Giants new bats

jmaness84 · 01-28-2003, 07:27 PM

The Giants have gotten Cruz jr, Alphonzo, Durham. All they have lost that i know of is Kent and Lofton. Do you guys think they will be a better team this year than last?

fantom1979 · 01-28-2003, 07:35 PM

The only big problem I have with Cruz and Durham is that they strikeout alot. But so did Kent, so it probably equals itself out there.

jmaness84 · 01-28-2003, 07:37 PM

Dosent Durham walk a lot?

fantom1979 · 01-28-2003, 07:44 PM

73/93 BB/K last year .374 OBP

69/107 BB/K 162 average

Career .352 OBP

holyroller · 01-28-2003, 07:48 PM

The new bats will help, but the addition of Neifi Perez at second is going to be craptacular.

LivnLegend · 01-28-2003, 07:53 PM

Don’t forget Dodger castoff Marquis Grissom (who takes the place of another Dodgers castoff in Tom Goodwin) and Ruben Rivera the guy who stole equipment from former teammate Derek Jeter. The plan seems to be to have strikeout machine Grissom bat second and play nearly every day. Bad choice. His number of games played has dropped every year and at 36, he’s not getting any younger. Aurilia came back down to earth after an amazing 2001. Santiago will probably play like Santiago should play (poorly). The starting pitching staff looks like junk from here. Livian is junk. Rueter is getting to be worthless. I guess Christiansen is the ace? I guess there is a chance Moss or Jensen will be for real. We’ll see.

My opinion: Giants are a 4th place team this year.

holyroller · 01-28-2003, 09:00 PM

To be fair, Aurilia was hurt last year. I suspect that he will improve this year, although not to his 2001 level. I agree on Grissom and Santiago though. Carrying those two with Perez gives them three well below average hitters. Bonds can only make up for so much.

On the pitching side, their major league rotation is no great shakes, but they do have three of the best pitching propects in baseball who are ready or nearly so. Fopert, in particular, is being called the best pitching prospect in baseball, for what that's worth.

kingfc22 · 01-28-2003, 09:31 PM

Livinlegend, have you heard of a guy named Jason Schmidt??? Reuter is one of the most consistent lefties in all of baseball, only 4-5 have better records than him. Moss was solid as the #5 starter for the Braves. Jensen, Ainsworth or maybe even Jerome Williams might see action this year. The only guy I will agree with you on is Livan. That guy is a freaking bum. Don't be too excited. A Giants asskicking of your Dodgers is coming to a town near you in just 3 months.

CMH · 01-28-2003, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jmaness84
Dosent Durham walk a lot?

you can't believe everything you hear on Sportscenter.

Durham is an overrated leadoff man (i love using the word overrated, I really do - why? b/c it's very true for many players).

But the fact of the matter is that it's true. He is overrated. He's another Ichiro, just without the batting average and strong arm.

Crapshoot · 01-28-2003, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by YankeePride
you can't believe everything you hear on Sportscenter.

Durham is an overrated leadoff man (i love using the word overrated, I really do - why? b/c it's very true for many players).

But the fact of the matter is that it's true. He is overrated. He's another Ichiro, just without the batting average and strong arm.

An OPS of .825 at 2b, with above average defense, and he's overrated ? he's probably one of the most underrated players around.

Crapshoot · 01-28-2003, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fantom1979
The only big problem I have with Cruz and Durham is that they strikeout alot. But so did Kent, so it probably equals itself out there.

okay, here goes the strikeout rant. it should be noted that k's dont matter much for hitters; they're just an out, and are hardly more dangerous than a groundout that may or may not move the runner over. Also, k's mean that no double play has taken place as well. Jose Hernandez was the best SS in the NL last year, but idiotic writers (and fans who belived it) would have you think his 190 k's made him horrible. Any team who takes a shea hillebrand over a jose hernandez (based on last season) would have to be run by monkey's on crack. Fortunately, Allan Baird, Joe Gargogila and co do not meet these minimum qualifications.

GForce22 · 01-28-2003, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aadik
An OPS of .825 at 2b, with above average defense, and he's overrated ? he's probably one of the most underrated players around.

Yup...only 2B in the AL with a better OPS was Soriano, and he had an 80% success rate for steals (whatever that's worth to you). Really not sure about the overrated factor.

GH

GForce22 · 01-28-2003, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aadik
okay, here goes the strikeout rant. it should be noted that k's dont matter much for hitters; they're just an out, and are hardly more dangerous than a groundout that may or may not move the runner over. Also, k's mean that no double play has taken place as well. Jose Hernandez was the best SS in the NL last year, but idiotic writers (and fans who belived it) would have you think his 190 k's made him horrible. Any team who takes a shea hillebrand over a jose hernandez (based on last season) would have to be run by monkey's on crack. Fortunately, Allan Baird, Joe Gargogila and co do not meet these minimum qualifications.

Curious what your opinion then is of the Mets having passed on him because of the strikeouts (at least that's how it's been presented in the press here). The Mets may have an argument because they already have two guys striking out a ton in Vaughn and Burnitz. Hernandez probably would have hit in a row with those guys, and the three of them straight would be a rough situation.

GH

Rizon · 01-28-2003, 11:49 PM

And Livian Hernandez is still the 2nd best bat on that team.

Mark my word, they won't make .500 this year.

sixto · 01-28-2003, 11:51 PM

A players rate of hitting into GIDPs should be considered along with his K rate. If he strikes out 150 times and hits into 22 DPs, he's REALLY hurting you. Ideally a player with high Ks will have low DPs, meaning that he's not swinging at a lot of bad pitches and tapping out.

Many of us grew up fearing to strike out. I know in my case it sapped my power, made me a 6'0 singles hitter who grounded out to 2B and SS a lot. It's no different for major leaguers. If I'd have just swung the damn bat, and let them strike me out if they could manage to hit the outside corner, I'd have been a better player. So would Jason Tyner.

CMH · 01-28-2003, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aadik
An OPS of .825 at 2b, with above average defense, and he's overrated ? he's probably one of the most underrated players around.

I was only speakin about his leadoff skills. Which is why I compared him to Ichiro. Another player who shouldn't be a leadoff hitter.

holyroller · 01-29-2003, 12:01 AM

Okay then, name 5 traditional type leadoff hitters (high OBP, a lot of steals) who are better than Ichiro or Durham. The "true" leadoff hitter has gone the way of the dodo.

LivnLegend · 01-29-2003, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally coherently stated by Rizon
And Livian Hernandez is still the 2nd best bat on that team.

Mark my word, they won't make .500 this year.

Holy mother of mary, Rizon and I agree

Quote:

Originally babbled by kingfc22
Livinlegend, have you heard of a guy named Jason Schmidt??? Reuter is one of the most consistent lefties in all of baseball, only 4-5 have better records than him. Moss was solid as the #5 starter for the Braves. Jensen, Ainsworth or maybe even Jerome Williams might see action this year. The only guy I will agree with you on is Livan

Of course since you know you are arguing with a Dodgers fan, you know we will never agree on anything

Oh, except that Livian Hernandez is crap.

jmaness84 · 01-29-2003, 01:05 AM

Yea i forgot about grissom. I think Durham is a very good lead off man, although i dont watch many AL games.. Moss was unhittable last year. If he can get some control he could win the Cy Young! He had like one of the lowest opponents average in baseball. He was in the Randy and Curt radar in that category

holyroller · 01-29-2003, 02:01 AM

Hey jmaness, you might want to read this...

http://www.baseballstuff.com/fraser/articles/dips.html

01-28-2003, 07:27 PM	#1
jmaness84 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,685	Giants new bats The Giants have gotten Cruz jr, Alphonzo, Durham. All they have lost that i know of is Kent and Lofton. Do you guys think they will be a better team this year than last?

01-28-2003, 07:35 PM	#2
fantom1979 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 3,498	The only big problem I have with Cruz and Durham is that they strikeout alot. But so did Kent, so it probably equals itself out there. __________________

01-28-2003, 07:44 PM	#4
fantom1979 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 3,498	73/93 BB/K last year .374 OBP 69/107 BB/K 162 average Career .352 OBP __________________

01-28-2003, 07:53 PM	#6
LivnLegend Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: 100% pure adrenaline! Posts: 5,624	Don’t forget Dodger castoff Marquis Grissom (who takes the place of another Dodgers castoff in Tom Goodwin) and Ruben Rivera the guy who stole equipment from former teammate Derek Jeter. The plan seems to be to have strikeout machine Grissom bat second and play nearly every day. Bad choice. His number of games played has dropped every year and at 36, he’s not getting any younger. Aurilia came back down to earth after an amazing 2001. Santiago will probably play like Santiago should play (poorly). The starting pitching staff looks like junk from here. Livian is junk. Rueter is getting to be worthless. I guess Christiansen is the ace? I guess there is a chance Moss or Jensen will be for real. We’ll see. My opinion: Giants are a 4th place team this year. __________________ Excess ain't rebellion. You're drinking what they're selling.

01-28-2003, 09:00 PM	#7
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	To be fair, Aurilia was hurt last year. I suspect that he will improve this year, although not to his 2001 level. I agree on Grissom and Santiago though. Carrying those two with Perez gives them three well below average hitters. Bonds can only make up for so much. On the pitching side, their major league rotation is no great shakes, but they do have three of the best pitching propects in baseball who are ready or nearly so. Fopert, in particular, is being called the best pitching prospect in baseball, for what that's worth. __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”

01-28-2003, 07:37 PM	#3
jmaness84 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,685	Dosent Durham walk a lot?

01-28-2003, 07:48 PM	#5
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	The new bats will help, but the addition of Neifi Perez at second is going to be craptacular. __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”

01-28-2003, 09:31 PM	#8
kingfc22 All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Fremont, CA Posts: 651	Livinlegend, have you heard of a guy named Jason Schmidt??? Reuter is one of the most consistent lefties in all of baseball, only 4-5 have better records than him. Moss was solid as the #5 starter for the Braves. Jensen, Ainsworth or maybe even Jerome Williams might see action this year. The only guy I will agree with you on is Livan. That guy is a freaking bum. Don't be too excited. A Giants asskicking of your Dodgers is coming to a town near you in just 3 months. __________________ GO GIANTS GO NINERS GO LAKERS GO BLUE CUBL - Red Earth Firebirds 2000 CL Central Champs NABL - Washington Senators now Buffalo Bandits

01-28-2003, 11:49 PM	#14
Rizon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: SF Area, California Total Posts: 531,691 Posts: 2,370	And Livian Hernandez is still the 2nd best bat on that team. Mark my word, they won't make .500 this year. __________________ JML MILKSHAKES

01-28-2003, 11:51 PM	#15
sixto Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,273	A players rate of hitting into GIDPs should be considered along with his K rate. If he strikes out 150 times and hits into 22 DPs, he's REALLY hurting you. Ideally a player with high Ks will have low DPs, meaning that he's not swinging at a lot of bad pitches and tapping out. Many of us grew up fearing to strike out. I know in my case it sapped my power, made me a 6'0 singles hitter who grounded out to 2B and SS a lot. It's no different for major leaguers. If I'd have just swung the damn bat, and let them strike me out if they could manage to hit the outside corner, I'd have been a better player. So would Jason Tyner.

01-29-2003, 12:01 AM	#17
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	Okay then, name 5 traditional type leadoff hitters (high OBP, a lot of steals) who are better than Ichiro or Durham. The "true" leadoff hitter has gone the way of the dodo. __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”

01-29-2003, 01:05 AM	#19
jmaness84 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,685	Yea i forgot about grissom. I think Durham is a very good lead off man, although i dont watch many AL games.. Moss was unhittable last year. If he can get some control he could win the Cy Young! He had like one of the lowest opponents average in baseball. He was in the Randy and Curt radar in that category

01-29-2003, 02:01 AM	#20
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	Hey jmaness, you might want to read this... http://www.baseballstuff.com/fraser/articles/dips.html __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”