Are complete games important to Pitchers?

Nugget699 · 04-14-2012, 09:45 PM

As the title says really.

I just had a game where the Pitcher went 8 and a third innings giving up just 3 hits, walking 1 and fanning 5. He had thrown 87 pitches by now with a stamina of 11 (out of 20), so he was probably exhausted.

He gave up back-to-back singles in the 9th whilst winning 3-0 and then struck-out his 6th pitcher. So he had 1-more out for a complete game shutout and had thrown 95 pitches.

The AI then subs in the Closer who gets the final out with a pop fly. Surely the AI would've left him in to try and get the final out?

Would I have to change the league strategy from Very Often for use of Relievers and Closers to just "Often", to get more complete games in cases like this?

RchW · 04-14-2012, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget699

As the title says really.

I just had a game where the Pitcher went 8 and a third innings giving up just 3 hits, walking 1 and fanning 5. He had thrown 87 pitches by now with a stamina of 11 (out of 20), so he was probably exhausted.

He gave up back-to-back singles in the 9th whilst winning 3-0 and then struck-out his 6th pitcher. So he had 1-more out for a complete game shutout and had thrown 95 pitches.

The AI then subs in the Closer who gets the final out with a pop fly. Surely the AI would've left him in to try and get the final out?

Would I have to change the league strategy from Very Often for use of Relievers and Closers to just "Often", to get more complete games in cases like this?

11/20 is pretty low stamina. I can't dispute the AI on this one.

OutS|der · 04-14-2012, 10:05 PM

One more out with the tying run up to bat, and he did just give up those 2 singles so i'd of sat him to.

Nugget699 · 04-14-2012, 10:35 PM

But surely they would've pulled him straight after the second single, as opposed to waiting for him to get the second out, first?

RchW · 04-14-2012, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugget699

But surely they would've pulled him straight after the second single, as opposed to waiting for him to get the second out, first?

Not really he would have been at or below 90 pitches.

cody8200 · 04-14-2012, 11:10 PM

I could see this going either way. In real life, Matt Garza (of the Cubs) got pulled 2 days ago after throwing a 3 hit shutout with 1 out left in the 9th after making a fielding error (that would have ended the game). He had 120 pitches and the manager pulled him even though they were up 8-0.

RchW · 04-14-2012, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody8200

I could see this going either way. In real life, Matt Garza (of the Cubs) got pulled 2 days ago after throwing a 3 hit shutout with 1 out left in the 9th after making a fielding error (that would have ended the game). He had 120 pitches and the manager pulled him even though they were up 8-0.

That's a no-brainer. Why have your pitcher throw 15-25 pitches for no reason. Winning is the game not CG.

cody8200 · 04-14-2012, 11:40 PM

I agree. No use messing up a guys arm. Garza wasn't too happy though.

damientheomen3 · 04-15-2012, 12:46 AM

I've seen something to this effect a few times in OOTP 13. The game pulled my SP in the 9th despite not a ton of pitches because he was in trouble and a save situation arose, so it brought in my closer. Doesn't really bother me, although I do find it funny seeing my guys get 1 pitch saves sometimes.

Charlie Hough · 04-15-2012, 01:28 AM

When statistics potentially determine your Hall of Fame status, your contract negotiations, your receipt of awards from the media, and other factors that impact your pay and reputation, you'd better believe that pitchers care about these things and about being pulled with an 8-0 lead and a shutout going.

This kind of overmanaging and coddling is absolutely absurd, and it's a disgrace to the game of baseball.

If you can't throw more than 120 pitches without damaging your arm, then you're not a baseball pitcher or a true athlete. You belong in a recreational softball league.

RchW · 04-15-2012, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

When statistics potentially determine your Hall of Fame status, your contract negotiations, your receipt of awards from the media, and other factors that impact your pay and reputation, you'd better believe that pitchers care about these things and about being pulled with an 8-0 lead and a shutout going.

This kind of overmanaging and coddling is absolutely absurd, and it's a disgrace to the game of baseball.

If you can't throw more than 120 pitches without damaging your arm, then you're not a baseball pitcher or a true athlete. You belong in a recreational softball league.

That's a little over the top. Most pitchers have no choice in the matter. The Baseball teams they play for set the rules for what they can do.

megamanmatt · 04-15-2012, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

That's a little over the top. Most pitchers have no choice in the matter. The Baseball teams they play for set the rules for what they can do.

Seriously. No one is going to jeopardize a multimillion dollar investment simply because it might increase the guy's chance to get into the HoF. Period. End of story.

OutS|der · 04-15-2012, 05:30 AM

The closer needs those saves to get into the HOF as well
The Manager needs the wins to get in
Am sure each of them care but in the end the win counts for more

BusterKing · 04-15-2012, 05:41 AM

I also bring in relievers due to the possible injury factor.

120 pitches this game, throwing too many pitches may mean that he might not be totally rested for his next start. Also, over the year, more innings/pitches thrown might cause a serious injury and losing him for the playoffs.

Just my 2 cents.

04-14-2012, 09:45 PM	#1
Nugget699 Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Sydney Posts: 444	Are complete games important to Pitchers? As the title says really. I just had a game where the Pitcher went 8 and a third innings giving up just 3 hits, walking 1 and fanning 5. He had thrown 87 pitches by now with a stamina of 11 (out of 20), so he was probably exhausted. He gave up back-to-back singles in the 9th whilst winning 3-0 and then struck-out his 6th pitcher. So he had 1-more out for a complete game shutout and had thrown 95 pitches. The AI then subs in the Closer who gets the final out with a pop fly. Surely the AI would've left him in to try and get the final out? Would I have to change the league strategy from Very Often for use of Relievers and Closers to just "Often", to get more complete games in cases like this?

04-14-2012, 11:10 PM	#6
cody8200 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,436	I could see this going either way. In real life, Matt Garza (of the Cubs) got pulled 2 days ago after throwing a 3 hit shutout with 1 out left in the 9th after making a fielding error (that would have ended the game). He had 120 pitches and the manager pulled him even though they were up 8-0. __________________ Sharp Guys Web Design - Twitter: @sharpguysweb

04-14-2012, 11:40 PM	#8
cody8200 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,436	I agree. No use messing up a guys arm. Garza wasn't too happy though. __________________ Sharp Guys Web Design - Twitter: @sharpguysweb

04-14-2012, 10:05 PM	#3
OutS\|der Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: In A Van Down By The River Posts: 2,778 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	One more out with the tying run up to bat, and he did just give up those 2 singles so i'd of sat him to.

04-14-2012, 10:35 PM	#4
Nugget699 Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Sydney Posts: 444	But surely they would've pulled him straight after the second single, as opposed to waiting for him to get the second out, first?

04-15-2012, 01:28 AM	#10
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,646	When statistics potentially determine your Hall of Fame status, your contract negotiations, your receipt of awards from the media, and other factors that impact your pay and reputation, you'd better believe that pitchers care about these things and about being pulled with an 8-0 lead and a shutout going. This kind of overmanaging and coddling is absolutely absurd, and it's a disgrace to the game of baseball. If you can't throw more than 120 pitches without damaging your arm, then you're not a baseball pitcher or a true athlete. You belong in a recreational softball league.

04-15-2012, 05:30 AM	#13
OutS\|der Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: In A Van Down By The River Posts: 2,778 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	The closer needs those saves to get into the HOF as well The Manager needs the wins to get in Am sure each of them care but in the end the win counts for more

04-15-2012, 05:41 AM	#14
BusterKing Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,437	I also bring in relievers due to the possible injury factor. 120 pitches this game, throwing too many pitches may mean that he might not be totally rested for his next start. Also, over the year, more innings/pitches thrown might cause a serious injury and losing him for the playoffs. Just my 2 cents.