Catcher ERA and more

[Hank O]

An old article, but argues for more offense than defence at C:

Baseball Prospectus | Field General or Backstop?

Takeaways:

"Though we would colloquially say that game-calling doesn’t exist, it’s more accurate to say that if there is a true game-calling ability, it lies below the threshold of detection."

" Far from being the position with the lowest expected offense, it could flip to the other side of the defensive spectrum entirely, and become a place to hide a slow-footed slugger."

[Carlton]

Baseball Prospectus is filled with guys who could not throw a ball 60'6"

Yet, many others who don't play take their opinion over individuals who played the game all their lives...I don't understand that at all

A catcher needs to have a high pain threshold, have quick reaction, be a Shrink and a team motivational speaker

That article was a lot of math to determine something with too many intangibles

and I can thrash the whole article with one statement
You could have a catcher like Yadier Molina, but if 3 of his most talented pitchers are injured, his CERA will be garbage

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by Carlton

Baseball Prospectus is filled with guys who could not throw a ball 60'6"

Yet, many others who don't play take their opinion over individuals who played the game all their lives...I don't understand that at all

Amen, brother.

[Hank O]

Politician's and corporate executive's performance was as transparent as a baseball player's...

With no blade of grass to hide behind, they'd be on the bus to Cedar Rapids tomorrow--or on waivers pending.

[ELDoro]

I'm huge on the new wave of thinking throughout the baseball world. I love the new stats, graphs, ect that open eyes to newer ways of thought.

HOWEVER

There is no way I agree with this at all. I'm huge on catchers affecting pitchers. No matter what job, position, sport, ect some people will do things better than others. Catchers may call pitches better, set up in better places, give the pitcher a better target, or give a pitcher more confidence that even if he bounces a breaking ball in the dirt this guy behind the plate is good enough to dig it out.

[termcl]

Originally Posted by Carlton

A catcher needs to have a high pain threshold, have quick reaction, be a Shrink and a team motivational speaker

That article was a lot of math to determine something with too many intangibles

Case in point: A. J. Pierzynski and the plethora of rookie pitchers on the White Sox this season.

[fhomess]

Originally Posted by Carlton

You could have a catcher like Yadier Molina, but if 3 of his most talented pitchers are injured, his CERA will be garbage

This is why CERA is supposed to be compared to other teammates. It's in the comparison that CERA becomes somewhat useful in determining whether or not the catcher is actually influencing his pitchers positively compared to his peers. Most articles I've read on the subject are hesitant to draw strong conclusions because the data isn't all that good and one season's worth of data usually isn't enough. Especially when you're looking at teammates with wildly differing playing time.

[olivertheorem]

Not to mention that's a 12-year-old article in the OP. In the last year alone, BP's statistical grasp of catcher defense has grown by leaps and bounds, mostly as I recall due to studies of catcher framing as a skill.

[Carlton]

Originally Posted by fhomess

This is why CERA is supposed to be compared to other teammates. It's in the comparison that CERA becomes somewhat useful in determining whether or not the catcher is actually influencing his pitchers positively compared to his peers. Most articles I've read on the subject are hesitant to draw strong conclusions because the data isn't all that good and one season's worth of data usually isn't enough. Especially when you're looking at teammates with wildly differing playing time.

Again, what if Molina's backup has 5 appearances that month, and had a pitcher having a great day due to a weak team etc. His CERA will be greatly skewed. Same with Molina if he is in there against the top teams.

AND say Molina's personality would work with 70% of pitchers, but he has 5 of the 30%. He will not be effective. It's all relative. Much like a catcher's arm. If a C is known for his arm, his CS% will not reflect that, because speedsters will not test him, only taking the high % SB attempt.

It's so complicated that trying to put it in a neat little formula is a incredulous

I am not an enemy of advanced metrics, but scouting,experience must not be totally dismissed in favor of them. Absolutes are never a good thing. For catchers, trust the manager and players. When they say a catcher is a good catcher in loud majority then give them the benefit of the doubt

[fhomess]

Originally Posted by Carlton

Again, what if Molina's backup has 5 appearances that month, and had a pitcher having a great day due to a weak team etc. His CERA will be greatly skewed. Same with Molina if he is in there against the top teams.

AND say Molina's personality would work with 70% of pitchers, but he has 5 of the 30%. He will not be effective. It's all relative. Much like a catcher's arm. If a C is known for his arm, his CS% will not reflect that, because speedsters will not test him, only taking the high % SB attempt.

It's so complicated that trying to put it in a neat little formula is a incredulous

I am not an enemy of advanced metrics, but scouting,experience must not be totally dismissed in favor of them. Absolutes are never a good thing. For catchers, trust the manager and players. When they say a catcher is a good catcher in loud majority then give them the benefit of the doubt

I agree with all of this. I simply felt that your original statement was misleading. Just because a stat can't be applied universally doesn't mean it's not informative when understood in the appropriate context.

[Ceej]

Originally Posted by olivertheorem

Not to mention that's a 12-year-old article in the OP. In the last year alone, BP's statistical grasp of catcher defense has grown by leaps and bounds, mostly as I recall due to studies of catcher framing as a skill.

Yes, Max Marchi has written a number of interesting articles since last year about catcher defense, first about framing pitches (Part 1, Part 2, Part 3) and earlier this year on BP about handling pitching staffs along the lines of the catcher ERA concept (here and here).