Can pitchers improve individual pitches?

[goalieump413]

Since there are ratings for each pitch, I have a couple of questions:

1. How do I get a pitcher to improve a certain pitch, like a changeup?
2. How do I get a pitcher to add a pitch to his repertoire?

This may have been asked before, but since pitchers have ratings for each pitch they throw, what kind of control do I have to get said pitcher to improve his game? I don't see anything in the player strategy page.

Thank you,

Jesse

[olivertheorem]

1. It's a part of normal development. It either happens or it doesn't.
2. Get lucky.

[goalieump413]

Thanks, going to OOTP15 idea forum...

[Ts-Rock]

Originally Posted by goalieump413

Since there are ratings for each pitch, I have a couple of questions:

1. How do I get a pitcher to improve a certain pitch, like a changeup?
2. How do I get a pitcher to add a pitch to his repertoire?

This may have been asked before, but since pitchers have ratings for each pitch they throw, what kind of control do I have to get said pitcher to improve his game? I don't see anything in the player strategy page.

Thank you,

Jesse

I'm not 100% sure if guys learn new pitches or improves on pitches, but it is common in RL with guys learning say a cutter or another breaking ball.

you can always go into the Editor and add things too.

[DocHalladay]

Originally Posted by goalieump413

Since there are ratings for each pitch, I have a couple of questions:

1. How do I get a pitcher to improve a certain pitch, like a changeup?
2. How do I get a pitcher to add a pitch to his repertoire?

This may have been asked before, but since pitchers have ratings for each pitch they throw, what kind of control do I have to get said pitcher to improve his game? I don't see anything in the player strategy page.

Thank you,

Jesse

Take this with a grain of salt please. However, on the forums from past games, I have come to understand a pitcher with higher intelligence ratings will help a pitcher improve pitches, or velocity.

I do NOT recall if there is anything you can do to improve this area for pitchers. With coaches on, you might want to hire a very good pitching coach. Hope this helps.

[philthepat]

Im really hoping that sooner rather than later we'll get some way of at least having a small amount of control or input into pitch development in the game.

[thirdsaint]

Originally Posted by philthepat

Im really hoping that sooner rather than later we'll get some way of at least having a small amount of control or input into pitch development in the game.

If you use the Editor in a Player's Bio and give a pitcher, say, a 50 rating/125 potential then he'll progress through that new pitch over a couple years. I guess it isn't random but I'm not sure how much more control you could possibly have anyways.

[BMD]

I would live to see a system where the player (and AI) could request for a minor league pitcher to learn a new pitch. Once the request is made, all other development is slowed while working on the new pitch. This would not guarantee a new pitch, but would increase the chances. The time it takes should vary forcing you to decide when a pitcher has not yet developed a new pitch, do you give up and allow him to go back to regular development or continue to wait and hope. There would also be the chance that this new pitch is a 20/25 slider that was not worth sacrificing months if development time for. This would make new pitches a risk vs reward decision process on top of pitchers at all levels also randomly learning a new pitch.

[SpaceMonkey13]

Originally Posted by BMD

I would live to see a system where the player (and AI) could request for a minor league pitcher to learn a new pitch. Once the request is made, all other development is slowed while working on the new pitch. This would not guarantee a new pitch, but would increase the chances. The time it takes should vary forcing you to decide when a pitcher has not yet developed a new pitch, do you give up and allow him to go back to regular development or continue to wait and hope. There would also be the chance that this new pitch is a 20/25 slider that was not worth sacrificing months if development time for. This would make new pitches a risk vs reward decision process on top of pitchers at all levels also randomly learning a new pitch.

Like the spring training sliders (whatever happened to those anyways?)

[BMD]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey13

Like the spring training sliders (whatever happened to those anyways?)

NO! Nothing like that! Forget I said anything!

[SpaceMonkey13]

I think I have my answer...

[goalieump413]

I suppose I could extend my feature request to hitters as well. For example, if a hitter is generally overrated as a power hitter, but fails consistently, have said hitter work on becoming a better contact hitter.

But basically, and more to the original point, any real life professional baseball organization doesn't rely solely on a pitcher's comfort level, throwing whatever pitches he wants. They develop talent in their own best interests to help the organization win. And in so doing, require pitchers to learn new pitches to make them more effective at getting batters out.

There's such a strong degree of detail already in the game, something like this, a "coaching up" on an individual basis, would certainly be appreciated.

[statfreak]

Originally Posted by goalieump413

I suppose I could extend my feature request to hitters as well. For example, if a hitter is generally overrated as a power hitter, but fails consistently, have said hitter work on becoming a better contact hitter.

But basically, and more to the original point, any real life professional baseball organization doesn't rely solely on a pitcher's comfort level, throwing whatever pitches he wants. They develop talent in their own best interests to help the organization win. And in so doing, require pitchers to learn new pitches to make them more effective at getting batters out.

There's such a strong degree of detail already in the game, something like this, a "coaching up" on an individual basis, would certainly be appreciated.

God no, this is an awful idea.

Having this "control" is exactly what ruined OOTP6/6.5 leagues since you could usually take an elite closer and turn him into a starter often enough that it destroyed the balance in the league.

If you have to have this, then use the editor, that's what it is there for.

The way the game handles this now is more realistic than letting the user have any type of control. Thankfully Markus agrees.

[Tram2Whitaker]

Why can't there be a way to select what pitch you throw in game situations? Even in PbP mode, it's either pitch, or pitch around. I don't need to be in a close game situation when my pitcher decides to try out his 4 rated slider

[statfreak]

Originally Posted by Tram2Whitaker

Why can't there be a way to select what pitch you throw in game situations? Even in PbP mode, it's either pitch, or pitch around. I don't need to be in a close game situation when my pitcher decides to try out his 4 rated slider

Then I'd suggest you play MLB 2K13.

How many managers do you know that call pitches?

I love the fact we try to make the game better and, in some cases, something it is not, but at some point a line has to be drawn and sanity has to rule.

[goalieump413]

Originally Posted by statfreak

God no, this is an awful idea.

Having this "control" is exactly what ruined OOTP6/6.5 leagues since you could usually take an elite closer and turn him into a starter often enough that it destroyed the balance in the league.

If you have to have this, then use the editor, that's what it is there for.

The way the game handles this now is more realistic than letting the user have any type of control. Thankfully Markus agrees.

An awful idea? How? How is it an awful idea to introduce a method to OOTP game players that mimics real life baseball? Maintaining a system that only allows random chance changes to what a pitcher can throw is far more unrealistic.

And why should I use the editor if I want to simulate the game of baseball? MLB organizations don't have player editors.

I can't speak for whatever plagued OOTP6/6.5 game play, as I never played that version. And yes, if players scammed the system and ruined the gameplay experience, then shame on them. But that's in the past. I'm talking about the future.

[kingcharlesxii]

Originally Posted by goalieump413

An awful idea? How? How is it an awful idea to introduce a method to OOTP game players that mimics real life baseball? Maintaining a system that only allows random chance changes to what a pitcher can throw is far more unrealistic.

And why should I use the editor if I want to simulate the game of baseball? MLB organizations don't have player editors.

I can't speak for whatever plagued OOTP6/6.5 game play, as I never played that version. And yes, if players scammed the system and ruined the gameplay experience, then shame on them. But that's in the past. I'm talking about the future.

You can't just say to a pitcher "Hey, learn a splitter." and expect that he'll end up with a major league caliber pitch. That was the OOTP6 style and it was broken and unrealistic. As stat said, it was a huge issue in online leagues and you were pretty much required to do things like that if you wanted to be competitive (or have league-wide house rules). It wasn't fun.

The random style now is much more realistic - you have to assume every pitcher is always wanting to learn a new pitch constantly, I think every major league pitcher today has at least one pitch that they're tinkering with, often more.

One change that I would maybe be okay with is that staff knowledge affects learning rate - maybe if you have a bunch of guys on the staff who throw a good curveball, there's a higher chance that someone on that team will learn a curveball instead of, say, a screwball. That pitch might be terrible or great, that would depend on the individual player of course.

[SandMan]

Originally Posted by goalieump413

An awful idea? How? How is it an awful idea to introduce a method to OOTP game players that mimics real life baseball? Maintaining a system that only allows random chance changes to what a pitcher can throw is far more unrealistic.

And why should I use the editor if I want to simulate the game of baseball? MLB organizations don't have player editors.

I can't speak for whatever plagued OOTP6/6.5 game play, as I never played that version. And yes, if players scammed the system and ruined the gameplay experience, then shame on them. But that's in the past. I'm talking about the future.

I think that this is an awful idea also. If you can add pitches to a pitcher then you can take a great reliever and turn him into not a decent starter but a great one. This does not happen in real life. A pitcher with two pitches usually stay a relief pitcher. Not too many relievers in MLB become dominant starters. Sometimes a projected starter will start his career in the bullpen but he usually had three pitches but just needs a little seasoning. This is not the same thing that you are suggesting. Also if you want you can start two pitch pitchers with high stamina even though the pitcher is listed as a reliever. If the stamina is high enough you can get by with 5 innings maybe 6. Again it is an awful idea to allow for too many pitchers to go from two pitches to three. It will throw off the balance in the league.

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by SandMan

I think that this is an awful idea also. If you can add pitches to a pitcher then you can take a great reliever and turn him into not a decent starter but a great one. This does not happen in real life. A pitcher with two pitches usually stay a relief pitcher. Not too many relievers in MLB become dominant starters. Sometimes a projected starter will start his career in the bullpen but he usually had three pitches but just needs a little seasoning. This is not the same thing that you are suggesting. Also if you want you can start two pitch pitchers with high stamina even though the pitcher is listed as a reliever. If the stamina is high enough you can get by with 5 innings maybe 6. Again it is an awful idea to allow for too many pitchers to go from two pitches to three. It will throw off the balance in the league.

Well, for one, the whole 2 pitch reliever vs 3 pitch starter is a gross simplification. While true that almost all 2-pitch pitchers are relievers, most relievers throw more than 2 pitches.

Second, stamina should be more variable. If I have a guy with 8/8 stamina, but he's been pitching in the bullpen for the past 8 years, I'm not going to be able to throw him in my starting rotation and expect him to get 120+ pitches without his arm falling off.

If you edit the game to reflect those 2 cases, then I think having a more fluid pitch system would be great. Young pitchers should not be "SP/MR/CL", they should basically be rated at all 3. So if a guy has some good stamina potential, if you make him work towards being a starter, he'll attempt to fix his balance of pitches, and maybe try to learn new ones as necessary. Or you can convert him into a reliever full-time, in which case his lower pitches might slide.

The random pitch adding (or removing) could still be around for players who tinker with pitches. Some pitchers try out a new pitch and it works, sometimes they try and it fails. Sometimes they basically lose a pitch entirely. But if I have a guy who has great stamina potential but only 2 pitches, I'd love to tell him to try to learn that extra pitch or 2. He won't always learn it - that'd have to be a hidden rating in the game. And maybe by trying him out, I'll either wreck his arm, or screw up his other pitches.

This system isn't easy. It'd have to be a lot more complicated than the old spring training sliders, but it would be one of the final steps to having a pitching system mimic real life.

[kingcharlesxii]

Originally Posted by UWHabs

Well, for one, the whole 2 pitch reliever vs 3 pitch starter is a gross simplification. While true that almost all 2-pitch pitchers are relievers, most relievers throw more than 2 pitches.

Second, stamina should be more variable. If I have a guy with 8/8 stamina, but he's been pitching in the bullpen for the past 8 years, I'm not going to be able to throw him in my starting rotation and expect him to get 120+ pitches without his arm falling off.

If you edit the game to reflect those 2 cases, then I think having a more fluid pitch system would be great. Young pitchers should not be "SP/MR/CL", they should basically be rated at all 3. So if a guy has some good stamina potential, if you make him work towards being a starter, he'll attempt to fix his balance of pitches, and maybe try to learn new ones as necessary. Or you can convert him into a reliever full-time, in which case his lower pitches might slide.

The random pitch adding (or removing) could still be around for players who tinker with pitches. Some pitchers try out a new pitch and it works, sometimes they try and it fails. Sometimes they basically lose a pitch entirely. But if I have a guy who has great stamina potential but only 2 pitches, I'd love to tell him to try to learn that extra pitch or 2. He won't always learn it - that'd have to be a hidden rating in the game. And maybe by trying him out, I'll either wreck his arm, or screw up his other pitches.

This system isn't easy. It'd have to be a lot more complicated than the old spring training sliders, but it would be one of the final steps to having a pitching system mimic real life.

I agree with the first two.

For the third one, why would you ever groom anyone but as a SP in that case? That's basically how the game works now, every pitcher is trying to learn a new pitch all the time.

For the 4th case, you'd need to have a really, really high failure rate (with big penalties) if you wanted him to focus on learning a new pitch at the exclusion of everything else. Turn off all rating development and increases, drastically increase the chance of ratings collapsing. Maybe, MAYBE it would be balanced but again, it's just another luck thing with much more drastic swings. That doesn't sound like fun to me and it still sounds pretty gamey.

That's why I like the current system - you're already telling the guy to try to learn new pitches 100% of the time. You're telling that 8/8 stam reliever with 2 pitches to learn a 3rd pitch already.