The Pitch Around that isn't

[ohms_law]

I'm not one to complain about stuff like this (ever!), but I'm kinda worried about what might be a problem with the pitch around command.

Ike Davis isn't exactly being protected by the AI (it's got Scott Hairston batting after him, who's hitting .188/.233/.349 for the season!), so I figure "OK, I'll just pitch around him, and if he's walked it's no big deal." Well, here's what happened:


I tried to capture the Pitch Sequence screen, because it was an even more dramatic presentation of what I believe to be the problem, but unfortunately I pressed a key and it went to the next AB (duh!). The point though is that this sequence is anything but pitching around the batter! If you'd have seen the pitch locations... wow. The 1-0 and 1-1 called strikes were right down the pipe! and then, the 1-2 and 2-2 pitches were low(!!!) and inside!

It turned out OK in this case but, I mean... come on!


Neadless to say, I ripped Cory Luebke a new one when he returned to the dugout.

[ohms_law]

I will say this though: I probably shouldn't actually complain about anything from this game.



Boo yah!


I think my bats just woke up.

[ohms_law]

Here we go (where's my bud light? *snicker, snicker*):


I don't know about you, but this isn't how I define "pitching around a batter"...
This is what I'd call batting practice, from the looks of those pitch placements!

[olivertheorem]

1) That does not appear to be the same sequence. Your OP had back-to-back called strikes; that pic only has 1.

2) Aren't pitch locations just cosmetic anyway? That's what I always thought.

3) Even if they aren't, sometimes pitchers miss their spots.

[DCG12]

Originally Posted by olivertheorem

1) That does not appear to be the same sequence. Your OP had back-to-back called strikes; that pic only has 1

You are looking at the wrong sequence. He wasn't able to get a screen shot of the sequence in post #1. If you look at the sequence posted in his third post it does match with alternating balls and strikes.

[ohms_law]

I'm sure it's just cosmetic, but... yuck!
Heck, the entire PBP is basically cosmetic anyway.

[The Game]

Ohms what was the pitchers Control? In a defunct league an opposing team had a guy bating behind their best hitter batting .232 5 HR 21 RBI while the guy I pitch around or just flat out IBB was hitting .354 23 HR 76 RBI. I noticed that my #1 was able to get him to ground out or flat out walk him while Carlos Zambrano, Ervin Santana & Randy Wells have all given up at least 1 HR to him during pitch around. Those 3 pitchers, none had a control higher then 6 (1-10) I am not saying pitch around works great, even Schill complained about in on 12, but as with many things on OOTP there are many factors that go into the result.

[ohms_law]

I'm using 1-100 (I know, I know...), and Cory Luebke has 73/100 control.

I do realize, and everyone else should as well, that these individual at bat samples are essentially meaningless. Anything can happen in an individual at bat, after all.

Still, from a cosmetic standpoint, this stuff makes the game look bad. That's still important, because appearances can and do cause people to question the underlying mechanics.

[MizzouRah]

I don't believe pitch locations are cosmetic as I've seen PbP lines reference pitch locations and where balls have been hit would coincide with the location.

I will agree that pitch around never seems like a pitch around and I almost never see a walk. So.. I hardly use it, just walk the hitter if I want to pitch around.. lol

[funkadillo]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I don't believe pitch locations are cosmetic as I've seen PbP lines reference pitch locations and where balls have been hit would coincide with the location.

I will agree that pitch around never seems like a pitch around and I almost never see a walk. So.. I hardly use it, just walk the hitter if I want to pitch around.. lol

Am I the only one that never intentionally walks a guy? If I want to put him on I always just hit the batter.

It saves 3 pitches and there's a chance it injures the star player that I'm afraid to pitch to.

(Yes, I know I'm evil)

[olivertheorem]

Originally Posted by DCG12

You are looking at the wrong sequence. He wasn't able to get a screen shot of the sequence in post #1. If you look at the sequence posted in his third post it does match with alternating balls and strikes.

Oh yeah, right. My mistake.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by funkadillo

Am I the only one that never intentionally walks a guy? If I want to put him on I always just hit the batter.

It saves 3 pitches and there's a chance it injures the star player that I'm afraid to pitch to.

(Yes, I know I'm evil)

Doesn't that give the pitcher a warning?

[funkadillo]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Doesn't that give the pitcher a warning?

Nope. I do it regularly and have never been warned, tossed, or started a brawl. (Though I'm sure the later can happen)

I have injured the opposing player though, on multiple occasions. Sometimes you gotta do whatever it takes to win a playoff series.

[ohms_law]

Damn dude, that's just mean!
(gears start turning... )

[funkadillo]

Originally Posted by ohms_law

Damn dude, that's just mean!
(gears start turning... )

I've actually considered that if I was really willing to do anything to win a playoff series, and I was losing in a big blowout, I could put my worst reliever in and then bean the opponent's best players every single time they come up, hoping for either an injury or a brawl to start. (a brawl would get that star player and my reliever suspended.

Now THAT would be mean.

(And if I ever am down big in a series and getting blown out badly, I very well may try this. My competitiveness knows no limits. )

[ohms_law]

That might be fun to do once or twice, but... I don't know, for me that seems a bit gamey. In real life, your opponents would start painting targets on your batters, after all. I'm sure that the league would get involved real quick if something like this actually got started in MLB.

[funkadillo]

Originally Posted by ohms_law

That might be fun to do once or twice, but... I don't know, for me that seems a bit gamey. In real life, your opponents would start painting targets on your batters, after all. I'm sure that the league would get involved real quick if something like this actually got started in MLB.

Oh, of course. In real life I'd be banned from baseball for all of time if I was a manager and tried that.

I still may try it though someday, for fun.

[BIG17EASY]

I don't really see the problem with the one or two at bats you referenced. If every pitcher could throw the ball where he wanted on every pitch, hitting would be darn near impossible. So it's not surprising that a pitcher would throw strikes when using the "pitch around" function. Plus, in the diagram you posted, the ball in play is on the outside corner (and the foul ball (on a cutter that broke from off the plate) just nipped the outside corner or may have been called a ball if it wasn't swung at. And, five of six pitches were cutters, not fastballs. If the pitcher had thrown a bunch of fastballs that were over the heart of the plate, then maybe I'd see your point. But that's not what happened.

IMO, if you want the batter to be walked, just intentionally walk him.

[tds787]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I don't really see the problem with the one or two at bats you referenced. If every pitcher could throw the ball where he wanted on every pitch, hitting would be darn near impossible. So it's not surprising that a pitcher would throw strikes when using the "pitch around" function. Plus, in the diagram you posted, the ball in play is on the outside corner (and the foul ball (on a cutter that broke from off the plate) just nipped the outside corner or may have been called a ball if it wasn't swung at. And, five of six pitches were cutters, not fastballs. If the pitcher had thrown a bunch of fastballs that were over the heart of the plate, then maybe I'd see your point. But that's not what happened.

IMO, if you want the batter to be walked, just intentionally walk him.

If your pitching in the major leagues you should effectively be able to "pitch around" meaning "try to hit the corners, but lean towards the outside of the plate." Yes, pitchers miss their spots, batters swing at balls / borderline pitches, but overall pitching around should work.

I don't play out enough games to have an opinion here on whether or not it does work or not. The pitch location widget is purely cosmetic, so who can tell.

Pitching around should lead to more walks than hits though. Didn't Curt Schilling post something similar? I'll take his word on it's application in real life

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by tds787

If your pitching in the major leagues you should effectively be able to "pitch around" meaning "try to hit the corners, but lean towards the outside of the plate." Yes, pitchers miss their spots, batters swing at balls / borderline pitches, but overall pitching around should work.

I don't play out enough games to have an opinion here on whether or not it does work or not. The pitch location widget is purely cosmetic, so who can tell.

Pitching around should lead to more walks than hits though. Didn't Curt Schilling post something similar? I'll take his word on it's application in real life

I never said it shouldn't work at all. My point was that two at bats is way too small of a sample size to use as evidence that something doesn't work correctly in a game. Someone needs to bring us proof of something like "walks only happen 6.1% of the time when using the pitch around command" and then we'll have Markus' attention.

I've heard differing "expert" comments on if the pitch location widget is accurate, but regardless, the OP posted a screen shot of an at bat and called it batting practice when there was only one pitch over the heart of the plate, three out of the strike zone and two on the corner, one of which was extremely borderline. I'm simply trying to pull back the exaggeration and look at the issue for what it really is -- two at bats that didn't lead to walks when that was clearly the outcome the OP was looking for. IMO, it's common sense that if you want to walk a hitter, you intentionally walk him, not use the pitch around command and then complain when the hitter doesn't walk.