Against the rules?

[origamirazor]

I was watching a movie called The Kid From Left Field yesterday. In it a manager wanted to change his pitcher in the 9th with one out, but didn't want to take him out of the game. So, he put in a reliever, took out the 3rd baseman and put the SP at 3rd. The reliever got the next batter out, at which time, the manager put the SP back on the mound, and inserted a new 3rd baseman.

I know it's a movie and therefore rules don't matter, but is this legal? And if yes, would you do it?

[Dwolfson20]

I know he's allowed to move to another position, but I don't think he can go back and pitch. Although I'm not positive, and if it's legal I would most definitely do it.

[Hammer755]

That is a legal move. As long as the pitcher isn't removed from the game, he can return to pitch as many times as the manager wants. This was done with Mitch Williams a few years ago. I think it was the Phillies who put him in LF for one batter and then he returned to the mound.

[LivnLegend]

Dodgers did it with Fernando Valenzuela at least once, putting him in RF for a batter.

[Delgadodawg]

Yep, I think the Mets did in a long while back-- I think it involved Orosco and Aguilera if I remember correctly.

[vtbub]

The infamous Pine Tar game I believe had Ron Guidry in Right Field when it was completed.

[drprestwood]

Wow...why isn't this done more often? Damn.

[blubbla]

The Mets did it in an extra inning game in '86. It was Jesse Orosco and Roger McDowell that Davey Johnson alternated between pitcher and the OF.

July 22, 1986 -- Lots of weird things happened in this game between the Mets and Reds. In the 10th inning, Eric Davis came on to pinch run for Pete Rose, who had singled. Davis then stole second and later third. When the Reds OF popped up from his slide at third, he shouldered Mets 3B Ray Knight, who took exception. The two exchanged words, and then Knight slugged Davis in the jaw, setting off a bench clearing brawl. Knight, Davis, and Mets RF Kevin Mitchell were ejected.

The Mets had to tinker with their lineup after this. Howard Johnson had replaced Rafael Santana at shortstop earlier in the game, so he was not an option to replace Knight. Neither, of course, was Mitchell. So the Mets sent Gary Carter out to 3rd for just the second time in his career. (He even turned a DP!)

Also, since Mitchell was tossed, the Mets needed a RF, as Mitchell had come in for Darryl Strawberry. Jesse Orosco had been pitching, and he now moved to RF as Roger McDowell came in. For the next 5 innings, Orosco faced all the lefties, McDowell took on all the righties, and the one not pitching alternated with Mookie Wilson between RF and LF, depending on the matchups.

Orosco did catch a fly ball, the 2 pitchers combined for 5 shutout innings, and Howard Johnson hit a 3 run homer to win it for New York in the bottom of the 14th.

--Taken from Baseball Dynasties, written by Rob Neyer and Eddie Epstein.

[GForce22]

Originally posted by Delgadodawg
Yep, I think the Mets did in a long while back-- I think it involved Orosco and Aguilera if I remember correctly.

Orosco and McDowell.

Ah, I see someone beat me to it.

GH

If only we could do this in OOTP ...

[Delgadodawg]

Originally posted by GForce22
Orosco and McDowell.

Ah, I see someone beat me to it.

GH

2 years from 30 and my memory is already fading

[GForce22]

THIS I remember...the wife asks me to pick up 5 things from the store, I'll ALWAYS forget something

GH

[fluharty]

An excerpt from Willie Stargell's Autobiography:

During the 1979 season in San Francisco, right hander Kent Tekulve was protecting a 5-3 lead in the 9th inning with one on and two out. Left handed power hitting Darrell Evans was scheduled to bat. Manager Chuck Tanner wanted lefty Grant Jackson to pitch to Evans, but he also wanted Teke available to face the on deck batter if necessary. Tanner sent Tekulve to left field in order to keep him in the game. Everyone hoped that Jackson would retire the batter and the double-switch strategy would work. Jackson kept the ball away from Evans, but the slugger went with the pitch and drove a fly ball to left field. Tekulve happened to be in perfect position. After waving his arms frantically to signal that he had it, Teke raised his glove and squeezed the ball for the final out of the game.

[jor31]

They did this in the Pepsi Charity Softball game in 1999!

Lefty Randy Johnson , and Righty Greg Maddux i beleive rotated between 1B and the pitchers mound.

Not that it mattered, charity softball and all........

[CBL-Commish]

Originally posted by drprestwood
Wow...why isn't this done more often? Damn.

First off, there's a rule that you can only move the pitcher to another position and back to the mound once. You can't do it repeatedly.

Bill James wrote about this somewhere, sometime... might have been in the manager's book, I don't remember.

Basically it came down to this: You get the platoon advantage for one hitter, but you also have a guy playing way out of position for that one hitter. The platoon advantage is usually on the order of .025 points of batting average. But the difference between having a regular right fielder or a pitcher out there might be .100 points of fielding percentage and a ton of range. In the late innings of a close game (when you'd probably try this) do you really want someone far worse than, say, Pete Incaviglia playing in the outfield? Plus, you just subbed out your regular right fielder, so you have to put in a lesser player after all these shennanigans, hurting your offense if that spot comes up again.

A lot of work for little or no gain.

[drprestwood]

Right, but if blubblas example is correct you can do it repeatedly. Now I'm confused.

[CBL-Commish]

I looked and I can't find the rule anywhere... I swear that James article said you can only do this once per pitcher. I'll go home tonight and look it up.

[blubbla]

that rule may be right:

A different recap of the same game from baseball library.com, which states it differently than Neyer:

The Mets win a crazy five-hour marathon with the Reds in 14 innings, winning 6–3 (as recalled by Bill Deane). Setting the tone, Darryl Strawberry is ejected after arguing a called 3rd strike in the 5th. In the 9th, Howard Johnson inadvertently kicks the ball after Reds C Bo Diaz drops a third strike. Johnson runs out of the baseline and is hit in the back with the throw from pitcher Ron Robinson. Reds coach Billy DeMars is ejected for arguing the safe call. The Mets, down 3–1, with two out, tie the game when Dave Parker who drops a routine fly ball. In the 10th, Davey Johnson sends in pitcher Rick Aguilera to hit for pitcher Doug Sisk. Aguilera walks, but is stranded. In the Reds 10th, pinch-runner Eric Davis steals 2B and 3B, bumping into Ray Knight. Knight decks Davis and both benches empty. Knight, Davis, Kevin Mitchell and Mario Soto are ejected. Gary Carter moves to 3B, McDowell comes in to pitch, and Orosco moves from the mound to RF. With two out and a runner on 2B in the 11th, Orosco returns to pitch, McDowell moves to LF, and Mookie Wilson shifts to right. Rose protests when Orosco is permitted eight warm-up pitches. Orosco whiffs Max Venable to end the inning. In the 12th, The Mets are forced to lead off the inning with Orosco and McDowell, and go down in order. McDowell returns to pitch in the 13th and gets Tony Perez to fly to Orosco in right. Howard Johnson belts a three-run homer in the 14th and McDowell retires the side in order.


--this account makes the game seem that much screwier!

[blubbla]

Found the rule in question (from MLB.com) part pertaining to this in bold:

3.03
A player, or players, may be substituted during a game at any time the ball is dead. A substitute player shall bat in the replaced player's position in the team's batting order. A player once removed from a game shall not re enter that game. If a substitute enters the game in place of a player manager, the manager may thereafter go to the coaching lines at his discretion. When two or more substitute players of the defensive team enter the game at the same time, the manager shall, immediately before they take their positions as fielders, designate to the umpire in chief such players' positions in the team's batting order and the umpire in chief shall so notify the official scorer. If this information is not immediately given to the umpire in chief, he shall have authority to designate the substitutes' places in the batting order. A pitcher may change to another position only once during the same inning; e.g. the pitcher will not be allowed to assume a position other than a pitcher more than once in the same inning. Any player other than a pitcher substituted for an injured player shall be allowed five warm up throws. (See Rule 8.03 for pitchers.)

[Jamey]

how would a boxscore look for a situation like that? would they list the same pitcher twice?