Forcing the AI to Carry 7 Relievers

[Qwerty75]

My fictional solo league is a continuation of a game started in OOTP2007, and was created with the default settings for modern-day leagues. Under these settings the AI routinely carries 6 relievers; I don't think I've ever seen an AI-run team have 7. With only 6 pitchers in the bullpen, I often see the entire bullpen tired, so I would like to make the AI carry an additional reliever on its rosters at the expense of a backup positional player, which it can afford to do because the DH is active in both leagues and less need for bench players.

Does anyone know how to make the AI do this? Maybe change one of the settings under "Strategy" in the League Setup? Here are some current key settings:

Use of Relievers: Very Often
Use of Closers: Very Often
Pitcher Stamina: Low
Typical Starting Rotation Size: 5 Man Rotation

I would think the key one here is Use of Relievers, but it's already at the highest setting. The only thing I can think of changing that might make a difference is setting Pitcher Stamina to Very Low. Would this have any effect on AI roster management? What side effects would it have? I figure the average pitches thrown by the average starter would decrease, but hope someone has tried this setting and could give me a heads up.

I'm still on v11, but this forum gets more traffic, so I thought I'd throw it out in here; I wouldn't think this part of the game has changed. Apologies if I'm cluttering.

[Qwerty75]

Anyone? Am I stuck with 6 relievers for every bullpen except my own?

[Left-handed Badger]

Most AI teams I've encountered, usually have 1 of the 6 getting like 2-3 IP per month. So, it would seem a bit of roster space waste to have a 7 man bullpen for them.

I'm not savvy enough to figure this one out for you, sorry.

[snepp]

Try lowering the "Reliever Stamina" setting under the league setup. I don't know if AI takes this into account when determining rosters though.

OOTP Baseball Manual - Strategy & Equivalencies Page

Or you could try setting the "Pitcher Stamina" to Very Low (maybe forcing an extra reliever), then increase the "Starting Pitcher Stamina" modifier to bump the starters back up a bit.

[Qwerty75]

Originally Posted by Left-handed Badger

Most AI teams I've encountered, usually have 1 of the 6 getting like 2-3 IP per month. So, it would seem a bit of roster space waste to have a 7 man bullpen for them.

I'm not savvy enough to figure this one out for you, sorry.

I'm learning that the AI brings relievers into a game even when Slightly Tired (yellow rest status) instead of restricting itself to using those that are Rested (green). It appears that only relievers that are Tired or Exhausted (orange or red) are unavailable. So it looks like a good number of innings pitched by relievers are when they are brought into the game under yellow/Slightly Tired status.

Wouldn't you think appearances when entering the game Slightly Tired/yellow will turn out, in the aggregate, worse than those when Rested/green? Or does yellow status simply reduce the number of pitches until the reliever becomes tired/exhausted for the given appearance, so that there is no performance penalty if his pitch count is kept low?

If the latter is true, then the number of innings pitched by the bullpen under a performance penalty for tiredness is not as big a problem, and carrying 6 relievers in the bullpen may not be much worse than carrying 7. If every pitcher that has yellow/Slightly Tired rest status is penalized immediately upon entering the game, then I think carrying an extra reliever would help bullpens be more effective on the whole. Am I overestimating the impact of tiredness on reliever performance? Am I the only one who carries 7 relievers in the bullpen?

Edit: One more point -- it's commonplace currently in MLB for teams to carry 7 relievers in the bullpen. My guess is that there are more teams at any given time that carry 7 than 6. So why is the AI designed to carry only 6 relievers and never 7?

[Qwerty75]

Ok, checked on a real MLB rosters league and the *** league I have set up in my fictional game, and it appears that the AI carries 7 relievers in leagues w/o the DH but only 6 in those using the DH.

Before I go investigating on my own, I'll ask all you baseball fans out there: does this split seem to reflect real life well? I'm an A's fan and follow the AL almost exclusively; the A's always carry 7 relievers and I've gotten used to the assumption that most teams do the same. Is the way the AI currently handles this unrealistic?

[BusterKing]

Good thread.

I always thought that we should have an option to have our leagues have 6 or 7 relievers (regardless if they are DH or not) or better yet, each AI teams be random regarding this option.

I play with the Jays and I feel like I'm cheating if I use 7 relievers since the AI doesn't.

[snepp]

Ideally the AI bullpen composition would be based upon a combination of player qualities, manager tendencies, and the overall league strategy settings.

[Left-handed Badger]

Originally Posted by Qwerty75

I'm learning that the AI brings relievers into a game even when Slightly Tired (yellow rest status) instead of restricting itself to using those that are Rested (green). It appears that only relievers that are Tired or Exhausted (orange or red) are unavailable. So it looks like a good number of innings pitched by relievers are when they are brought into the game under yellow/Slightly Tired status.

Wouldn't you think appearances when entering the game Slightly Tired/yellow will turn out, in the aggregate, worse than those when Rested/green? Or does yellow status simply reduce the number of pitches until the reliever becomes tired/exhausted for the given appearance, so that there is no performance penalty if his pitch count is kept low?

If the latter is true, then the number of innings pitched by the bullpen under a performance penalty for tiredness is not as big a problem, and carrying 6 relievers in the bullpen may not be much worse than carrying 7. If every pitcher that has yellow/Slightly Tired rest status is penalized immediately upon entering the game, then I think carrying an extra reliever would help bullpens be more effective on the whole. Am I overestimating the impact of tiredness on reliever performance? Am I the only one who carries 7 relievers in the bullpen?

Edit: One more point -- it's commonplace currently in MLB for teams to carry 7 relievers in the bullpen. My guess is that there are more teams at any given time that carry 7 than 6. So why is the AI designed to carry only 6 relievers and never 7?

Well, in real life I am not a fan of the 7-man bullpen or the LaRussa bullpen (8 man)*. But, I do see tired relievers sometimes in OOTP, myself. Still, there is that 6th pitcher in the bullpen never getting used. (usually an AI team's set up guy). I suppose it would help slightly. But, there will still be that (usually) set up guy burning a roster spot on 2-3 appearances a month.

*Note: I can see the current trend of humongous bullpens but if it continues I think the league will need to adopt a 26 man roster. That or make the NL a DH league (so they want burn an entire 4 man bench PH every game).

2nd Note: Actually, I'd be curious to know how many times an NL team per game uses a PH or double switch for the pitcher.

[Left-handed Badger]

Originally Posted by Qwerty75

Ok, checked on a real MLB rosters league and the *** league I have set up in my fictional game, and it appears that the AI carries 7 relievers in leagues w/o the DH but only 6 in those using the DH.

Before I go investigating on my own, I'll ask all you baseball fans out there: does this split seem to reflect real life well? I'm an A's fan and follow the AL almost exclusively; the A's always carry 7 relievers and I've gotten used to the assumption that most teams do the same. Is the way the AI currently handles this unrealistic?

It would make more sense the other way to me. While you need 9 starters instead of 8 with a DH. Unless you are using an average of 1 or less PHs and/or double switches a game for the pitcher spot. A bench spot would be a more precious commodity for NL. And in today's game of 5 inning starters I am sure you burn (at least) 2 bench spots per game avoiding the pitcher hitting in the late innings. But, in real life it seems most teams use 12 pitchers (13, if St. Louis.)

[Qwerty75]

Originally Posted by Left-handed Badger

Well, in real life I am not a fan of the 7-man bullpen or the LaRussa bullpen (8 man)*. But, I do see tired relievers sometimes in OOTP, myself. Still, there is that 6th pitcher in the bullpen never getting used. (usually an AI team's set up guy). I suppose it would help slightly. But, there will still be that (usually) set up guy burning a roster spot on 2-3 appearances a month.

*Note: I can see the current trend of humongous bullpens but if it continues I think the league will need to adopt a 26 man roster. That or make the NL a DH league (so they want burn an entire 4 man bench PH every game).

2nd Note: Actually, I'd be curious to know how many times an NL team per game uses a PH or double switch for the pitcher.

Yeah, your observation that only 5 relievers get used regularly makes me wonder if being tired affects pitcher performance as much as I originally thought. If it actually does have a decent amount of impact, the logic of deciding which relievers to bring into the game should be modified and the number of relievers carried by teams should be more dynamic.

For those who manage the bullpen in-game like I do, how often do you use a reliever that's not Rested/green in rest status (yellow, orange, or red)? In these cases, do you see the reliever perform worse than normally, or is a performance penalty for being tired not that noticeable? I manage my bullpen so that I can count on fully rested (100%) relievers to bring in the game; on rare occasions I'll use a guy who's green at around 85-7% rested, and it's been a long time since I've had an emergency which required using a reliever who was yellow or lower in status. As such, I don't see my own relievers struggle when tired, although it does seem the bullpen's relievers struggle when they are already tired when entering the game.

[Scottiedog]

I personally would argue a 7th man in the pen is pointless. Most teams carry only 11 pitchers total (5 SP’s/6 in pen) until the roster expands to 40 men.

However, with that stated. If you would like teams to go to a 12 man staff, I would suggest the following.

On the “League Strategy, AI, and Modifier Settings”

Use of Relievers: Very Often
Use of Closers: Very Often
Pitcher Stamina: Low (maybe Very Low if needed)
Starting Rotation Mode: Start Highest-Rested
Pinch Hit for Pitchers: Very Often

Starting Pitching Strategy: Experiment Lower by intervals of .05-.10
Relief Pitcher Strategy: Experiment Lower by intervals of .05-.10

Utilize the “Mop-Up Reliever” role

[Left-handed Badger]

Originally Posted by Qwerty75

Yeah, your observation that only 5 relievers get used regularly makes me wonder if being tired affects pitcher performance as much as I originally thought. If it actually does have a decent amount of impact, the logic of deciding which relievers to bring into the game should be modified and the number of relievers carried by teams should be more dynamic.

For those who manage the bullpen in-game like I do, how often do you use a reliever that's not Rested/green in rest status (yellow, orange, or red)? In these cases, do you see the reliever perform worse than normally, or is a performance penalty for being tired not that noticeable? I manage my bullpen so that I can count on fully rested (100%) relievers to bring in the game; on rare occasions I'll use a guy who's green at around 85-7% rested, and it's been a long time since I've had an emergency which required using a reliever who was yellow or lower in status. As such, I don't see my own relievers struggle when tired, although it does seem the bullpen's relievers struggle when they are already tired when entering the game.

Well, I do prefer to play in-game. And yes, I rarely put in tired relievers myself. I rarely ever use a reliever 3 day in a row (and if so, it is because of something like extra inning nightmare marathons).

Generally, I go by my pre-conceived notions of using a bullpen, which was mostly formed from watching baseball in the 1980s/90s, to a large degree. I kind of go by feel, I guess. But, it does go more in line with how it would work in real life. Though, I do have some other notions that are my preference. Such as, my best reliever isnt necessarily just 9th inning save guy. He may pitch the 8th too. Or I may use in an earlier inning vs. the meat of the opposition lineup. So, I sometimes go bullpen by committee to varying degrees. I also like having a kind of "6th starter". A guy who i tend to use a lot when the starter gets bombed for 3-4 innings to bridge it to the end of the bullpen. While it inevitably wont be his only kind of appearance as I might use him if necessary in other ways, it is kind of guideline. Such a guy if rested is perfect with extra inning game as you can use him to save the rest of the pen.


Just to give an idea of how I use my pen.

For the AI, one problem I see a lot with the AI is it doesnt use situational guys. No lefty for one out. That lefty will pitch 2 or 3 innings or get bombed out of the game, one or the other. (which I think explains why the AI doesnt need too many relievers.)