Can someone explain...

[PSUColonel]

why this player is on irrevocable waivers? With an option year remaining, I was under the impression he should be on revocable waivers. Am I wrong, or missing something?

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

Under MLB rules, if he's being removed from the secondary roster, I don't think his option years have anything to do with it. It's irrevocable by default. Of course, OOTP does not always follow MLB rules precisely.

[StyxNCa]

I have explanations for many things, some good, some bad, but I have none for that.

[PSUColonel]

There are tons of examples...CJS must be right

[JMDurron]

Looks like a move to make space on the 40-man roster to me.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by JMDurron

Looks like a move to make space on the 40-man roster to me.

That's not the issue.

[PSUColonel]

Nope...that can't be it...I found an example of a player who is not on irrevocable waivers. I hope this is not a very serious problem.

[Questdog]

Option years have no relevance for players not on the 40-man roster, so if you are waiving him to remove from the 40-man roster, the waivers should be irrevocable.

[PSUColonel]

ok

[sc_superstar]

A time option years remaining can be of benefit with waivers is if you trade for a player on a major league deal who has options remaining, you can waive him revocably if he clears he can be demoted without adding him to the 40 man, if he doesnt you keep him and add him to the 40-man

[RchW]

I'm glad we averted that potential game stopper. I would really like it if Markus could get OOTP closer to the real life waiver process

1. IRL you get one free shot to put any player on waivers, options or not. In OOTP you don't. Having this in the game might help generate some trades.

2. Make the trade AI wake up. If a player is claimed on waivers the AI should be willing to trade for that player. The current system looks like two unrelated pieces of programming instead of a game wide player evaluation system.

Oops rant alert.

Carry on!

[Questdog]

Real-life Waivers are not intended to be used as feelers for clubs to find out interest in a player. In fact, rules have been made over the years to try to stop or at least mitigate this behavior. So, the fact that OOTP doesn't abuse the waiver rules like real GMs is not a pressing issue, imo...........

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Questdog

Real-life Waivers are not intended to be used as feelers for clubs to find out interest in a player. In fact, rules have been made over the years to try to stop or at least mitigate this behavior. So, the fact that OOTP doesn't abuse the waiver rules like real GMs is not a pressing issue, imo...........

Not sure I understand.

Real life rules specifically allow for a freebie recinding of waivers once for each player. I don't see how that could be construed as abuse in any way. If MLB and the MLBPA wanted to stop that behavior currently allowed by rule they could negotiate a different rule at any time. See the recent changes in FA designation, drug testing etc. as examples.

From wiki

If a player is waived, any team may claim him. If more than one team claims the player from waivers, the team with the weakest record in the player's league gets preference. If no team in the player's league claims him, the claiming team with the weakest record in the other league gets preference. In the first month of the season, preference is determined using the previous year's standings.

If a team claims a player off waivers and has a viable claim as described above, his current team (the "waiving team") may choose one of the following options:
arrange a trade with the claiming team for that player within two business days of the claim; or
rescind the request and keep the player on its major league roster, effectively canceling the waiver; or
do nothing and allow the claiming team to assume the player's existing contract, pay the waiving team a waiver fee, and place the player on its active major league roster.

If a player is claimed and the waiving team exercises its rescission option, the waiving team may not use the option again for that player in that season—a subsequent waiver would be irrevocable with a claiming team getting the player essentially for nothing.[7] If no team claims a player off waivers after three business days, the player has cleared waivers and may be assigned to a minor league team, traded (to any team), or released outright.

The waiver "wire" is a secret within the personnel of the Major League Baseball clubs; no official announcement of a waiver is made until a transaction actually occurs, although information sometimes leaks out.[7][8] Many players are often waived during the post-July "waiver-required" trading period for teams to gauge trade interest in a particular player.[7] Usually, when the player is claimed, the waiving team will rescind the waiver to avoid losing the player unless a trade can be worked out with the claiming team.

Re the bold. OOTP allows the human player to put certain non-40 man roster players on recallable waivers multiple times. This would be abuse if it were allowed IRL.

[Questdog]

The practice of placing a player on waivers to gauge interest in the player for possible trade without ever having the intent to follow through the placement with a roster move is contrary to the intent of the waiver rules. This abuse of the rules happens all the time in real baseball. It has been the subject of discussion and the motivator of rules changes since waivers were first instituted. Allowing revocable waivers allows this abuse, but not allowing revocable waivers subjects the teams to losing players that they don't want to lose. The rules have altered many times in an attempt to find the right balance that protects a teams property while keeping the potential for abuse to a minimum. The only way to prevent the practice would be to get rid of revocable waivers altogether, but clubs don't think they'd like to operate without that net. So the abuse is tolerated.

I'm not saying that we should get rid of revocable waivers in OOTP. I'm just saying that if OOTP GM's are not abusing the rule the way that real life GM's are, I am not overly concerned.......

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Questdog

Option years have no relevance for players not on the 40-man roster, so if you are waiving him to remove from the 40-man roster, the waivers should be irrevocable.

^^^ This.

There are two ways a player can be assigned to the minor leagues:

(1) Optionally, which means the player remains on the 40-man roster and the major league club can recall the player; and (2) outright, which means the player is removed from the 40-man roster and has to clear waivers. It is completely possible for a club to outright a player who has options remaining; there is nothing in the rules which prevents it. (In such cases, if the player spends 20 days or more outright in the minors an option year is considered used.)

If a player is claimed and the waiving team exercises its rescission option, the waiving team may not use the option again for that player in that season—a subsequent waiver would be irrevocable with a claiming team getting the player essentially for nothing.

That's not quite right. A second waiver request on the same player during the same waiver period is irrevocable. A brief recap of waivers in real life, as per the 2008 Major League Rules (which, as far as I'm aware, are still in effect).

There are four kind of waivers:

• Unconditional Release. Used when a player is released. These are always irrevocable.
• Outright Assignment. Used when a player is assigned outright to the minor leagues (i.e. the player is removed from the 40-man roster and sent to the minors). These are always irrevocable.
• Optional Assignment. Used when a player is optioned to the minors if it has been three or more years since the player was first added to the active roster (reduced by one year for each option year used prior to appearing on the active roster). These are revocable.
• Trade Assignment. Used when the player is being assigned from one major league club's roster to another (i.e. a trade). These are revocable.

If either an Optional Assignment and Trade Assignment waiver request is revoked, the club cannot request waivers again on that player for 30 days, and if that subsequent request is during the same waiver period the waiver become irrevocable.

The waiver periods are as follows:

• Trade Assignment: Aug. 1 through end of the regular season.
• Optional Assignment: Feb. 16 through 30th day of regular season; 31st day of regular season through July 31; Aug. 1 through Oct. 1.
• Outright Assignment: Feb. 16 through 30th day of regular season; 31st day of regular season through July 31; Aug. 1 through Aug. 31; Sept. 1 through end of regular season; first day after end of regular season through Nov. 10; Nov. 11 through Feb. 15.

Waivers obtained (i.e. no club puts in a claim) usually last to the end of the applicable waiver period for that type of waiver. The exceptions: outright assignment waivers obtained from Sept. 1 through 30th day of the subsequent regular season only last 7 days or until the end of the period, whichever comes first; trade assignment waivers obtained while a player is on optional assignment only last for three days after the claiming period expires.

The maximum number of players on which a club can request waivers on any one day is 7.