Any downside to using ghost players?

VarlosZ · 05-02-2011, 09:53 AM

Assuming you don't have role-playing concerns and you don't particularly care about the W-L record of your minor league teams, is there any real downside to using ghost players? Presumably it will tend to hurt the performance of your minor league organization -- would that hamper player development in any way (e.g., by hurting player morale)? Thanks.

Bluenoser · 05-02-2011, 10:09 AM

Ghost players do not harm your organization in any way, not performance wise or other.

Ghost players simply allow you to have incomplete rosters in the minors. They do not affect development, playing time, etc.

benallen002 · 05-02-2011, 12:04 PM

While bluenoser is correct in what he said, I think that there is a downside because you eliminate (theoretically) the "diamond in the rough" player. Meaning, if all you keep are prospects with potential of over, say, 30, then you are eliminating the chance that some guy that was a scrub in A-ball could have the light turn on and jump from a 20 to a 50 potential (20-80 scale). It happens enough in my minor leagues that to me it is worth the hassle of maintaining full minors. It is just my preference, but I thought you might like to know in case you hadn't considered that aspect of using ghost players.

Bluenoser · 05-02-2011, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benallen002

While bluenoser is correct in what he said, I think that there is a downside because you eliminate (theoretically) the "diamond in the rough" player. Meaning, if all you keep are prospects with potential of over, say, 30, then you are eliminating the chance that some guy that was a scrub in A-ball could have the light turn on and jump from a 20 to a 50 potential (20-80 scale). It happens enough in my minor leagues that to me it is worth the hassle of maintaining full minors. It is just my preference, but I thought you might like to know in case you hadn't considered that aspect of using ghost players.

You don't "eliminate" anything - ghost players only get used if you don't have anyone to fill a spot in the line-up. The "scrub" will get playing time if he's the only available player for that spot. Ghost players will never be used in place of a player if one is available.

eg: If you have no 3B in A Ball and only a scrub 2B, then a ghost player would fill the 3B spot in the line-up while the scrub would be inserted at 2B.

The only way you're eliminating the "diamond in the rough" is if you do as you've stated, keep only good potential prospects. That has nothing to do with ghost players, it's a GM decision/action.

Chicagofan76 · 05-02-2011, 02:02 PM

Blue turned me onto Ghost players in my most recent season of my EBL league since once teams did call ups some teams didnt have enough players to field a full roster. They come in handy since in that league all I have is a AAA since its a fictional historical league.

Marberi · 05-02-2011, 02:14 PM

When I was just getting into OOTP, I simmed a complete MLB season (including full minors) and had tons of problems with injuries down at the farm, because I didn't have any ghost players and some of my affiliates didn't have backups at certain positions. Starters would be forced into playing their positions every day, got injured often and their development was obviously affected.

So, in addition to the great points made by bluenoser, I'd only like to say that ghost players not only don't interfere with minor leaguers performance/development in the very least, but actually help keep them healthy, fresh and productive. Definitely a much better option, IMO.

benallen002 · 05-02-2011, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

You don't "eliminate" anything - ghost players only get used if you don't have anyone to fill a spot in the line-up. The "scrub" will get playing time if he's the only available player for that spot. Ghost players will never be used in place of a player if one is available.

eg: If you have no 3B in A Ball and only a scrub 2B, then a ghost player would fill the 3B spot in the line-up while the scrub would be inserted at 2B.

The only way you're eliminating the "diamond in the rough" is if you do as you've stated, keep only good potential prospects. That has nothing to do with ghost players, it's a GM decision/action.

I was making the assumption that the main reason you would use ghost players would be exactly that: so that you only had to keep good potential prospects.

I will admit, I hadn't given much thought to turning on ghost players but still keeping a bunch of scrubs at every level.

When you turn on ghost players, does the AI still fill rosters or does it not even bother?

Carplos · 05-02-2011, 03:01 PM

It will still fill the rosters if they have the players in the org. For example, if you were take the default MLB and turn on ghost players, other than the low minors possibly if a team doesn't sign enough of its draftees, rosters will still be full. On the other hand, if you preferred to back to old-school OOTP and set the draft to 5 rounds, eventually they'd empty.

benallen002 · 05-02-2011, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carplos

It will still fill the rosters if they have the players in the org. For example, if you were take the default MLB and turn on ghost players, other than the low minors possibly if a team doesn't sign enough of its draftees, rosters will still be full. On the other hand, if you preferred to back to old-school OOTP and set the draft to 5 rounds, eventually they'd empty.

Good to know. I was worried I would have an advantage if I turned on Ghosts but kept my team full but the AI didn't do the same. So basically you get the advantages of finding possible "diamonds" while not having to hire a replacement every time someone goes down with an injury. The best of both worlds.

I might have to give this a go then, thanks.

tejdog1 · 05-02-2011, 07:09 PM

I usually have my 9 starters (counting DH), and then fill in every position in the depth chart. So 2 Cs, 2 IFs, 2 OFs, at a minimum of 15 players. I usually end up with 17-18, but make sure my top top prospects get the most playing time. So I end up with something like this:

toxicavenger74 · 05-02-2011, 07:59 PM

I've played around 20 solo league years, playing out all the games. I've only had one problem once. Just recently in V 11, the ghost player Joe Unknowns that were created were not deleted and I could not sim past my current date. Additionally, it messed up all my rosters and my league was pretty much corrupt.

With that being said, it was a file that could have been corrupted in another way and the Joe Unknown ghost player non deletion was just a by product of that. Regardless, I went to my back up and I am still playing the league.....with ghost players.

Cooleyvol · 05-02-2011, 08:50 PM

Ghost players shouldn't alter the way you manager your minors in any way. They are merely there in case you don't have a player for a certain position at that level.

Cooleyvol · 05-02-2011, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxicavenger74

I've played around 20 solo league years, playing out all the games. I've only had one problem once. Just recently in V 11, the ghost player Joe Unknowns that were created were not deleted and I could not sim past my current date. Additionally, it messed up all my rosters and my league was pretty much corrupt.

With that being said, it was a file that could have been corrupted in another way and the Joe Unknown ghost player non deletion was just a by product of that. Regardless, I went to my back up and I am still playing the league.....with ghost players.

Ghost players arent visible whatsoever. Your 'Joe Unknowns' are not ghost players.

SteveP · 05-02-2011, 11:32 PM

The only significant consequence to using ghost players, AFAIK, is that minor league players on the free agency list will likely stay there longer, because the AI has no reason to hire them.

Joe Unknown is a ghost player. There are a variety of reasons (all the result of damage/bugs/corrupt files) why they might show up in rosters at some point. I'd delete them if you can.

benallen002 · 05-03-2011, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

Ghost players shouldn't alter the way you manager your minors in any way. They are merely there in case you don't have a player for a certain position at that level.

Why shouldn't they? They already have. Before, if I had enough players on my AA team go down to injury, I had to hire replacements or the whole team would eventually get hurt due to fatigue. Now I don't have to do that. Ghost players have altered the way I manage my minor league teams. Did I do something wrong?

toxicavenger74 · 05-03-2011, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

Ghost players arent visible whatsoever. Your 'Joe Unknowns' are not ghost players.

Not true. Joe Unknowns are created to be the ghost players and then are deleted and their stats not counted. If all works well they should never be seen. In my file they did not get deleted and were visible, this may have occurred because of a direct issue with the Joe Unknowns but my suspicion is that it was another error or corruption in the file which then prevented the deletion of the Joe Unknowns. I still have the file if anyone wants to see it for bug analysis purposes.

Regardless, it was one issue after thousands of games and hours played and most likely was a local issue and not a game issue but it was an issue. So my only advice is to back up on a regular basis.

Cooleyvol · 05-04-2011, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxicavenger74

Not true. Joe Unknowns are created to be the ghost players and then are deleted and their stats not counted. If all works well they should never be seen. In my file they did not get deleted and were visible, this may have occurred because of a direct issue with the Joe Unknowns but my suspicion is that it was another error or corruption in the file which then prevented the deletion of the Joe Unknowns. I still have the file if anyone wants to see it for bug analysis purposes.

Regardless, it was one issue after thousands of games and hours played and most likely was a local issue and not a game issue but it was an issue. So my only advice is to back up on a regular basis.

Well, then, let's say that I've never seen a Joe Unknown.

Doctor Robert · 05-04-2011, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

Well, then, let's say that I've never seen a Joe Unknown.

They're in the minor league box scores and game logs.

You never see them on the rosters because they are created immediately before each game, and deleted immediately after.

Why don't you turn on ghost players, put zero players on a minor league team, and turn on the saving of box scores in the minor leagues? Or just manage a game with the zero-player team.

Your mind will be blown.

maxxavier · 07-25-2011, 09:18 PM

I know, that most of you use ghost players in fictional leagues but, either way... where's the "realism" of the game of baseball in ghosts? Field of Dreams, maybe... or that Rockies affiliate in Wyoming... Other than that, FILL yer Darn Rosters! If you don't want to manage them, let the AI do it for you...

Chicagofan76 · 07-25-2011, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxavier

I know, that most of you use ghost players in fictional leagues but, either way... where's the "realism" of the game of baseball in ghosts? Field of Dreams, maybe... or that Rockies affiliate in Wyoming... Other than that, FILL yer Darn Rosters! If you don't want to manage them, let the AI do it for you...

I have a historical 1999 League that will morph into my various super leagues. I use ghost players for my 2 main ML and their minor leagues since they are both historical leagues. My 99 MLB has full minors. my 2003 EBL will have 4 levels which wont be completely full until I get past my historical players in 2036, especially since i have expansion 5 times in 11 seasons.
For my other 2 fictional league i dont use ghost players since I have too many fictional players as it is.

05-02-2011, 09:53 AM	#1
VarlosZ Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 35	Any downside to using ghost players? Assuming you don't have role-playing concerns and you don't particularly care about the W-L record of your minor league teams, is there any real downside to using ghost players? Presumably it will tend to hurt the performance of your minor league organization -- would that hamper player development in any way (e.g., by hurting player morale)? Thanks.

05-02-2011, 07:09 PM	#10
tejdog1 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Danbury, CT Posts: 1,647	I usually have my 9 starters (counting DH), and then fill in every position in the depth chart. So 2 Cs, 2 IFs, 2 OFs, at a minimum of 15 players. I usually end up with 17-18, but make sure my top top prospects get the most playing time. So I end up with something like this: __________________ It's amazing How you make your face just like a wall How you take your heart and turn it off How I turn my head and lose it all And it's unnerving How just one move puts me by myself There you go just trusting someone else Now I know I put us both through hell ~Matchbox 20, "Leave" Everyone knows it's spelled "TRAID", not trade

07-25-2011, 09:18 PM	#19
maxxavier Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 262	I know, that most of you use ghost players in fictional leagues but, either way... where's the "realism" of the game of baseball in ghosts? Field of Dreams, maybe... or that Rockies affiliate in Wyoming... Other than that, FILL yer Darn Rosters! If you don't want to manage them, let the AI do it for you... __________________ MLSB (RIP)- Tampa Bay Silverbacks (RIP) NABL - New York Yankees GM TRBL - Commish RTBL (RIP) - Arizona Diamondbacks SIMBL - Oregon Pioneers "Success is more a function of consistent common sense than it is of genius." - An Wang "Have you tried turning it off and on again?" - Roy WEST HAM UNITED FAN!

05-02-2011, 10:09 AM	#2
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,209	Ghost players do not harm your organization in any way, not performance wise or other. Ghost players simply allow you to have incomplete rosters in the minors. They do not affect development, playing time, etc.

05-02-2011, 12:04 PM	#3
benallen002 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 192	While bluenoser is correct in what he said, I think that there is a downside because you eliminate (theoretically) the "diamond in the rough" player. Meaning, if all you keep are prospects with potential of over, say, 30, then you are eliminating the chance that some guy that was a scrub in A-ball could have the light turn on and jump from a 20 to a 50 potential (20-80 scale). It happens enough in my minor leagues that to me it is worth the hassle of maintaining full minors. It is just my preference, but I thought you might like to know in case you hadn't considered that aspect of using ghost players.

05-02-2011, 02:02 PM	#5
Chicagofan76 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Diamond, IL Posts: 6,339 Infractions: 2/2 (3)	Blue turned me onto Ghost players in my most recent season of my EBL league since once teams did call ups some teams didnt have enough players to field a full roster. They come in handy since in that league all I have is a AAA since its a fictional historical league.

05-02-2011, 02:14 PM	#6
Marberi All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Puebla, Mexico Posts: 562	When I was just getting into OOTP, I simmed a complete MLB season (including full minors) and had tons of problems with injuries down at the farm, because I didn't have any ghost players and some of my affiliates didn't have backups at certain positions. Starters would be forced into playing their positions every day, got injured often and their development was obviously affected. So, in addition to the great points made by bluenoser, I'd only like to say that ghost players not only don't interfere with minor leaguers performance/development in the very least, but actually help keep them healthy, fresh and productive. Definitely a much better option, IMO.

05-02-2011, 03:01 PM	#8
Carplos Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,847 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	It will still fill the rosters if they have the players in the org. For example, if you were take the default MLB and turn on ghost players, other than the low minors possibly if a team doesn't sign enough of its draftees, rosters will still be full. On the other hand, if you preferred to back to old-school OOTP and set the draft to 5 rounds, eventually they'd empty.

05-02-2011, 07:59 PM	#11
toxicavenger74 All Star Reserve Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 553	I've played around 20 solo league years, playing out all the games. I've only had one problem once. Just recently in V 11, the ghost player Joe Unknowns that were created were not deleted and I could not sim past my current date. Additionally, it messed up all my rosters and my league was pretty much corrupt. With that being said, it was a file that could have been corrupted in another way and the Joe Unknown ghost player non deletion was just a by product of that. Regardless, I went to my back up and I am still playing the league.....with ghost players.

05-02-2011, 08:50 PM	#12
Cooleyvol Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Union City, TN Posts: 6,383	Ghost players shouldn't alter the way you manager your minors in any way. They are merely there in case you don't have a player for a certain position at that level.

05-02-2011, 11:32 PM	#14
SteveP Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,109	The only significant consequence to using ghost players, AFAIK, is that minor league players on the free agency list will likely stay there longer, because the AI has no reason to hire them. Joe Unknown is a ghost player. There are a variety of reasons (all the result of damage/bugs/corrupt files) why they might show up in rosters at some point. I'd delete them if you can.