pinch hitter performance (with some relief pitcher info too)

mpbarnet · 02-28-2011, 10:30 PM

Anyone out there notice that nearly regardless of the quality of hitter or situation, your pinch hitters are nearly doomed to failure, and worse off than just letting your pitcher hit?

Its usual in the games I run. Right now I'm 90 games into being the 2011 Pirates (glutton for punishment mode). The following is typical for every year I've done:

Matt Diaz, Garrett Jones, Lyle Overbay, Andrew McCutchen, Pedro Alvarez and Mark DeRosa are a COMBINED 7 for 71!!! (60 of those ABs coming to Diaz, Jones, and Overbay)
6 singles
1 double
0 triples
0 homers
7 rbi
2 runs scored
7 walks (3 intentionally)
32 strikeouts

That works out to .098 / .191 / .112

I know that Diaz, Jones, Overbay et al are 2nd tier players, but NOT LIKE THIS! Keep in mind, most of these at bats come in high leverage situations with men on base where I'm trying to drive in runs.

I find the same for relief pitching. I wish I had stats to back up what happens to the first batter that is faced when a pitcher is changed mid inning. Over half the time it is a walk, usually of the 4 pitch variety (and yes, the arm is warmed up).

Anyone else notice this trend?

evanbarth · 04-12-2011, 08:57 AM

I've noticed that too -- I had it in version 10 -- when it converted over to 11, I think it got a little bit better but not much. Some guys I have are pinch hitting at like a .400 rate but most of the guys are 1 for 19, 0 for 13, etc.

I thought guys who expected to be on the bench would fare better -- but it hasn't turned out that way.

Anyone else know anything to do to fix this issue.
Thanks

JohnHoward · 04-12-2011, 12:35 PM

This has not been my experience with 11, 10, or earlier versions. Plenty of players have success as PH in my game. The great pinch-hitters are out there you just have to go find them. I am in 2013 now with the Braves, and Cody Johnson is 17-for-52 as a PH but only 4-for-41 as the starting LF. Other guys who have developed into top PH in my game:
Billy Nowlin
Billy Rowell
Yonder Alonso
Andres Torres
Kentrail Davis
I hate to see any of these guys come up and they always kill me in the late innings. They don't have the best ratings but for whatever reason they are always at the top of the PH stats and they always get bg hits against me.

CBL-Commish · 04-13-2011, 10:38 AM

I think we've discussed this in the past. I don't recall if there was a solution or not... have to do a search.

One thing to consider is that pinch hitters don't perform anything like an average hitter. Not .300 OPS bad, but much worse than the same players hitting in a normal situation. For example, in 2010 major league pinch hitters hit .219/.295/.343, good for a Cesar Izturis-like .638 OPS. If you assume an average pinch hitter is an average overall hitter, he'll lose nearly 100 points of OPS while pinch hitting.

CBL-Commish · 04-13-2011, 10:51 AM

Dola, here are a few relevant threads from previous versions:

Do pinch hitters K a lot?

BZ 3330

I'm not sure if this one was ever completely run to ground. It looks like there was a problem with a specific MLB roster set, but other folks had isolated issues with fictional leagues, too.

It does sound like the original poster was using a MLB roster set. Was it imported from a prior version of OOTP?

Biggio509 · 04-13-2011, 01:33 PM

As CBL said it is a lot harder to come to be a pinch hitter than an everyday guy. You don't see game quality pitching everyday.

The other issue you may look at is rest/rust. I am not sure exactly how it works in 11 but guys that do not play a lot may be rusty and have their ability diminished. Getting these guys a few more starts might help. If you just use them when starter is tired you may not be getting enough playing time to keep these guys sharp.

evanbarth · 04-13-2011, 02:32 PM

Anything to tweak to increase pinch hitter performance? Is it a bug in certain roster files?

02-28-2011, 10:30 PM	#1
mpbarnet Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 93	pinch hitter performance (with some relief pitcher info too) Anyone out there notice that nearly regardless of the quality of hitter or situation, your pinch hitters are nearly doomed to failure, and worse off than just letting your pitcher hit? Its usual in the games I run. Right now I'm 90 games into being the 2011 Pirates (glutton for punishment mode). The following is typical for every year I've done: Matt Diaz, Garrett Jones, Lyle Overbay, Andrew McCutchen, Pedro Alvarez and Mark DeRosa are a COMBINED 7 for 71!!! (60 of those ABs coming to Diaz, Jones, and Overbay) 6 singles 1 double 0 triples 0 homers 7 rbi 2 runs scored 7 walks (3 intentionally) 32 strikeouts That works out to .098 / .191 / .112 I know that Diaz, Jones, Overbay et al are 2nd tier players, but NOT LIKE THIS! Keep in mind, most of these at bats come in high leverage situations with men on base where I'm trying to drive in runs. I find the same for relief pitching. I wish I had stats to back up what happens to the first batter that is faced when a pitcher is changed mid inning. Over half the time it is a walk, usually of the 4 pitch variety (and yes, the arm is warmed up). Anyone else notice this trend?

04-12-2011, 12:35 PM	#3
JohnHoward All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 624	Keep looking This has not been my experience with 11, 10, or earlier versions. Plenty of players have success as PH in my game. The great pinch-hitters are out there you just have to go find them. I am in 2013 now with the Braves, and Cody Johnson is 17-for-52 as a PH but only 4-for-41 as the starting LF. Other guys who have developed into top PH in my game: Billy Nowlin Billy Rowell Yonder Alonso Andres Torres Kentrail Davis I hate to see any of these guys come up and they always kill me in the late innings. They don't have the best ratings but for whatever reason they are always at the top of the PH stats and they always get bg hits against me.

04-13-2011, 10:38 AM	#4
CBL-Commish All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,999	I think we've discussed this in the past. I don't recall if there was a solution or not... have to do a search. One thing to consider is that pinch hitters don't perform anything like an average hitter. Not .300 OPS bad, but much worse than the same players hitting in a normal situation. For example, in 2010 major league pinch hitters hit .219/.295/.343, good for a Cesar Izturis-like .638 OPS. If you assume an average pinch hitter is an average overall hitter, he'll lose nearly 100 points of OPS while pinch hitting. __________________ For the best in O's news: Orioles' Hangout.com

04-13-2011, 10:51 AM	#5
CBL-Commish All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,999	Dola, here are a few relevant threads from previous versions: Do pinch hitters K a lot? BZ 3330 I'm not sure if this one was ever completely run to ground. It looks like there was a problem with a specific MLB roster set, but other folks had isolated issues with fictional leagues, too. It does sound like the original poster was using a MLB roster set. Was it imported from a prior version of OOTP? __________________ For the best in O's news: Orioles' Hangout.com

04-12-2011, 08:57 AM	#2
evanbarth Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 328	I've noticed that too -- I had it in version 10 -- when it converted over to 11, I think it got a little bit better but not much. Some guys I have are pinch hitting at like a .400 rate but most of the guys are 1 for 19, 0 for 13, etc. I thought guys who expected to be on the bench would fare better -- but it hasn't turned out that way. Anyone else know anything to do to fix this issue. Thanks

04-13-2011, 01:33 PM	#6
Biggio509 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,027	As CBL said it is a lot harder to come to be a pinch hitter than an everyday guy. You don't see game quality pitching everyday. The other issue you may look at is rest/rust. I am not sure exactly how it works in 11 but guys that do not play a lot may be rusty and have their ability diminished. Getting these guys a few more starts might help. If you just use them when starter is tired you may not be getting enough playing time to keep these guys sharp.

04-13-2011, 02:32 PM	#7
evanbarth Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 328	Anything to tweak to increase pinch hitter performance? Is it a bug in certain roster files?