Doubleheader, one game at home, one away, two different teams

elfsutton · 04-07-2013, 02:10 PM

Ok, this is odd, I am playing a 1901 replay, in control of Pittsburgh and for the most part, I simply sim each month, not that into the full play experience. Came to 1906, had an injury on Aug 28th and after making my changes, I was about to finish the month, but I noticed two games, doubleheader, no worries, but the oddity was, one was home vs Philadelphia, the other was away vs St. Louis. Now, I am very familiar with scheduling, plenty of split team games in spring training and all, but I do not believe I have ever seen a doubleheader scheduled for against two different teams in two different place on the same day. Does this happen often with the OOTP scheduler and if so, how, besides manually making a schedule, can you keep this from happening.

The real world effects would be wild. I guess it could be done, but I dont think I can ever recall this being done in real life, anyone seen it?

shawa666 · 04-07-2013, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elfsutton

Ok, this is odd, I am playing a 1901 replay, in control of Pittsburgh and for the most part, I simply sim each month, not that into the full play experience. Came to 1906, had an injury on Aug 28th and after making my changes, I was about to finish the month, but I noticed two games, doubleheader, no worries, but the oddity was, one was home vs Philadelphia, the other was away vs St. Louis. Now, I am very familiar with scheduling, plenty of split team games in spring training and all, but I do not believe I have ever seen a doubleheader scheduled for against two different teams in two different place on the same day. Does this happen often with the OOTP scheduler and if so, how, besides manually making a schedule, can you keep this from happening.

The real world effects would be wild. I guess it could be done, but I dont think I can ever recall this being done in real life, anyone seen it?

All major league schedules are manually edited schedules. If it was in the schedule it's probably because it happened.

joefromchicago · 04-09-2013, 04:14 PM

It happened occasionally in the nineteenth century. Most often, it would involve New York and Brooklyn or Boston and Providence. For instance, Team A might play a morning game against New York and then an afternoon game against Brooklyn, while Team B would play against Brooklyn in the morning and New York in the afternoon. I've seen one instance where the home teams were New York and Philadelphia -- as far as I know, that's the biggest distance for a visiting team to travel in a single day to play a double header.

It must have been viewed as something of a gimmick even back in those days, and I can't imagine that visiting teams were particularly happy with the arrangement. I don't see that kind of double-header in the Retrosheet schedule file for 1906 -- what you're describing sounds like it might have been a make-up game, where the team played a home game in the morning and a road game in the afternoon. Most likely it was either New York or Brooklyn. You can check the date at Retrosheet to find out exactly what happened.

Because OOTP schedules don't recognize geographical proximity, you can end up with the situation where you're playing a morning game in Pittsburgh and an afternoon game in St. Louis, as you described. That's one reason why, when I play deadball-era seasons, I use modified schedules that eliminate those sorts of quirks.

joefromchicago · 04-09-2013, 04:38 PM

Here's an example from May 30, 1885:

Code:

"18850530","0","Sat","CHN","NL",23,"BSN","NL",23,"d","",""
"18850530","0","Sat","DTN","NL",23,"BSN","NL",24,"a","","" 
"18850530","1","Sat","SL5","NL",23,"NY1","NL",23,"a","","" 
"18850530","2","Sat","SL5","NL",24,"NY1","NL",24,"d","","" 
"18850530","1","Sat","BFN","NL",23,"PHI","NL",23,"a","","" 
"18850530","2","Sat","BFN","NL",24,"PHI","NL",24,"d","","" 
"18850530","0","Sat","CHN","NL",24,"PRO","NL",23,"a","",""
"18850530","0","Sat","DTN","NL",24,"PRO","NL",24,"d","",""

Note that both Chicago (CHN) and Detroit (DTN) are scheduled to play at Boston (BSN) and Providence (PRO). on the same day. Looks like Detroit played in Boston and then travelled to Providence, while Chicago was supposed to play in Providence and then travel to Boston. Detroit actually played both games, losing both by the score of 4-3. Chicago only played its game against Providence -- not sure what happened to the "nightcap" in Boston.

EDIT: the afternoon game between Chicago and Boston was called on account of rain with Boston leading 3-2.

elfsutton · 04-09-2013, 05:08 PM

Thanks for the info Joefromchicago, history of this great game is why play this game, lol. I was aware of the close/nearby two team double headers, wonder if this great game will ever include the split squad games in spring training?

Le Grande Orange · 04-09-2013, 05:36 PM

The reason for the doubleheader in question is because there's a typo on the originally published schedules which was not caught when the schedules were printed back in 1906, and consequently not caught when the schedule file was created for OOTP.

The NL schedules for each team's home games, as published in The New York Times, had the following games listed for Aug. 28, 1906:

Cincinnati at Chicago
Philadelphia at Pittsburgh
Pittsburgh at St. Louis

The Pittsburgh at St. Louis game is a typo in the original publication source. The game date should have been Aug. 29.

ETA: The schedule file has been corrected for OOTP 14.

04-07-2013, 02:10 PM	#1
elfsutton All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Cadiz, Ohio Posts: 946	Doubleheader, one game at home, one away, two different teams Ok, this is odd, I am playing a 1901 replay, in control of Pittsburgh and for the most part, I simply sim each month, not that into the full play experience. Came to 1906, had an injury on Aug 28th and after making my changes, I was about to finish the month, but I noticed two games, doubleheader, no worries, but the oddity was, one was home vs Philadelphia, the other was away vs St. Louis. Now, I am very familiar with scheduling, plenty of split team games in spring training and all, but I do not believe I have ever seen a doubleheader scheduled for against two different teams in two different place on the same day. Does this happen often with the OOTP scheduler and if so, how, besides manually making a schedule, can you keep this from happening. The real world effects would be wild. I guess it could be done, but I dont think I can ever recall this being done in real life, anyone seen it? __________________ Pittsburgh Pirates, Cleveland Indians fan Rewriting Cubs History, a Dynasty Report Baseball History, What Might Have Been Rewriting Cubs History Poll

04-09-2013, 04:14 PM	#3
joefromchicago Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3,712	It happened occasionally in the nineteenth century. Most often, it would involve New York and Brooklyn or Boston and Providence. For instance, Team A might play a morning game against New York and then an afternoon game against Brooklyn, while Team B would play against Brooklyn in the morning and New York in the afternoon. I've seen one instance where the home teams were New York and Philadelphia -- as far as I know, that's the biggest distance for a visiting team to travel in a single day to play a double header. It must have been viewed as something of a gimmick even back in those days, and I can't imagine that visiting teams were particularly happy with the arrangement. I don't see that kind of double-header in the Retrosheet schedule file for 1906 -- what you're describing sounds like it might have been a make-up game, where the team played a home game in the morning and a road game in the afternoon. Most likely it was either New York or Brooklyn. You can check the date at Retrosheet to find out exactly what happened. Because OOTP schedules don't recognize geographical proximity, you can end up with the situation where you're playing a morning game in Pittsburgh and an afternoon game in St. Louis, as you described. That's one reason why, when I play deadball-era seasons, I use modified schedules that eliminate those sorts of quirks. __________________ American-Ethnic (and Canadian) Namesets Historical Minor League Schedules 1870s City/Team Nickname Randomizers "It's Usually Sunny in Philadelphia" weather mod Negro League Schedules Last edited by joefromchicago; 04-09-2013 at 04:54 PM.

04-09-2013, 04:38 PM	#4
joefromchicago Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3,712	Here's an example from May 30, 1885: Code: "18850530","0","Sat","CHN","NL",23,"BSN","NL",23,"d","","" "18850530","0","Sat","DTN","NL",23,"BSN","NL",24,"a","","" "18850530","1","Sat","SL5","NL",23,"NY1","NL",23,"a","","" "18850530","2","Sat","SL5","NL",24,"NY1","NL",24,"d","","" "18850530","1","Sat","BFN","NL",23,"PHI","NL",23,"a","","" "18850530","2","Sat","BFN","NL",24,"PHI","NL",24,"d","","" "18850530","0","Sat","CHN","NL",24,"PRO","NL",23,"a","","" "18850530","0","Sat","DTN","NL",24,"PRO","NL",24,"d","","" Note that both Chicago (CHN) and Detroit (DTN) are scheduled to play at Boston (BSN) and Providence (PRO). on the same day. Looks like Detroit played in Boston and then travelled to Providence, while Chicago was supposed to play in Providence and then travel to Boston. Detroit actually played both games, losing both by the score of 4-3. Chicago only played its game against Providence -- not sure what happened to the "nightcap" in Boston. EDIT: the afternoon game between Chicago and Boston was called on account of rain with Boston leading 3-2. __________________ American-Ethnic (and Canadian) Namesets Historical Minor League Schedules 1870s City/Team Nickname Randomizers "It's Usually Sunny in Philadelphia" weather mod Negro League Schedules Last edited by joefromchicago; 04-09-2013 at 05:08 PM.

04-09-2013, 05:08 PM	#5
elfsutton All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Cadiz, Ohio Posts: 946	Thanks for the info Joefromchicago, history of this great game is why play this game, lol. I was aware of the close/nearby two team double headers, wonder if this great game will ever include the split squad games in spring training? __________________ Pittsburgh Pirates, Cleveland Indians fan Rewriting Cubs History, a Dynasty Report Baseball History, What Might Have Been Rewriting Cubs History Poll

04-09-2013, 05:36 PM	#6
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	The reason for the doubleheader in question is because there's a typo on the originally published schedules which was not caught when the schedules were printed back in 1906, and consequently not caught when the schedule file was created for OOTP. The NL schedules for each team's home games, as published in The New York Times, had the following games listed for Aug. 28, 1906: Cincinnati at Chicago Philadelphia at Pittsburgh Pittsburgh at St. Louis The Pittsburgh at St. Louis game is a typo in the original publication source. The game date should have been Aug. 29. ETA: The schedule file has been corrected for OOTP 14. Last edited by Le Grande Orange; 04-10-2013 at 02:31 AM.