Minors and the DL

[sc_superstar]

Is there any way to stop minor league managers from putting guys on the 60-Day DL?

I like to have them manage my minors in any MLB Style games and just keep up with my ML Club and my better prospects, This becomes especially annoying with guys who are out of options or have the ability to refuse minors assignment. It serves them no purpose to put guys on the 60 day because they are gone from the roster regardless of which DL they go on

[olivertheorem]

I assume these are guys on your 40-man roster who are down in AAA?

[sc_superstar]

Yes, and when they come off the 60-day DL its a hassle getting them back to AAA

[bwburke94]

The bug is not that they are going on the 60-day DL; they are on the 40-man roster and the 60-day DL removes them from it, opening a spot. The bug is that they can't go back to AAA immediately, even if there is a spot open on the 40-man roster.

I'll need to check to make sure they are not getting ML service time while on the minor league 60-day DL, and that players with no option years in such a scenario are handled correctly.

[sc_superstar]

my concern isnt necessarily the roster spot. If that AAA manager wants a roster spot, One of two things should happen IMO.

1) I should get a notification for anyone on my 40-man roster is injured not just my 25-man

2) The AAA manager should automatically use the 7-day DL for their injuries and if I need the 40-man spot, i can transfer said player or another of my choosing to the 60-day DL to open that spot on the 40-man.

My point is the 40-man roster does not affect the minor league rosters at all, so when the AI is controlling the minors it should not use the 60-day DL. That would be solely up to the ML Manager and GM who is or is not on the 40-man roster.

Also minor league players can not be put on the 60-day DL in the MLB, the 60-day DL is for Major League players needing to be replaced when the team has a full 40-man active roster.

"injuries. Players who are on the 40-man roster but get hurt in the minor leagues are placed on the minor league DL, but not on the major league DL. One problem this poses is that a player who is injured in the minors and who would be placed on the major league 60-day DL cannot be placed on the 60-day, meaning the 40-man roster spot is not freed up."

[olivertheorem]

1 is a good idea. I like it.

Your last non-italic sentence is a little off, though. If you have a player on the 40-man but in the minors and he gets hurt bad enough, and you have need to add another guy to the 40-man (or want the option available), then he can go on the 60-day DL.

[sc_superstar]

All i was saying is as per MLB rules a player needs to meet one of two criteria to go on the 60-Day DL

1) They are on the 25 man roster

or

2) They are on the 40-man roster but currently on the 15-day DL (transfer to 60-day)

A player that is in AAA already can NOT be placed on the 60-Day DL.

All i am looking at is making it so when the option is set for Minor League Managers to manage their own lineups that they only use the 7-Day DL as would happen IRL.

[sc_superstar]

Originally Posted by olivertheorem

1 is a good idea. I like it.

Your last non-italic sentence is a little off, though. If you have a player on the 40-man but in the minors and he gets hurt bad enough, and you have need to add another guy to the 40-man (or want the option available), then he can go on the 60-day DL.

Yeah its a wierd rule, but basically what the MLB rule is.

If you have less than 40 guys on your 40-man roster and you can call up a replacemnet without needing another roster spot, then you can't use the 60 day DL

Example: Toronto Blue Jays have 39 men on their 40-man roster. Jose Bautista gets hurt. Bautista is placed on 15-day DL regardless of the severity of the injury. Anthony Gose gets added and now there are 40 men on the roster. Gose gets hurt, and needs to go on the DL too. But now they would have to remove someone from the 40-man if they dont have a replacement on their 40-man already. This is where the 60-Day DL comes in.

If either Gose or Bautista has an injury that will keep them out longer than the 60 days they would need to be on the DL, then either can be put there to free up their 40-man spot, allowing the team to add another player without exposing someone to waivers.

If Gose was on the 40-man but in AAA. If he got hurt, He doesn't go on the 60-day DL regardless of severity because a AAA uses players already in the minor league system and does not need to use the 40-man roster.

Basically the 60-Day DL is only to add a player to your 25 man roster that is not on your 40-man roster already. (it frees up a 40-man spot for the call-up)

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by bwburke94

The bug is not that they are going on the 60-day DL; they are on the 40-man roster and the 60-day DL removes them from it, opening a spot. The bug is that they can't go back to AAA immediately, even if there is a spot open on the 40-man roster.

The first thing to remember is that in real life a player only goes on the major league DL (15- or 60-day) if he's on the (25-man) active roster at the time of the injury. If he's on option to the minors and playing with a minor league club, then he goes on the minor league DL (of which there is a 7-day and 60-day).

The problem is that OOTP only models the 7-day minor league DL; it does not recreate the 60-day one. Which means when an AI club is confronted with a long-term injury to a player on the 40-man but who's on option to a minor league club, it sticks him on the major league 60-day DL. Thus the player starts acquiring ML service time and you have the issues when it comes time to reinstate the player from the DL.

There are two ways the game could fix this: (1) implement a minor league 60-day DL; or (2) tell the AI that for a player injured in the minors, the 7-day DL is entirely sufficient regardless of how long the injury is expected to last.

(The minor league 60-day DL in real life works just like the major league one in that a player added to it no longer counts against the minor league club's reserve roster limit. In Triple-A, for example, the active limit is 25 but the reserve limit—analogous to the majors' 40-man—is 38 players. But from what I understand as a practical matter minor league club don't come anywhere close to filling up their limit during the season, and thus don't really need the freeing up of a reserve roster spot the way major league clubs do.)

[sc_superstar]

I think since OOTP does not replicate the minor league reserve roster system that removing the ability to place someone on option on the 60-day DL would suffice.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by sc_superstar

I think since OOTP does not replicate the minor league reserve roster system that removing the ability to place someone on option on the 60-day DL would suffice.

If you're talking about removing the AI's ability to put someone on the 60-day DL, that's fine by me. But for my purposes, I still want to be able to do that.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

If you're talking about removing the AI's ability to put someone on the 60-day DL, that's fine by me. But for my purposes, I still want to be able to do that.

But you should not be able to put a player in the minor leagues onto the 60-day major league DL. That cannot be done in real life. If the player is with a minor league club he goes onto the minor league DL. That's how it should work.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

But you should not be able to put a player in the minor leagues onto the 60-day major league DL. That cannot be done in real life. If the player is with a minor league club he goes onto the minor league DL. That's how it should work.

I admit I'm no expert, but I've never heard of a separate minor league 60-day DL as you mentioned earlier. I know OOTP does some things differently, but I've never heard of two different 60-day DLs.

My understanding is that the 60-day DL is only available for players on the 40-man major league roster, whether they're on the active 25-man roster or in the minors. Therefore, if a minor leaguer who's on the 40-man roster is out for an extended period and my 40-man roster is full, I should have the option to put him on the 60-day DL, as in real life.

This is the exact case in real life with two pitchers on the Yankees' 40-man roster -- Cesar Cabral and Brad Meyers. Neither has been even close to reaching the big leagues, but they are on the 60-day DL because they were injured and were on the 40-man roster.

Here's a link to the Yankees' 40-man roster, which shows this: 40-Man Roster | yankees.com: Team

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I admit I'm no expert, but I've never heard of a separate minor league 60-day DL as you mentioned earlier. I know OOTP does some things differently, but I've never heard of two different 60-day DLs.

There is a 60-day minor league DL, and it serves the same purpose as the major league version; see MLR 2 (h) (1). The difference is there is little need to free up roster spots in the minors as compared to the majors, so the 60-day minor league version is rarely used.

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

This is the exact case in real life with two pitchers on the Yankees' 40-man roster -- Cesar Cabral and Brad Meyers. Neither has been even close to reaching the big leagues, but they are on the 60-day DL because they were injured and were on the 40-man roster.

Since according to the transaction records neither player had been optioned to the minor leagues prior to their placement on the DL, that means by definition they were on the active roster and thus eligible to be placed on the major league DL. So that's why they were on the major league DL.

Both players appear to have been added to the 15-day DL on April 4th, before the regular season had opened. The DL assignments were retroactive, to March 31st in the case of Cabral and March 26th in the case of Myers. Both were transferred to the 60-day DL in May.

There are strict rules about assigning an injured player (whether he's on or off the DL) to the minor leagues. That's likely why the Yankees couldn't option them to the minors and thus had to keep them on the active roster and put them on the major league DL.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

There is a 60-day minor league DL, and it serves the same purpose as the major league version; see MLR 2 (h) (1). The difference is there is little need to free up roster spots in the minors as compared to the majors, so the 60-day minor league version is rarely used.

Since according to the transaction records neither player had been optioned to the minor leagues prior to their placement on the DL, that means by definition they were on the active roster and thus eligible to be placed on the major league DL. So that's why they were on the major league DL.

Both players appear to have been added to the 15-day DL on April 4th, before the regular season had opened. The DL assignments were retroactive, to March 31st in the case of Cabral and March 26th in the case of Myers. Both were transferred to the 60-day DL in May.

There are strict rules about assigning an injured player (whether he's on or off the DL) to the minor leagues. That's likely why the Yankees couldn't option them to the minors and thus had to keep them on the active roster and put them on the major league DL.

OK, that all makes sense to me. But it still doesn't explain to me why, in OOTP, I shouldn't be able to put a minor league player who is on my 40-man roster on the 60-day DL. I understand OOTP doesn't handle it the same as real life, but if the game is not going to include this apparent minor league 60-day DL (sorry, I don't own an MLB rule book), we need to have the ability to put anyone on the 40-man roster on the 60-day DL if need be, not just guys on the active 25-man roster.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

... (sorry, I don't own an MLB rule book) ...

You can download a PDF copy of the 2008 edition of the Major League Rules from The Biz of Baseball web site. Here's the direct link: 2008 MLR download page.

Note that the recent CBA changed some of the rules, most notably Rule 4 which pertains to the amateur draft.

[sc_superstar]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

OK, that all makes sense to me. But it still doesn't explain to me why, in OOTP, I shouldn't be able to put a minor league player who is on my 40-man roster on the 60-day DL. I understand OOTP doesn't handle it the same as real life, but if the game is not going to include this apparent minor league 60-day DL (sorry, I don't own an MLB rule book), we need to have the ability to put anyone on the 40-man roster on the 60-day DL if need be, not just guys on the active 25-man roster.

The point of the thread was to bring up a problem not with the way the rules work and OOTP's variation on them. But how certain AI functions handle the rules.

Since the game does not use the minor league reserve system and any player can be called to any level at any time. A minor league 60-day DL is an irrelevant issue. It does exist, but is not something that has a huge impact.

Even if we took away that ability to put optioned 40-man players on the 60-Day DL, there are still work arounds to it. But why would someone need to remove a player from the 40-man roster to replace someone who is on an option.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by sc_superstar

But why would someone need to remove a player from the 40-man roster to replace someone who is on an option.

Especially since (in real life at least) a player on option is not acquiring major league service time whereas when on the 60-day DL he is.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by sc_superstar

The point of the thread was to bring up a problem not with the way the rules work and OOTP's variation on them. But how certain AI functions handle the rules.

Since the game does not use the minor league reserve system and any player can be called to any level at any time. A minor league 60-day DL is an irrelevant issue. It does exist, but is not something that has a huge impact.

Even if we took away that ability to put optioned 40-man players on the 60-Day DL, there are still work arounds to it. But why would someone need to remove a player from the 40-man roster to replace someone who is on an option.

I understand what the OP was about. Seems to me the solution is to keep the AI from putting minor leaguers on a human controlled team on the 60-day DL.

To answer your last question, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about being able to remove a minor leaguer from the 40-man roster (via the 60-day DL) in order to add someone else to the 40-man and then add him to the 25-man roster. Because of the Rule V draft, sometimes a player is added to the 40-man to protect him, but he's not ready for a call-up to the bigs. So sometimes a team will want to call up someone who's not on the 40-man because he's the best player at that position. So if a minor leaguer who is on the 40-man is eligible to be moved to the 60-day to free up that 40-man spot, that ability to do so should be there.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Because of the Rule V draft, sometimes a player is added to the 40-man to protect him, but he's not ready for a call-up to the bigs. So sometimes a team will want to call up someone who's not on the 40-man because he's the best player at that position. So if a minor leaguer who is on the 40-man is eligible to be moved to the 60-day to free up that 40-man spot, that ability to do so should be there.

You shouldn't have to do anything like that because in real life the DLs stop working after the end of the regular season. (By rule any player on the 60-day DL must be activated from it no later than Nov. 20th, the date for filing the reserve lists.) The DLs start functioning again early in spring training.

During the off-season there is only the 40-man roster. No disabled lists, no players on option.

Unfortunately OOTP doesn't get this aspect of the off-season correct as yet.