2020/2024/2028 MLB Expanion Cities. Choose for me!

[Certain Valor]

I'm a plays-every-game for a single team, commissioner mode type player. I started with 2012 and am currently about to head into the 2019 off-season as the GM of the Seattle Mariners. (I also keep a watchful eye on transactions to make sure there are no lopsided computer trades and 'steer' computer teams in the right direction in the off-season).

I've decided that 2020 would be a good time to expand Major League Baseball. I keep things as realistic as possible, though with it being "my universe" I still might bend some house rules now-and-then for the sake of logic or continuity.

And now, I need YOUR help to expand Major League baseball over the next decade!

This is how it's going to work:

In the CertainValor Universe, the MLB has approved a 6-team expansion plan to take place over 8 years. The MLB will expand to 32 teams in 2020 (this upcoming season), 34 teams in 2024 and 36 teams in 2028.

Starting in 2028, the league will adjust to 4, 9-team divisions (2 AL and 2 NL), where the top 4 of each division make the playoffs.

I need your help to pick the teams, and we'll use a (thread!) poll. I've narrowed it down to 15 possible locations based on city size, stadium potential, likelihood, etc. I'm going to conduct a poll. The top 6 vote getters in the poll will be the 6 new expansion franchises. The top 2 will be added in 2020, 3-4 in 2024, 5-6 in 2028. If there's a tie I'll break the tie.

I hope you're interested in participating and discussing. I (with the help of @OOTPBaseball) had a survey on Twitter a few days ago and got some great feedback there, as well to help me establish an initial list of cities.

Here are the cities, in no particular order, each with a little background on how I view them in my Certain Valor Universe heading into 2020:


Charlotte, North Carolina

Pros: Lots of corporate banking and sponsorship potential, AAA stadium built in 2013 with expansion possibility already built in. Good climate, growing population.

Cons: Has not shown itself to be a great pro sports town, no standout ownership group

Likely Name: Charlotte Flyers

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Nashville, Tennessee

Pros: Good cultural fit, decent minor league success, good climate, various standout potential ownership groups

Cons: Not stadium ready, market on the smallish side

Likely Name: Nashville Grays

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Vancouver, British Columbia

Pros: World class city, lots of disposable income, various potential standout ownership groups

Cons: Cold climate, limited initial interest, perhaps not a good cultural fit, stadium concerns (dome required?)

Likely Name: Vancouver Lions

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New Orleans, Louisiana

Pros: Many potential stadium sites, rabid fan support, good cultural fit, warm weather

Cons: Fairly wet climate, no potential standout ownership, small market, economically unstable

Likely Name: New Orleans Bourbons

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Austin, Texas

Pros:Exploding growth market, good climate, potential standout ownership groups

Cons: College town with cultural fit questions, no stadium and limited potential sites near downtown core, heavy presence of Texas Rangers/Ryan ownership group with AAA team up the road

Likely Name: Austin Independents

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Las Vegas, Nevada

Pros: Exploding growth market, good climate, many potential stadium sites, very much wants a pro team

Cons: Gambling, potential standout ownership groups but are all connected to gambling, potential for fan base issues with tourism being major market

Likely Name: Las Vegas Knights

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Portland, Oregon

Pros: Exploding growth market, Supports current NBA/MLS teams with rabid fanbase, disposable income, potential standout ownership groups

Cons: On the smallish side, potential cultural fit questions, wet climate, stadium concerns

Likely Name: Portland Frontiers

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Columbus, Ohio

Pros: Large population, growth market (though slowly), Modern AAA stadium with conversion potential

Cons: Cold climate, limited potential ownership groups, fanbase questions (do not strongly support NHL team), college town with questionable cultural fit, economic concerns

Likely Name: Columbus Generals

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Hamilton, Ontario

Pros: Growing (slowly) population with a desirous fanbase for a pro team, many potential stadium sites, potential standout ownership groups

Cons: Cold climate (dome required?), close proximity to Toronto, cultural concerns, very small market

Likely Name: Hamilton Bombers

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San Antonio, Texas

Pros: Exploding growth market, large population, good climate, fanbase desirious for a second pro team, standout potential ownership groups

Cons: Considered small NBA market so would be considered very small MLB market, stadium concerns with few downtown sites possible

Likely Name: San Antonio Alamos

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Albequerque, New Mexico

Pros: (Slow) growth market, decent climate, entire state desirous for a pro team, many potential stadium sites

Cons: Very small market in current state, limited potential ownership groups, state sprawl may make attendance for 81 home games difficult to maintain

Likely Name: Albequerque Isotopes

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Buffalo, New York

Pros: AAA stadium designed specifically to be expanded to MLB stadium for 1993 bid (stadium will be nearly 30 years old, though), standout potential ownership groups, rabid fanbase

Cons: Dwindling and already very small market, cold climate, economy concerns, close proximity to Toronto

Likely Name: Buffalo Bisons

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Mexico City, Mexico

Pros: Exploding growth market, massive population, standout potential ownership grounds, rabid fanbase, good climate

Cons: Geographic concerns, safety concerns, logistic concerns, oversight concerns

Likely Name: Mexico City Aztecs

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Oklahoma City, Oklahoma

Pros: (Slow) growth market, good climate, rabid fanbase, many potential stadium sites

Cons: Limited potential ownership groups, very small market

Likely Name: Oklahoma City Imperials

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Omaha, Nebraska

Pros: Large (but sprawling) potential fanbase, many potential stadium sites, decent climate

Cons: Limited potential ownership groups, very small market, college town with cultural fit questions, economic concerns

Likely Name: Omaha Naturals

================================================== ===================================

So here's how it will go. I'll leave this open to Sunday, I'll obviously need at least 1 vote for 6 different cities to put it into practice, and if we don't get that then I'll just have to choose on my own.

Once the 6 are selected, I'll be starting a Dynasty thread where I'll be posting the team names, ownership, budgets etc. If you'd like to be a minor league created player for one of those teams, let me know and we can make that happen, too.

Thanks for reading and participating. This is what makes this game/community so great!

Edit: I would have liked to have made a poll for this, but you can only make a poll for the first five minutes after making a thread (which I did not know). If you'd still like to participate, just go ahead and list your 6 in a post reply, and I will do a final tally some time on Sunday. Thanks!

[Le Grande Orange]

In regards to your choices of U.S. locations for potential expansion, this post from a thread I started last year may be of interest.

[Certain Valor]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

In regards to your choices of U.S. locations for potential expansion, this post from a thread I started last year may be of interest.

Thanks!

A few of those mentioned in your link I excluded from my 15 finalists for proximity reasons, though I did keep in a few others. Also since it's 2020 I tried to factor in some shifting based on current market trends. I'm surprised to see Hartford anywhere on that list. Have you ever been to Hartford? They go to bed at 6:00 PM

[canaveral]

I'll go with my usual expansion teams:
1- Vancouver
2- Portland
3- San Antonio (close enough to Austin to make a broader market)
4- Albuquerque (commuter rail helps bring the fans in from nearby towns)
5- Charlotte (huge surrounding population in central NC and northern SC)
6- Columbus

[gpellis]

1. Charlotte - to your point about a lacking pro sports town, I'd ask you to kindly look at Charlotte Hornets attendance records when George Shinn was in good standings with the city. Constant sellouts. The Panthers are also very well supported despite putting an inferior, worthless, complete garbage product on the field. Also, I am a strong possible owner for this team, and I can do some money laundering, of course.

2. Portland - in a dome of course.

3. Mexico City - because the threat of getting shot to death is always fun. Actually, even NASCAR has expanded into this region. There is the threat of safety, but it's plausible, though I'd almost be inclined to think MLB would expand elsewhere before going here, for the sake of your game, it'd be cool.

4. Vegas - because it's Vegas. There's a lot around there, the weather would be stellar for playing in an outdoor stadium... and tourists would watch.

5. New Orleans - out of the cities you have listed, it seems like a decent place to catch a ballgame. They love their Saints, but I'd never go to a game there in the summer, unless it was a Dome, or I wanted to pass out from humidity.

6. Austin - This one is so you can go watch a game.

[Lukas Berger]

1-Charlotte
2-Nashville
3-Vancouver
4-Las Vegas
5-Portland
6-Omaha

[BoofBonser26]

1. Columbus - as a former Ohio resident, three MLB teams would result in some pretty intense turf wars that would be fun to be around. Why'd you pick the name "Generals"? I'd suggest "Clippers", keeping the name of the AAA-team ala Milwaukee. Or, you could go with "Senators" if you don't mind the Washington similarity. Or "Buckeyes" after the old minor league team, though that causes OSU issues maybe for you. Or "Jets", but that has football associations. I'd vote "Clippers".
2. Vancouver - bringing a 2nd MLB team to Canada
3. Charlotte - picked because of the obvious market fit
4. Portland - picked because it usually lands #1 on lists of realistic expansion candidates
5. Nashville - just rounding out my picks with "plausible" spots from LGO's list
6. San Antonio - see above

[t-bone shuffle]

Just a few thoughts regarding "realism":

I added both Charlotte (as Carolina Pines) and Nashville (Kats) and see them as the most likely US cities to be considered in reality.

Austin and San Antonio would have to be a package deal, you can drive from S. Austin to SA in about an hour. The problem here with regards to "realism" is that the Rangers and the Astros would fight this tooth and nail to the death. I really don't think that MLB could make this happen IRL.

Vegas is a good choice (I moved the A's there), but think that "reality" would bite you here as well, even though there is an AAA team in the market. I don't believe you'll ever see a "major" league franchise of any kind in Vegas.

New Orleans has no chance at all.

I think that both Orlando and Montreal are more realistic options down the road.

[Certain Valor]

Originally Posted by BoofBonser26

1. Columbus - as a former Ohio resident, three MLB teams would result in some pretty intense turf wars that would be fun to be around. Why'd you pick the name "Generals"? I'd suggest "Clippers", keeping the name of the AAA-team ala Milwaukee. Or, you could go with "Senators" if you don't mind the Washington similarity. Or "Buckeyes" after the old minor league team, though that causes OSU issues maybe for you. Or "Jets", but that has football associations. I'd vote "Clippers".
2. Vancouver - bringing a 2nd MLB team to Canada
3. Charlotte - picked because of the obvious market fit
4. Portland - picked because it usually lands #1 on lists of realistic expansion candidates
5. Nashville - just rounding out my picks with "plausible" spots from LGO's list
6. San Antonio - see above

Thanks for participating

I chose "Generals" because I felt like Senators was too similar, and I just kind of like the name. The reason I didn't go with "Clippers" was because I've always thought that Clippers came from "Yankee Clipper" and Columbus' long-standing affiliation with the Yankees organization. Maybe that's not true? I will consider it if Columbus makes the top six!

[Certain Valor]

Originally Posted by gpellis

1. Charlotte - to your point about a lacking pro sports town, I'd ask you to kindly look at Charlotte Hornets attendance records when George Shinn was in good standings with the city. Constant sellouts. The Panthers are also very well supported despite putting an inferior, worthless, complete garbage product on the field. Also, I am a strong possible owner for this team, and I can do some money laundering, of course.

2. Portland - in a dome of course.

3. Mexico City - because the threat of getting shot to death is always fun. Actually, even NASCAR has expanded into this region. There is the threat of safety, but it's plausible, though I'd almost be inclined to think MLB would expand elsewhere before going here, for the sake of your game, it'd be cool.

4. Vegas - because it's Vegas. There's a lot around there, the weather would be stellar for playing in an outdoor stadium... and tourists would watch.

5. New Orleans - out of the cities you have listed, it seems like a decent place to catch a ballgame. They love their Saints, but I'd never go to a game there in the summer, unless it was a Dome, or I wanted to pass out from humidity.

6. Austin - This one is so you can go watch a game.

Touche on Charlotte having it's sports moments. I was thinking mostly of how abysmal the Bobcats and Panthers have been lately (which explains lack of support) and the Hornets leaving town. But as you can see from everyone's vote so far, they're a pretty clear favorite. And sure, you can throw your name in the ring for ownership, business better pick up at the roofing company. Pray for hail

[sizzlingpopcorn]

1. Vancouver
2. Hamilton
3. Portland
4. Columbus
5. Buffalo
6. Omaha

Add Toronto, Cleveland and Milwakee/Minnesota to create a Border Division or North Division.

[Certain Valor]

Originally Posted by t-bone shuffle

Just a few thoughts regarding "realism":

I added both Charlotte (as Carolina Pines) and Nashville (Kats) and see them as the most likely US cities to be considered in reality.

Austin and San Antonio would have to be a package deal, you can drive from S. Austin to SA in about an hour. The problem here with regards to "realism" is that the Rangers and the Astros would fight this tooth and nail to the death. I really don't think that MLB could make this happen IRL.

Vegas is a good choice (I moved the A's there), but think that "reality" would bite you here as well, even though there is an AAA team in the market. I don't believe you'll ever see a "major" league franchise of any kind in Vegas.

New Orleans has no chance at all.

I think that both Orlando and Montreal are more realistic options down the road.

Thanks for the input! Will definitely take it into consideration. Some thoughts:

I'm not sure that Dallas and Houston would fight any harder than say Washington or Baltimore or Atlanta might to keep a team out of Charlotte, because those fan bases (Atlanta especially) trend pretty far from their home turf in that regard.

Austin and San Antonio wouldn't have to be a package deal in 2020 (they might now), because population wise they will both be in the top ten by that point (San Antonio already is). The only question there is really with media market size, but with places like Milwaukee and Cleveland going the other direction that's not necessarily a concern for me in the sense of "realism".

The problem also with relying on SA/Austin as a singular market is that while you can get from South Austin to San Antonio in an hour when there is no traffic, to make a 7:00 PM start on a weekday you'd basically have to take the day off, because there is no way you're going to beat rush hour traffic anywhere north of that and get there on time. Unless they'd be the Cubs and have a bazillion day games.

I also disagree with you about Vegas (I think a team will be there eventually because I think gambling will spread nationally, not contract and is eventually just going to become accepted). Will it by 2020? Maybe not. By 2028 is more likely, though.

[BoofBonser26]

Originally Posted by Certain Valor

Thanks for participating

I chose "Generals" because I felt like Senators was too similar, and I just kind of like the name. The reason I didn't go with "Clippers" was because I've always thought that Clippers came from "Yankee Clipper" and Columbus' long-standing affiliation with the Yankees organization. Maybe that's not true? I will consider it if Columbus makes the top six!

The Clippers, though a long-lived Yankees affiliate, actually started out as the AAA club of the Pirates for their first two years of existence, under the "Clippers" name. I think your bigger problem now is appeasing the Indians, who would have to give up their close AAA club! I look forward to seeing what you pick if Columbus ends up in the top six.

[NYY #23]

I would vote:

Charlotte
Nashville
Portland
Albuquerque
Vancouver
Mexico City

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

Current drug violence aside (who knows what happens by 2020/2024/2028), wouldn't Monterrey be a more likely candidate than Mexico City, if there were to be an expansion to that country? It's still a good-sized metropolitan area, and an important economic center, with a high per-capita income relative to the rest of the country, and opportunities for corporate sponsorship. It's often thought of as the most "Americanized" city in Mexico, and it tried to get an MLB team at least once before, when the Expos were in dire straits. According to Wikipedia, it currently has the largest baseball stadium in Mexico, so facilities might be less of a concern initially.

[nebradska]

I have to throw my vote in for Omaha, having attended college just a little way down the road. I assure you that although Omaha loves hosting the CWS, they are not by any means a college town (Nebraska is a "college state" during football season though), and Nebraskans are hungry for a pro team in a major sport.

[RoyalsBlue]

I would go with these 6:

Charlotte Flyers
Nashville Grays
New Orleans Bourbons
Las Vegas Knights
Portland Frontiers
Hamilton Bombers

IMO, might work on a different name for Hamilton, though. Caribou or Grizzlies, perhaps? Both are native to Ontario.

[Certain Valor]

Originally Posted by Cinnamon J. Scudworth

Current drug violence aside (who knows what happens by 2020/2024/2028), wouldn't Monterrey be a more likely candidate than Mexico City, if there were to be an expansion to that country? It's still a good-sized metropolitan area, and an important economic center, with a high per-capita income relative to the rest of the country, and opportunities for corporate sponsorship. It's often thought of as the most "Americanized" city in Mexico, and it tried to get an MLB team at least once before, when the Expos were in dire straits. According to Wikipedia, it currently has the largest baseball stadium in Mexico, so facilities might be less of a concern initially.

Cinnamon,

Thanks for the question. Honestly, I just left Monterrey out because I don't like the idea of an MLB team there and since this is the CV-Verse () and there are plenty of other viable options, I just figured I'd hedge by not including them in the possible 15.

Maybe if I ever get far enough along to expand to 40 they can be in the conversation.

[Certain Valor]

Originally Posted by RoyalsBlue

I would go with these 6:

Charlotte Flyers
Nashville Grays
New Orleans Bourbons
Las Vegas Knights
Portland Frontiers
Hamilton Bombers

IMO, might work on a different name for Hamilton, though. Caribou or Grizzlies, perhaps? Both are native to Ontario.

Hmm. Grizzlies is ok. I also like "Whitecaps", to steal something from Vancouver.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by t-bone shuffle

Austin and San Antonio would have to be a package deal, you can drive from S. Austin to SA in about an hour. The problem here with regards to "realism" is that the Rangers and the Astros would fight this tooth and nail to the death.

They could dislike it all they want. Seeing as both those cities are well outside of the Astros' and Rangers' defined exclusive operating territories, a (future) MLB is free to set up shop in either place. (They would have to compensate any minor league teams displaced from those cities, however.)