League Composition

fhomess · 02-06-2003, 12:25 PM

In light of Portlander's thread on "invite only" leagues, I thought I'd throw this out for discussion. Having never been a commish, and having been involved for a short time in a limited number of leagues, I don't have as good a perspective on this as others, but here's my question.

What do you think is the ideal composition of a league in terms of veteran owners, new owners, casual owners, die hards?

Since there will always be some turnover and some owners who are more dedicated than others, what do you think is a realistically attainable goal along those lines?

satchel · 02-06-2003, 12:41 PM

It’s not so much the owners’ categories, but their individual characteristics that affect the league. You need complementary proportions of enthusiastic owners; technically skilled owners; owners who have the same mindset as the Commish and support the league’s status quo; owners who have a different point of view and push for change; owners who are outgoing and help recruit. It takes a good variety to have a strong league. Well-established community members are precious, but newbie blood brings advantages too.

I can’t define an ideal mix, but a mix there needs to be.

satchel · 02-06-2003, 12:44 PM

And as far as turnover, usually less is better. It’s possible to have very low turnover in a league (of course league size is a big variable in owner turnover rate), some twelve- and sixteen-player leagues have virtually no turnover, or only one new owner every few seasons.

azkyote84 · 02-06-2003, 12:45 PM

From my limited experience the composition of the league is not as important as owner mentality. For example, as long as the owners care about the league as a whole and not just bettering themselves at all cost the league should thrive.

The first league I joined was a very good league but I was in way over my head. Soon my team had no ML talent and not much in the minors either. Lucky for me one of the GM's made it a point to help me out and get me acquainted with the workings of the online community and the game. My wife would have been happy though as I probably would have just quit the OOTP scene all together!

I am now in 3 leagues, having co-founded 2 of them. Everyone has their own views but there is no way I would ever give up my spot in the NGBL. The owner group, activity level, and front office are outstanding and I honestly can't imagine a better league. There are all levels of GM's in the NGBL and although we prefer some knowledge or common sense before joining there are a few people who started as newbies.

Not sure if this answered your question, but you have my 2 pennies regardless!

LivnLegend · 02-06-2003, 01:19 PM

I like a good mix of owner types, regardless of what labels you'd want to use.

The USBA has a mix consisting of vets who were in online leagues using OOTP3 and newer guys that came aboard with the release of OOTP4.
Some are ultra-active with team reports and extracurricular league interest articles and others we barely hear a peep from outside of necessity (i.e. contract extensions). The guys who are "quietest" in the USBA often have the best (even perfect) lineup submission percentages!

I am extremely satisfied with the current makeup of the league. My feelings are if a league was full of Type-A personalities, all fighting for their voice to be heard and their articles to be read, you may end up with information overload and too much of a good thing. How many owners are going to read 24 team reports on a weekly basis? How many leagues can boast 24 guys who can write compelling articles week after week? Realistically, not many leagues can claim that.

Quote:

Since there will always be some turnover and some owners who are more dedicated than others, what do you think is a realistically attainable goal along those lines?

We've had very little turnover in the USBA. I think one owner has left in the past two seasons, but the little turnover we have had has not been negative. Often a new owner/GM will bring some freshness to the trade talks or a new reporting angle for team reports.

Killebrew · 02-06-2003, 01:22 PM

I very much agree with those follow up opinions, especially the importance of ownership stability and a mix of personality and talents (some webheads, several writers, some technical people, some math folks, etc.) . Here are some more related thoughts...

Quote:

Originally posted by fhomess
What do you think is the ideal composition of a league in terms of veteran owners, new owners, casual owners, die hards?

Veteran Owners: Lots of OOTP vets in a league is great for stability but in no way does it guarantee a high level of league activity. Vet owners are almost always great for a commish's workload though, since they won't ask dozens of questions each sim. They usually know how to set a lineup and how to understand league rules etc.. The downside is that vets can become boring. The thrill of posting team reviews seems to often fade after a year or 2 of online leaguing. Not all vets are great GM's either and some of them will ask as many questions as a newcomer, but generally vets are a safe bet for a league. Note that new leagues would need to have a pretty good sales pitch or a cadre of existing vets in order to entice a lot of vets to join up.

New Owners: If by new owners you mean people new to OOTP or new to OOTP online leagues then new blood is good but can be risky. Often the GM's with the most energy for news articles and league reports etc. are the newer GM's, that is part of the reason why I don't think invite only leagues will ever cause a serious problem in the OOTP community. Unfortunately the main reason some leagues will avoid newer GM's is that there are some risks associated: Trust (cheating or pretending to be multiple online personalities), and dedication (quitting on a wim with no warning) are the biggest concerns. New owners will tax the resources of a commish with questions, and IMO it is always wise for a commish to delegate league tasks so that all the questions don't get sent to him. It can be frustrating answering the same questions over and over, and spreading out this help makes it easier and usually friendlier for the newcomer.

Casual Owners: If casual means easy going and generally quiet that's often great for a league. Usually about 33%-50% of the GM's in leagues I have been in have been easy going and generally quiet, but still a great pleasure to deal with. As long as they set up their lineups and reply to all (or most

) trade offers and league requirements (like All-Star votes, league rules, or awards votes) then they benefit a league. If by casual you mean lazy or absentee owners, then they hurt a league and should be weeded out regularly. This weeding out should be fair though, if I were Commish now I would send an email after 2 missed lineups asking what was up, do you still want to be in the league etc.. If I received no reply the GM would need to be replaced. In some cases real life has to take priority and a good commish IMO has to be reasonable and understanding if a GM has some time issues due to work or personal life. In many leagues GM's will get another GM in the other league to run their team if they are on vacation or on a business trip, and that usually works very well. If the time issue is serious enough the GM should be asked to step down and apply again in the future if his schedule changes.

Die Hards: If by die hards you mean people that devote an unhealthy amount of time to a league then die hards could be vets or new owners. Die hards are always great for a league unless the addiction impacts their personal life in a great way (EG: Divorce), or they become bitter that they end up doing all the league work. IMO great leagues will have many diehards that help out a commish or share some of the more arduous league tasks.

Quote:

Originally posted by fhomess
Since there will always be some turnover and some owners who are more dedicated than others, what do you think is a realistically attainable goal along those lines?

Realistic: Completely depends on what kind of commish the league has, whether the league is established, has a good track record, and what type of league it is.
For an established league with a great commish, & good track record: This league should be able to get any type of GM there is - a 75/25 vet/newcomer ratio would be possible as would fairly heavy applicant screening and I think that is a good mix.

fhomess · 02-06-2003, 02:45 PM

Thanks for all the insight! I don't know if/what I'll do with it yet, but I feel like I've got a better understanding of how different leagues work.

02-06-2003, 12:25 PM	#1
fhomess Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,693	League Composition In light of Portlander's thread on "invite only" leagues, I thought I'd throw this out for discussion. Having never been a commish, and having been involved for a short time in a limited number of leagues, I don't have as good a perspective on this as others, but here's my question. What do you think is the ideal composition of a league in terms of veteran owners, new owners, casual owners, die hards? Since there will always be some turnover and some owners who are more dedicated than others, what do you think is a realistically attainable goal along those lines? __________________ StatsLab- PHP/MySQL based utilities for Online Leagues Baseball Cards - Full list of known templates and documentation on card development.

02-06-2003, 12:41 PM	#2
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith Ark. USA Posts: 2,681	people It’s not so much the owners’ categories, but their individual characteristics that affect the league. You need complementary proportions of enthusiastic owners; technically skilled owners; owners who have the same mindset as the Commish and support the league’s status quo; owners who have a different point of view and push for change; owners who are outgoing and help recruit. It takes a good variety to have a strong league. Well-established community members are precious, but newbie blood brings advantages too. I can’t define an ideal mix, but a mix there needs to be. __________________ JL Commish NPBL Rhode Island Reds ’33 ’34 ’35 TCBA San Francisco Railbornes ’74 ’76 ’77 ’78 FL New Orleans Black Sox ’56 ’57 ’58 ’59

02-06-2003, 12:44 PM	#3
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith Ark. USA Posts: 2,681	turn over And as far as turnover, usually less is better. It’s possible to have very low turnover in a league (of course league size is a big variable in owner turnover rate), some twelve- and sixteen-player leagues have virtually no turnover, or only one new owner every few seasons. __________________ JL Commish NPBL Rhode Island Reds ’33 ’34 ’35 TCBA San Francisco Railbornes ’74 ’76 ’77 ’78 FL New Orleans Black Sox ’56 ’57 ’58 ’59

02-06-2003, 12:45 PM	#4
azkyote84 Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fosston, MN Posts: 328	From my limited experience the composition of the league is not as important as owner mentality. For example, as long as the owners care about the league as a whole and not just bettering themselves at all cost the league should thrive. The first league I joined was a very good league but I was in way over my head. Soon my team had no ML talent and not much in the minors either. Lucky for me one of the GM's made it a point to help me out and get me acquainted with the workings of the online community and the game. My wife would have been happy though as I probably would have just quit the OOTP scene all together! I am now in 3 leagues, having co-founded 2 of them. Everyone has their own views but there is no way I would ever give up my spot in the NGBL. The owner group, activity level, and front office are outstanding and I honestly can't imagine a better league. There are all levels of GM's in the NGBL and although we prefer some knowledge or common sense before joining there are a few people who started as newbies. Not sure if this answered your question, but you have my 2 pennies regardless! __________________ Andy - Future Author of: "Kyote Capenomics and You" Baseball Union Boston Resolute - 1907, 1908, 1909 Union Champions! Looking for 4! ABL Old - School 1999 NL Expansion Franchise

02-06-2003, 02:45 PM	#7
fhomess Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,693	Thanks for all the insight! I don't know if/what I'll do with it yet, but I feel like I've got a better understanding of how different leagues work. __________________ StatsLab- PHP/MySQL based utilities for Online Leagues Baseball Cards - Full list of known templates and documentation on card development.