managing, and this is a playoff situation - I yank him. Really depends. You didn't give quite enough details. Game 7 World Series, I yank him. Game 3 of Division Series, and you're up 2-0, I keep him in, but start the bullpen. If it's an important game - don't let individual performances get in the way. If it's not - see what the pitcher has left in his arm.

04-09-2003, 01:01 AM	#5
dbacks Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,735	I'd rather take my chances with a mediorcre reliever than a tired starting pitcher. If this is like your ace, he is risking injury out there. Actually, he is when he's healthy, but even more so when he's tired. Unless your best reliever has like a 5+ ERA, and sucks in close/late situations, performance suffers in clutch, then I take my chances. I'll give my SP a few more pitches, but if a runner reaches scoring position, I pull him.

04-09-2003, 09:35 PM	#7
dbacks Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 2,735	I know what you mean, c-man. I've had that happen to me lots of times, where I've got my ace out there, and he's a potential cy-young award winner, and if he just gets through the last inning, even though he's tired, that will bring his ERA down to league-leading, and the same with wins. First batter: walk. Second batter: base hit. Third batter: Three run blast. Lost game. I'm in the process of learning to focus more on what's best for the team instead of what's best for Greg Maddux, or whoever.

04-09-2003, 10:20 PM	#8
Dave Hansen Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 345	Yank him.......! My owner pays me to win. What I like about the game is the tough choices you have to make in order to win on a consistent basis. This is just one of the many examples you have to manage through. I have been in similiar situations and found on many occassions that with a pitcher being reported as tired does really mean something! I would think the odds are very small getting through unscathed at LEAST six more batters. Possible...not probable. Strikeouts go down...walks go up...ground ball go down...deep fly balls go up....hard hit balls that use to go for doubles in the alleys now end up in alleys across the street!!! Many a time I try to stretch a SP/MR for one or two more batters in order for pinch hitting considerations in my next at bat. Sometimes I get the bear........sometimes the bear gets me. A lot of factors come into play depending on the situation. That's why I enjoy the game especially in the play mode vs sim. That's why we get paid the big bucks in the manager mode.

04-10-2003, 02:37 AM	#10
Ragnar Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,674	Your pitcher has a perfect game in the top of the 8th and he's tired? I have never seen that. I have pitcher endurence set to NORMAL. That is the most realistic to me. Yeah pitchers last a bit longer than MLB but not by much. I often have to pull a pitcher in the 6th or 7th. I never have to pull a pitcher with a perfect game or no hitter. And I rarely ever see it in MLB either. But in this game if the pitcher is tired you have to pull him.