Indians C Carlos Santana

Bobbuttons · 07-23-2010, 11:06 PM

I'm not sure how many people outside of Northeast Ohio know much about Carlos Santana (the catcher, not the master of the guitar). He came over to the Tribe in the trade that sent Casey Blake to Los Angeles. He's been considered a top prospect for the Tribe ever since and this season he was finally handed the starting job a couple of months into the season.

The guy can hit, certainly. Of his 33 hits so far this year, 19 have been for extra bases. He's hitting .280 heading into tonight's game. His hitting, though, hasn't been what's impressed me about him. I've never seen a player his age with such a good eye. This guy can work a count like nobody's business. He's averaging 4.29 pitches per plate appearance, which would place him in the top 10 in the league if he had enough at bats. He's played in 37 games this season, and he's walked 34 times. And so many times it's after he's behind 0-2 or 1-2 that he works the walk. His OBP is .431, which would put him second in MLB to Justin Morneau. His 162 game total based on his 37 games this season would equal 144 walks... for a 24-year old.

Tonight, in a game separated by a couple of rain delays against the Rays, he's a mere 0-1. But his at bat was a rocket shot RBI groundout to first. His other two plate appearances? Big surprise... both walks.

Just thought I'd share.

jbergey22 · 07-23-2010, 11:08 PM

Watched him just play against the Twins and I completely agree.

damientheomen3 · 07-23-2010, 11:12 PM

Carlos Santana is a top 10 MLB prospect so I'm pretty sure most noncasual fans would know about him.

rudel.dietrich · 07-24-2010, 03:40 AM

That is pretty amazing. I wonder how much of it is compensated by low sample size and a poor Indians lineup however.
That is 144 BB per 162 games which is fairly amazing given his age.

However I think Jason Heyward is the best prospect in baseball at the moment in terms of eye and potential eye.
He is on pace for 89 BB per 162

Surprisingly or unsurprisingly that is not anywhere near a record.
Here are the top 5 based on an article from fangraph.com

Here are two lists for most walks by a player 21 or below.

T5. 103 BB by Jimmie Foxx – 1929 Philadelphia, 21-years-old, 638 plate appearances (16.1%)
T5. 103 BB by Mel Ott – 1930 New York, 21-years-old, 646 plate appearances (15.9 %)
3. 107 BB by Ted Williams – 1939 Boston, 20-years-old, 677 plate appearances (15.8%)
2. 113 BB by Mel Ott – 1929 New York, 20-years-old, 674 plate appearances (16.8%)
1. 117 BB by Rickey Henderson – 1980 Oakland, 21-years-old, 722 plate appearances (16.2%)

That is elite company and also shows how underrated Ricky Henderson is. He was great at 21 and stayed great for 20 years.

Anyways, from 1990 onwards here is the list.

1. Ken Griffey Jr. 71
2. Albert Pujols 69
3. Miguel Cabrera 68
4. Delino DeShields 66
5. Ken Griffey Jr. 63
6. Ryan Zimmerman 61
7. Adrian Beltre 61
8. Alex Rodriguez 59
9. Melky Cabrera 56
10. Adrian Beltre 56

Again that is some pretty elite company and Heyward if he continues seeing regular playing time could set or shatter that record by 10-15 walks if he quickens the pace a little.
Barry Bonds by comparison started playing regularly at age 21 and had 65 in 484 PA
Ted Williams had 147 by age 22

Santana needs a full season or at least a half season of data before we can really start to examine him and get a fuller sample size.
I will be keeping an eye on him and seeing how he progresses in the next few years and seeing if this amazing pace keeps up.

Goody · 07-24-2010, 04:55 AM

Picked him up in fantasy league before he was called up so I've been watching closely. He's amazing. Even more amazing is that he's only slowly climbed up to 57% started in Yahoo fantasy leagues.

07-23-2010, 11:06 PM	#1
Bobbuttons Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Picturesque Mentor-on-the-Lake, Ohio Posts: 3,708	Indians C Carlos Santana I'm not sure how many people outside of Northeast Ohio know much about Carlos Santana (the catcher, not the master of the guitar). He came over to the Tribe in the trade that sent Casey Blake to Los Angeles. He's been considered a top prospect for the Tribe ever since and this season he was finally handed the starting job a couple of months into the season. The guy can hit, certainly. Of his 33 hits so far this year, 19 have been for extra bases. He's hitting .280 heading into tonight's game. His hitting, though, hasn't been what's impressed me about him. I've never seen a player his age with such a good eye. This guy can work a count like nobody's business. He's averaging 4.29 pitches per plate appearance, which would place him in the top 10 in the league if he had enough at bats. He's played in 37 games this season, and he's walked 34 times. And so many times it's after he's behind 0-2 or 1-2 that he works the walk. His OBP is .431, which would put him second in MLB to Justin Morneau. His 162 game total based on his 37 games this season would equal 144 walks... for a 24-year old. Tonight, in a game separated by a couple of rain delays against the Rays, he's a mere 0-1. But his at bat was a rocket shot RBI groundout to first. His other two plate appearances? Big surprise... both walks. Just thought I'd share. __________________ Frankenstein never scared me. Marsupials do....cause they're fast! Gibson swings, and a fly ball to deep right field! This is gonna be a home run! Unbelievable! A home run for Gibson! And the Dodgers have won the game, 5 to 4; I don't believe what I just saw! I don't believe what I just saw!

07-24-2010, 03:40 AM	#4
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608	That is pretty amazing. I wonder how much of it is compensated by low sample size and a poor Indians lineup however. That is 144 BB per 162 games which is fairly amazing given his age. However I think Jason Heyward is the best prospect in baseball at the moment in terms of eye and potential eye. He is on pace for 89 BB per 162 Surprisingly or unsurprisingly that is not anywhere near a record. Here are the top 5 based on an article from fangraph.com Here are two lists for most walks by a player 21 or below. T5. 103 BB by Jimmie Foxx – 1929 Philadelphia, 21-years-old, 638 plate appearances (16.1%) T5. 103 BB by Mel Ott – 1930 New York, 21-years-old, 646 plate appearances (15.9 %) 3. 107 BB by Ted Williams – 1939 Boston, 20-years-old, 677 plate appearances (15.8%) 2. 113 BB by Mel Ott – 1929 New York, 20-years-old, 674 plate appearances (16.8%) 1. 117 BB by Rickey Henderson – 1980 Oakland, 21-years-old, 722 plate appearances (16.2%) That is elite company and also shows how underrated Ricky Henderson is. He was great at 21 and stayed great for 20 years. Anyways, from 1990 onwards here is the list. 1. Ken Griffey Jr. 71 2. Albert Pujols 69 3. Miguel Cabrera 68 4. Delino DeShields 66 5. Ken Griffey Jr. 63 6. Ryan Zimmerman 61 7. Adrian Beltre 61 8. Alex Rodriguez 59 9. Melky Cabrera 56 10. Adrian Beltre 56 Again that is some pretty elite company and Heyward if he continues seeing regular playing time could set or shatter that record by 10-15 walks if he quickens the pace a little. Barry Bonds by comparison started playing regularly at age 21 and had 65 in 484 PA Ted Williams had 147 by age 22 Santana needs a full season or at least a half season of data before we can really start to examine him and get a fuller sample size. I will be keeping an eye on him and seeing how he progresses in the next few years and seeing if this amazing pace keeps up. Last edited by rudel.dietrich; 07-24-2010 at 03:43 AM.

07-23-2010, 11:08 PM	#2
jbergey22 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,481	Watched him just play against the Twins and I completely agree.

07-24-2010, 04:55 AM	#5
Goody Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: South Korea Posts: 3,530	Picked him up in fantasy league before he was called up so I've been watching closely. He's amazing. Even more amazing is that he's only slowly climbed up to 57% started in Yahoo fantasy leagues.