Yankees sign another SP

Hammer755 · 01-22-2003, 03:03 PM

Yanks sign SP Jon Lieber to a two-year deal, even though he probably won't pitch in '03.

Report: Yankees agree to terms with RHP Lieber

sixto · 01-22-2003, 03:19 PM

This reminds me of our fantasy league, where we realized that imposing $2 and $5 and even $25 penalties for making "unfair" deals were pointless because if somebody wants to win badly and stands a great chance to win $250 by spending $30, it doesn't matter what kind of penalty or luxury tax or what you impose.

I've always been against revenue sharing, but maybe baseball should go to a revenue sharing plan. Cap every team's revenue at X, with X being a fair number. The overage goes into a World Series fund. The pennant winners split the overage 70-20. The other playoffs split the remaining 10%, the rest of the teams get nothing. Of course, some team owners would just pocket that money (Hi Pohlad), but theoretically it would be harder to get it in the first place.

It's not an airtight plan but I think it's got potential.

holyroller · 01-22-2003, 03:21 PM

In the interest of full disclosure, Lieber will not pitch until the end of the season, if at all, due to injury.

billycola · 01-22-2003, 07:16 PM

How did he pass his physical???

CMH · 01-23-2003, 01:36 PM

I think him passing the physical was based on how he's progressed since the surgery.

I guess they were making sure there is nothing else wrong with him.

-----

BTW, this is a deal that I like. I think this makes sense.

This is like an offseason signing for next year. With Pettitte, like gone after this year, Clemens, Hitchcock (i think), and Wells all gone next year this makes a whole lot of sense.

That leaves Mussina, Contreras, Weaver, Lieber. Not as scary as the rotation in the past but there's an open spot to fill there.

crackpott · 01-23-2003, 02:41 PM

The Yankees are making sure their Columbus rotation is set, and will cost them more than some other major league teams.

CMH · 01-23-2003, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crackpott
The Yankees are making sure their Columbus rotation is set, and will cost them more than some other major league teams.

lol, hey you said it yourself. Our farm pitchers (and players for that matter) are overrated. So maybe the Yankees are tryin to build it back up.

TotalEnd98 · 01-23-2003, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by YankeePride
With Pettitte, like gone after this year

Assuming that's "likely," not "like," I disagree. First off, I believe Pettitte is better than many people give him credit for, and I think they'll keep him around for a while. Realize that Pettitte could have been a free agent after 2002 was over, but the Yankees picked up his $11.5 million dollar option. That makes him the second-highest paid pitcher on the staff, I believe (behind Mussina). Don't you think that if they were thinking of letting him go, they would have saved the $11.5 million and gone with Mussina/Clemens/Contreras/Wells/Weaver for 2003?

That said, I think if Pettite puts together a poor season, he'll be gone. But anything average or better, and he'll wear the pinstripes again come 2004.

CMH · 01-23-2003, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TotalEnd98
Assuming that's "likely," not "like," I disagree. First off, I believe Pettitte is better than many people give him credit for, and I think they'll keep him around for a while. Realize that Pettitte could have been a free agent after 2002 was over, but the Yankees picked up his $11.5 million dollar option. That makes him the second-highest paid pitcher on the staff, I believe (behind Mussina). Don't you think that if they were thinking of letting him go, they would have saved the $11.5 million and gone with Mussina/Clemens/Contreras/Wells/Weaver for 2003?

That said, I think if Pettite puts together a poor season, he'll be gone. But anything average or better, and he'll wear the pinstripes again come 2004.

yea it was suppose to be likely, i was thinkin ahead while typin.

and i agree. if pettitte has a strong season then he'll return. but the Yankees are also concerned about his health, weight, and arm strength. If Pettitte shows signs of last year's problems, I doubt the Yanks will bring him back.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 01-24-2003, 03:45 AM

Sixto: regarding your revenue sharing comment....

Bill James has an excellent article in his new Historical Abstract about the inequities in revenue and how to fix them. Essentially, he argues that revenue sharing is pointless, because you're just subsidizing idiots like Pohlad and whoever's pretending to run Selig's team for him. Instead, the TV money should be split more fairly, as is done in every other sport, so that small-market teams can compete if they're clever, and it's not just a welfare system where the wealthy pay the stupid.

jmaness84 · 01-24-2003, 07:31 PM

I hate the Yankees. Any descent fantasy leaguer could put a World Series championship team on the field if they have 50% higher payroll than the next highest team!! Brian Cashman, Joe Torre, and George Steinbrener are all pathetic!!!

CommishJoe · 01-24-2003, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jmaness84
I hate the Yankees. Any descent fantasy leaguer could put a World Series championship team on the field if they have 50% higher payroll than the next highest team!! Brian Cashman, Joe Torre, and George Steinbrener are all pathetic!!!

Oh really? Now why should Joe Torre be lumped into it? He won in '96, '98 and '99 before Steiny got his mitts back on the team. ESPECIALLY '96, with the saviors being Pettitte and O'Neill (can't say those guys were bought). Nothing pathetic about that, and there is nothing pathetic about Torre.

AngelinOF · 01-24-2003, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CommishJoe
Oh really? Now why should Joe Torre be lumped into it? He won in '96, '98 and '99 before Steiny got his mitts back on the team. ESPECIALLY '96, with the saviors being Pettitte and O'Neill (can't say those guys were bought). Nothing pathetic about that, and there is nothing pathetic about Torre.

Umm in 1996 the Yankees had the highest payroll, 6 million more than the Baltimore Orioles.
1997 they again had the highest payroll, 8.5 million more than Baltimore, and 20 million more than eventual WS winner Florida.
1998 they had the second highest payroll 850k behind Baltimore.
And in 1999 they once again had the higest payroll, 11 million more than the Texas Rangers.

Joe Torre without the Yankees payroll is nothing more than a mediocre manager, 100 games under .500 (894-1003, .470 winning percent.)

jmaness84 · 01-24-2003, 11:26 PM

How come Torre didnt do so good with the Braves and Cardinals?? Might not have bought Pettite and O'Neil, but they did buy Hayes, Girardi, Strawberry, Duncan, Key (I Believe), Wetteland, Tino, etc..

CommishJoe · 01-24-2003, 11:31 PM

Oh yeah, big time all-stars getting big time money here..

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1996.shtml

Cecil Fielder's $9m and Ruben Sierra's $6m lead the team <sarcasm> and thank goodness they had them!! </sarcasm>

3 total all stars with Pettitte, Wetteland and Boggs.

Yeah, this team was completely loaded *rolleyes*

CommishJoe · 01-24-2003, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jmaness84
How come Torre didnt do so good with the Braves and Cardinals?? Might not have bought Pettite and O'Neil, but they did buy Hayes, Girardi, Strawberry, Duncan, Key (I Believe), Wetteland, Tino, etc..

Tino was traded for.

I don't remember how the Yanks acquired Wetteland, Girardi and Duncan, but nobody could have predicted Duncan's sudden rise to fame, and immediate return to normalcy.

Buy Girardi and Key? Yeah, and the Pirates bought Dennys Reyes and Jeff D'Amico this year. Ohh rah.

There aren't any superstars on this team. Put them toe to toe with the 2002 Angels, and you'd probably find more great players on the Angels then you did on this Yankee team. This team won on clutch play and team work .. not on a couple of superstars trying to carry the entire team.

CommishJoe · 01-24-2003, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AngelinOF
Umm in 1996 the Yankees had the highest payroll, 6 million more than the Baltimore Orioles.
1997 they again had the highest payroll, 8.5 million more than Baltimore, and 20 million more than eventual WS winner Florida.
1998 they had the second highest payroll 850k behind Baltimore.
And in 1999 they once again had the higest payroll, 11 million more than the Texas Rangers.

Just curious where you got your figures from. I didn't see payroll listed on baseball-reference.

Thanks

jmaness84 · 01-24-2003, 11:40 PM

Now they didnt buy Contreras, Giambi, Zeile, Mussina, Wells, Clemens, Ventura, Soriano (Yes they did buy), White, Matsui, Karsay, Hammond, Vander Wal, Mondesi, Hitchcock, Weaver, etc.. (I Know some came from trades)See some teams like the Braves get their main pieces from their farm systems, where the yankees get their big pieces from FA. Braves Chipper, Andruw, Smoltz (Came from Detroit but spent most of his minor league career developing in the Braves system), Furcal, Giles, Glavine (Before he left), Castilla, Marquis, DeRosa, Javy, Milwood (Before he was traded), Byrd..etc al The braves get some good players via FA, and trades but most of their high salary players come from their minor league system. I can go even further back into the 90s.. Gant, Justice, Avery, Dye, Klesko, Jason Smhidt (however u spell it), Blauser, Lemke, Mercker, Odalis Perez, Stanton, Wholers, McMichael, Ligtenberg, Borbon.. Im just giving Braves examples because i know more about the braves than any other team. Right now the only yankees farm hands are Jeter, Pettite, Johnson, Bernie, Rivera, Posada, is all that come to mind as of now!

jmaness84 · 01-24-2003, 11:44 PM

Jimmy Key was a very good SP for the yankees

jmaness84 · 01-24-2003, 11:46 PM

Think if a team like Montreal had an additional 100mil what could they do with it?? They could buy an A-rod, Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling, Manny Ramirez, Derek Jeter, and still have about 15 mil left!!

01-22-2003, 03:03 PM	#1
Hammer755 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,348	Yankees sign another SP Yanks sign SP Jon Lieber to a two-year deal, even though he probably won't pitch in '03. Report: Yankees agree to terms with RHP Lieber

01-22-2003, 03:21 PM	#3
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	In the interest of full disclosure, Lieber will not pitch until the end of the season, if at all, due to injury. __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”

01-22-2003, 07:16 PM	#4
billycola Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: CA Posts: 171	How did he pass his physical??? __________________ Bill Heckel Jr. NARBL-NL President/Pittsburgh Pirates (1977-90) 1985 NARBL Champs 1979, '83-84, '90 Wild Card 1981-82, '85-87 AL East Champs CIBA Houston Astros (1970-71) 1970 CIBA Champs CDL-AL Prez/Boston Red Sox (1969-01) 1973, '84, '00 AL Pennant 1971, '73, '76, '84-89, '98-00 AL East Champs NAHHBL-NL Prez/Chicago Cubs (1980-99) 1995 NL Pennant 1994-98 NL Central Champs UBL Boston Red Sox (1934-36) 1934-35 FL East Champs 1935 FL Pennant WLB Bogota Guerrillas (2014-15)

01-23-2003, 01:36 PM	#5
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	I think him passing the physical was based on how he's progressed since the surgery. I guess they were making sure there is nothing else wrong with him. ----- BTW, this is a deal that I like. I think this makes sense. This is like an offseason signing for next year. With Pettitte, like gone after this year, Clemens, Hitchcock (i think), and Wells all gone next year this makes a whole lot of sense. That leaves Mussina, Contreras, Weaver, Lieber. Not as scary as the rotation in the past but there's an open spot to fill there. Last edited by CMH; 01-23-2003 at 01:40 PM.

01-23-2003, 02:41 PM	#6
crackpott Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,961	The Yankees are making sure their Columbus rotation is set, and will cost them more than some other major league teams. __________________ Abandoned Planet - Check it out. The photos don't suck anymore.

01-22-2003, 03:19 PM	#2
sixto Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,277	This reminds me of our fantasy league, where we realized that imposing $2 and $5 and even $25 penalties for making "unfair" deals were pointless because if somebody wants to win badly and stands a great chance to win $250 by spending $30, it doesn't matter what kind of penalty or luxury tax or what you impose. I've always been against revenue sharing, but maybe baseball should go to a revenue sharing plan. Cap every team's revenue at X, with X being a fair number. The overage goes into a World Series fund. The pennant winners split the overage 70-20. The other playoffs split the remaining 10%, the rest of the teams get nothing. Of course, some team owners would just pocket that money (Hi Pohlad), but theoretically it would be harder to get it in the first place. It's not an airtight plan but I think it's got potential.

01-24-2003, 03:45 AM	#10
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	Sixto: regarding your revenue sharing comment.... Bill James has an excellent article in his new Historical Abstract about the inequities in revenue and how to fix them. Essentially, he argues that revenue sharing is pointless, because you're just subsidizing idiots like Pohlad and whoever's pretending to run Selig's team for him. Instead, the TV money should be split more fairly, as is done in every other sport, so that small-market teams can compete if they're clever, and it's not just a welfare system where the wealthy pay the stupid.

01-24-2003, 07:31 PM	#11
jmaness84 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,685	I hate the Yankees. Any descent fantasy leaguer could put a World Series championship team on the field if they have 50% higher payroll than the next highest team!! Brian Cashman, Joe Torre, and George Steinbrener are all pathetic!!!

01-24-2003, 11:26 PM	#14
jmaness84 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,685	How come Torre didnt do so good with the Braves and Cardinals?? Might not have bought Pettite and O'Neil, but they did buy Hayes, Girardi, Strawberry, Duncan, Key (I Believe), Wetteland, Tino, etc..

01-24-2003, 11:31 PM	#15
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	Oh yeah, big time all-stars getting big time money here.. http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/1996.shtml Cecil Fielder's $9m and Ruben Sierra's $6m lead the team <sarcasm> and thank goodness they had them!! </sarcasm> 3 total all stars with Pettitte, Wetteland and Boggs. Yeah, this team was completely loaded rolleyes __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.

01-24-2003, 11:40 PM	#18
jmaness84 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,685	Now they didnt buy Contreras, Giambi, Zeile, Mussina, Wells, Clemens, Ventura, Soriano (Yes they did buy), White, Matsui, Karsay, Hammond, Vander Wal, Mondesi, Hitchcock, Weaver, etc.. (I Know some came from trades)See some teams like the Braves get their main pieces from their farm systems, where the yankees get their big pieces from FA. Braves Chipper, Andruw, Smoltz (Came from Detroit but spent most of his minor league career developing in the Braves system), Furcal, Giles, Glavine (Before he left), Castilla, Marquis, DeRosa, Javy, Milwood (Before he was traded), Byrd..etc al The braves get some good players via FA, and trades but most of their high salary players come from their minor league system. I can go even further back into the 90s.. Gant, Justice, Avery, Dye, Klesko, Jason Smhidt (however u spell it), Blauser, Lemke, Mercker, Odalis Perez, Stanton, Wholers, McMichael, Ligtenberg, Borbon.. Im just giving Braves examples because i know more about the braves than any other team. Right now the only yankees farm hands are Jeter, Pettite, Johnson, Bernie, Rivera, Posada, is all that come to mind as of now!

01-24-2003, 11:44 PM	#19
jmaness84 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,685	Jimmy Key was a very good SP for the yankees

01-24-2003, 11:46 PM	#20
jmaness84 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,685	Think if a team like Montreal had an additional 100mil what could they do with it?? They could buy an A-rod, Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling, Manny Ramirez, Derek Jeter, and still have about 15 mil left!!