Question for people who have played Historical

[Chicagofan76]

for those of u that have played an historical 1871-2010 league, what happened after 1881? Meaning did STL turn into Louisville Eclipse for u also and then STL became an expansion team?

I am debating whether or not to keep St Louis Brown stockings intact and then make Louisville The expansion team by changing the names around.

[1998 Yankees]

See below. The first screen print is my league evolution up to 1892.

By the way, this does not happen automatically; I've been recording the changes manually (and dating everything as of April 1 of the season in which it took effect, not the previous offseason date when it was changed). I read a thread someplace that said this would be automatic under certain circumstances, but I don't know what they would be.

The second screen print is my league structure during the 1892 season.

[Chicagofan76]

but for u which is the expansion team? the existing St Louis Brown Stockings or the Louisville Eclipse which then turns STL into the expansion team.


I think i am gonna turn LOU into STL they way it shoudl be and STL into LOU with expansion players.

[rocknfire7]

Aren't they an expansion team only in that the league is expanding? The B-Stockings will generally have the same players on them that they had while in the AA. More players added to the league via a whole team moving in as opposed to a couple of playerless teams "raiding" talent from others.

Of course you can always do what you want with the teams.

[Chicagofan76]

in the game 1871 historical version the Brown Stockings started out in 1871 now in 1881 when the game expands the league by 8 teams. in stead of having the Louisville Eclipse be an expansion team it moved STL to LOU and made STL an exspansion team..... IRL the orig STL b- stockings were never the Louisville Eclipse. or the Eclipse were never the B-stockings.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

but for u which is the expansion team? the existing St Louis Brown Stockings or the Louisville Eclipse which then turns STL into the expansion team.


I think i am gonna turn LOU into STL they way it shoudl be and STL into LOU with expansion players.

Here, Louisville was the expansion team in 1882. The SLBS changed leagues and I believe will become the St. Louis Browns of the American League.

Folks who are following this thread: This is how things are evolving in OOTP, not necessarily how they evolved IRL. I'm not a baseball historian, but I think things are somewhat simplified in the game.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

in the game 1871 historical version the Brown Stockings started out in 1871 now in 1881 when the game expands the league by 8 teams. in stead of having the Louisville Eclipse be an expansion team it moved STL to LOU and made STL an exspansion team..... IRL the orig STL b- stockings were never the Louisville Eclipse. or the Eclipse were never the B-stockings.

Actually, reading this post and reconsidering my last one, you may be right, Cf76. That could have been the way the game treated the situation and I merely recorded in my evolution history what I thought had happened.

I did not follow the situation closely enough to see which team was actually the expansion one; the new entry in the American Association was the SLBS and may indeed have been the team receiving expansion draft players. My comment above about how this game only loosely reflects early baseball history still stands, however.

[Chicagofan76]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

My comment above about how this game only loosely reflects early baseball history still stands, however.

thats why what i am playing is a semi historical version since i have players that werent on other teams since i will have 130 yrs of world series and all star games by 2010...and since the game pre 1901 isnt accurate at all for how RL was its at time more fun..


do u have signing bonuses turned on? charles comiskey asked and received $600 sb in the ammy draft 1 yr my top 4 picks all didnt sign cuz they were asking for too much of a sb for 1879.

also what else do u have turned on or off? i turned FA off along with arbitration. what is another why to place someone on waivers with FA turned off? i released 12 players that werent getting more then 12 ab's a sn. I created the Pacific Coast League for my AAA just so some players would have stats to make it easier to trade them.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

do u have signing bonuses turned on?

Off, but not out of any sense of history. I tried this new feature with another league and quickly got tired of it. It's repetitive and it all depends on your owners generosity and available cash. You get into a downward spiral if you have a cheap boss and a crummy team with low attendance.

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

also what else do u have turned on or off? i turned FA off along with arbitration.

Heh, more departure from history IRL because I have these ON. Moreover, I have four levels of minor leagues WAY before they were "invented" by Branch Rickey because I like seeing players develop with stats instead of just growing them farmlike on a reserve roster.

The only things I have consciously done historically are:

• no foreigners until mid-20th Century or later (but I certainly don't bar "colored' players)
• no DH until the last quarter of the 20th Century
• allow the game to evolve and expand the league, and
• allow the game to set historic finances, strategic tendencies, and stats totals.

I even have had the World Series every year since 1871! I'm not much of an historical simmer, I guess.

Edit: But, I am having fun!

[Chicagofan76]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Edit: But, I am having fun!

I laso have played the WS Reds and Athletics r the best 2 teams so far reds with 3 a's with 2 but they have each played in 4.

I turn FA off because in another 1871 league i had going players were making 20 k by 1897. the SB is getting too high i plan on turning it off after i finish setting up my minors and the other 7 new expansion teams. i use No Peppers sets for each team early on. I will prob use the DH when it comes around and i plan on turning on FA in 1967?...but once i hit 2011 DH will be gone and i plan on expanding to 32 teams Las Vegas and prob Charlotte or Nashville...and by 2040 i am gonna get rid of 1 teams out of each city that has more then 1 team. White Sox and Cubs become the Fire. Yankees stay but get Mets players or become the Dodgers or Gothams. etc. long way away so far.

Do u change STA for pitchers? i changed Pud Galvin to 10 out of 10and I plan on changing Cy Young otherwise they always become closers.

Do u know how to check history of AS games?

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

1) I turn FA off because in another 1871 league i had going players were making 20 k by 1897 . . .

2) i use No Peppers sets for each team early on.

3) I will prob use the DH when it comes around and i plan on turning on FA in 1967?...

4) and by 2040 i am gonna get rid of 1 teams out of each city that has more then 1 team. White Sox and Cubs become the Fire. Yankees stay but get Mets players or become the Dodgers or Gothams. etc. long way away so far.

5) Do u change STA for pitchers?

6) Do u know how to check history of AS games?

1) That's strange, because I'm only four years behind that and in 1893, the top guy in my 1893 makes only $2,233 and everybody else is below $2K. I've sometimes wondered if we as the human player can artificially inflate salaries by continually caving in to inflated salary demands (if cash is available). Of course, this is all historically moot as there was no free agency until the 1970's...

2) That's one thing I should have included in my list of historical efforts - I do try to dress my players in period costumes. No Pepper's stuff is superb, but don't overlook the uni mods by acetonic, Cooleyvol, and fhommess (all available on PadreFan's web site, under FaceGen). I cherry-pick from all of them.

3) Man, I cannot wait until DH time. What do you do with that monster at the plate who cannot field to save his life? Twice I have released guys like that and I noticed the AI did not pick them up either.

4) LOL (good-naturedly) at the prospect of us reaching 2040 without our leagues collapsing and self-destructing under their own weight! But if we do, I like your ideas which have given me some of my own.

5) No need, because I play with fictional players. I can see you doing some tweaks, though, as you describe.

6) Sorry, but I don't know that A-S history is available anywhere in the game. I think not. The only way to preserve it AFAIK is to seek out and save the box scores every year.

[reflections]

Love it guys.
I'm starting up a expansive idea that i've been toying with sense..well for awhile.
Starting in 1871 and moving up, but adding all indie minor leagues and foreign leagues (as they happen in real life), and with the minor leagues, I would look to have them segue way into some of the more current leagues ala the International League would in 1886 as a indie league and the Pacific Coast League would begin in 1887 and continue on till the 40's, when I'll let the Major leagues begin to start minor leagues..I'm also gonna give the Union Association and Players League a go as competing (they'll add the Federal League teams to their league in 1914)... Hopefully it'll work. lol

[kev24fan]

I normally play historical myself. I would like to use the same as they did in real life. You have to start with minor leagues when you set the league up or else it does not work right. At least it did not work for me.

[kev24fan]

I am trying to set up a new try at Historical. On player development what do you which do you use when you set it up? Recalculate player ratings before each season using real stats, Use talent ratings?

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by kev24fan

I am trying to set up a new try at Historical. On player development what do you which do you use when you set it up? Recalculate player ratings before each season using real stats, Use talent ratings?

It depends on what you want. If you want players to stay close to their real life performances, then choose to recalculate player ratings, check the box to tell OOTP not to recalculate potential ratings, and have them retire and miss seasons according to history.

However, if you prefer random elements and a saved game that will deviate from reality in some potentially interesting ways, then use the player development engine instead. But be warned that this means that a Hall of Famer could end up being worthless, and a player who only had a cup of coffee in real life could become a Hall of Famer.

[Chicagofan76]

Originally Posted by kev24fan

I normally play historical myself. I would like to use the same as they did in real life. You have to start with minor leagues when you set the league up or else it does not work right. At least it did not work for me.

i started with teh game as is 1871 roster i added the PCL in 1880

go to league setup and then add minor league...for my old 1871-2010 league i had AAA, AA & A i added each 20 yrs apart.

[1998 Yankees]

I'm updating this to answer my friend who asked this question in another thread:

Originally Posted by myasu

Hi Bruce,
Is this a historical-fictional league? (I mean Historical MLB setup with fictional players)
Could you share your league setup/idea with me?

Basically, I started an historical league in the year 1871, the first year available. Rather than play with historical players, however, I released everybody, deleted all free agents, filled teams with fictional players, then released everybody again and scheduled an inaugural draft.

What I was looking for was the evolving league structure and historical strategic tendencies and financials, but with fictional players. Repeating from above:

Off, but not out of any sense of history. I tried this new feature with another league and quickly got tired of it. It's repetitive and it all depends on your owners generosity and available cash. You get into a downward spiral if you have a cheap boss and a crummy team with low attendance.

Heh, more departure from history IRL because I have these ON. Moreover, I have four levels of minor leagues WAY before they were "invented" by Branch Rickey because I like seeing players develop with stats instead of just growing them farmlike on a reserve roster.

The only things I have consciously done historically are:

• no foreigners until mid-20th Century or later (but I certainly don't bar "colored' players)
• no DH until the last quarter of the 20th Century
• allow the game to evolve and expand the league, and
• allow the game to set historic finances, strategic tendencies, and stats totals.

Those are just preferences; I could have been much more strict with myself to not introduce minor leagues until they historically appeared, for example.

Below is a snapshot of my Historical settings. What I don't have checked is as important as what is; for example, I don't want to Automatically Import Historical Rookies because I want the game to make fictional players for the amateur draft.

Now I'm just letting the game update itself as I progress from year to year. For financials, it's following the data in the financials.txt file. For style and quality of baseball, it's pulling data from the era_ text files (era_modifiers.txt, era_stats.txt, etc.) and total_modifiers.txt.

I'm not sure where it's getting league and franchise history from, though. I'm just tracking it manually, as seen below (I date everything April 1). The only hassle is having to update team logos and uniforms each time a change occurs.

[myasu]

This is a great thread.
Thanks Chicagofan76, 1998 Yankees!

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by myasu

This is a great thread.

Yes indeed, although we have strayed from what cf76 asked in the OP. I like this thread because it reflects what I have only gotten into now, for the first time, after six years of playing OOTP: a blend of historical and fictional play.

I had always started my leagues in 2001, calling them "Millenium League" or something like that. Why 2001? Don't laugh: It was easy to see how many seasons I had played just by looking at the year. 2032 was my 32nd season, and so on. Ok, go ahead and laugh.

For some reason, I had never thought to play historically but with fictional players (I think some advances in recent versions have made it easier to do so, too). Now, though, I really like the fictional stats and results going hand-in-hand with historical trends like the Deadball Era.

Right now, my league is in the year 1902. No disrespect to historical simmers whatsoever, but if I were playing with guys like Honus Wagner and Rube Waddell who I KNOW were going to be good and probably lead their Pittsburgh Pirates and Philadelphia Athletics to pennants in '02, I'd be bored.

Instead, I'm about to embark on my own campaign to win the NL pennant for the Brooklyn Superbas (who finished in second place with a 75-63 record IRL in 1902, but 27 1/2 games behind the 103-36 Pirates). My big guns are future HoF'er SP Warren Glendenning and 10-year veteran 2B Jim "Smoke" Balcom, a lifetime .313 hitter.

Never heard of these guys? Good!

[myasu]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

I had always started my leagues in 2001, calling them "Millenium League" or something like that. Why 2001? Don't laugh: It was easy to see how many seasons I had played just by looking at the year. 2032 was my 32nd season, and so on. Ok, go ahead and laugh.

I wouldn't laugh at all.

I had always started my MLB setup, fictional players leagues in 2011, pretending that 1994 strike had led to the league extinction and the year 2011 had been the first year of the new MLB. (I had to have the excuse for my league having no history)

This is Saturday noon over here in Tokyo, and I am going to set up the similar league as yours today, and give it a try!