Having trouble finding right settings for 1975 historical league.

robc · 04-21-2010, 10:09 AM

I'm having trouble finding a good combination of settings.

I started off with using recalc and no ootp development, but then you lose the potentials based on their entire career. I wanted the players to develop close to their real history.

So I switched to no recalc, use ootp development so I get the player's potentials based on their remaining career. Now a player like Ron Guidry in 1975 imports with a stamina of 20 and is a reliever. Since I don't use recalc he will probably forever stay a reliever.

I could base stamina on their career, but then what happens to a player like Dennis Eckersly?

I know the game can't account for everything (except I do think potentials could work when using recalc

), but what can I do to get a happy medium?

Thanks

SteveP · 04-21-2010, 01:04 PM

Well, let's clear up a couple of things:

1. If you are using recalc, the potentials rating is irrelevant. You might as well ignore it. It is useful only as a kind of magnet that draws player development in a certain direction. But player development is irrelevant if you are using recalc -- except for what might happen during a given season.

2. Recalc fixes some things, but messes up other things. For example, you could have an SS play the whole season at 3B, but he will forget everything he knew about playing 3B at the start of the next season, if he didn't play that position IRL. Turning off recalc fixes some things but messes up other things. As you have discovered. There is no solution. Part of the problem (and we all have it) is that you get focused on one or two guys, and get upset because the game doesn't manage their careers to match what happened in real life. Is the cup half empty or half full?

Edit: I realize what I said could be misleading on one point. Using recalc, the potential ratings aren't irrelevent, because they represent information that the AI uses to value players, in things like trades, etc. The AI doesn't know anything about these players and their careers the way you do, so the AI needs that info. Of course, if you also don't know anything about a specific player's career, you might like have the info as well. But the potential rating will be updated every year by recalc just as everything else is.

robc · 04-21-2010, 01:44 PM

Thank you Steve. I know the potentials are not used to drive development when using recalc (unless you also have the development engine turned on for in-season development). I like the potentials for scouting purposes, and think it would help the AI (as you mentioned in your edit).

Your #2 is the other thing I don't like about recalc. I wish there was some option so players wouldn't forget experience they get at positions.

I guess I just can't solve the issues that bug me about historical leagues. In some cases turning off recalc is better and in otherskeeping it on is better.

Is it any better to use the players career for things like pitcher stamina? Does it then average a pitcher's stamina across their career or use the most predominent one?

SteveP · 04-21-2010, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robc

Is it any better to use the players career for things like pitcher stamina? Does it then average a pitcher's stamina across their career or use the most predominent one?

I've never quite been able to deduce exactly how stamina is calculated from the stats. It's clearly an averaging, but it's not a simple one. Also, I am pretty sure that the stamina gets adjusted once the stat calculation process has determined if a guy is going to be an SP or an RP. But really, that's my own inferences. I wouldn't mind getting a more authoritative answer to it, myself.

Charlie Hough · 04-21-2010, 06:36 PM

I've found that the only way to play historicals with any level of realism is with recalc turned on. Otherwise players simply will not evolve like they did in real life. Many may follow a similar path when compared to real life, but you will see many highly unsual variations that go beyond just a couple of players here and there.

The problem with recalc is the issue with potential ratings. As this gets discussed more and more on the forums, I'm struck even more and more by how absolutely dumb this approach to potentials vs. recalc is. The AI simply has no chance to compete against the human manage in a historical game when recalc is turned. But all it would take to level the playing field is to separate the career potential ratings from the recalc.

I just can't imagine how this could make any sense from a game development standpoint and why this wouldn't have been fixed several versions ago.

actionjackson · 04-21-2010, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robc

Thank you Steve. I know the potentials are not used to drive development when using recalc (unless you also have the development engine turned on for in-season development). I like the potentials for scouting purposes, and think it would help the AI (as you mentioned in your edit).

Your #2 is the other thing I don't like about recalc. I wish there was some option so players wouldn't forget experience they get at positions.

I guess I just can't solve the issues that bug me about historical leagues. In some cases turning off recalc is better and in otherskeeping it on is better.

Is it any better to use the players career for things like pitcher stamina? Does it then average a pitcher's stamina across their career or use the most predominent one?

Go to OOTP Menu > Game Setup > League Setup > Historical. There, under the heading of "Historical Progressing Options", you'll find a little tiny nondescript box after the expansion draft settings and before the auto adjust league strategy/retire according to history/recalc etc called Base roles/positions on. The default is real life stats, while the alternative setting is AI evaluation. Interestingly, the example cited in the manual is Dennis Eckersley. With real life stats checked I think (SteveP please correct if wrong) Dennis Eckersley will shift to the bullpen when he did IRL. Whereas I think his role could be at the mercy of the AI's evaluation abilities which might be not be a bad thing.

Both settings could have pluses and minuses. The real life stats setting is probably part of your problem now that I think of it because e.g. Craig Biggio will start as a C (1988 - 1991), then go to 2B (1992 - 2002), then CF (2003), LF (2004), and finally back in to 2B to finish up his career (2005 - 2007) when he did IRL. First off what a team player. Secondly, that's a lot of movement all over the diamond. The AI evaluation setting might look at him and say "Geez, he'd make a decent 2B" and just send him out there. Like I said SteveP and others know better than me on this, but that's my interpretation. Hope this helps!

robc · 04-22-2010, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Go to OOTP Menu > Game Setup > League Setup > Historical. There, under the heading of "Historical Progressing Options", you'll find a little tiny nondescript box after the expansion draft settings and before the auto adjust league strategy/retire according to history/recalc etc called Base roles/positions on. The default is real life stats, while the alternative setting is AI evaluation. Interestingly, the example cited in the manual is Dennis Eckersley. With real life stats checked I think (SteveP please correct if wrong) Dennis Eckersley will shift to the bullpen when he did IRL. Whereas I think his role could be at the mercy of the AI's evaluation abilities which might be not be a bad thing.

Both settings could have pluses and minuses. The real life stats setting is probably part of your problem now that I think of it because e.g. Craig Biggio will start as a C (1988 - 1991), then go to 2B (1992 - 2002), then CF (2003), LF (2004), and finally back in to 2B to finish up his career (2005 - 2007) when he did IRL. First off what a team player. Secondly, that's a lot of movement all over the diamond. The AI evaluation setting might look at him and say "Geez, he'd make a decent 2B" and just send him out there. Like I said SteveP and others know better than me on this, but that's my interpretation. Hope this helps!

I do belive you are right in how that setting works. I did eye it when I set up my league. In the case of Guidry (low initial stamina) and Eckersly (high initial stamina), is that is recalc is off, they will have their low and high staminas forever(more or less). If I have recalc on, then they will progres to their roles as in real life.

I think recalc is the way I want to run this league, but it I really want the potentials to be for their entire career. If that could be fixed I think I would be pleased (not that I wouldn't find something that bugged me), but that one is a biggie!

actionjackson · 04-22-2010, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robc

...If I have recalc on, then they will progres to their roles as in real life.

Provided of course that you have this little setting set to default (real life stats) and not AI evaluation. I have no idea what would happen with player development off, recalc on and base roles positions on AI evaluation. If anyone's tried it, step right up and let us know. Thanks.

04-21-2010, 10:09 AM	#1
robc Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,095	Having trouble finding right settings for 1975 historical league. I'm having trouble finding a good combination of settings. I started off with using recalc and no ootp development, but then you lose the potentials based on their entire career. I wanted the players to develop close to their real history. So I switched to no recalc, use ootp development so I get the player's potentials based on their remaining career. Now a player like Ron Guidry in 1975 imports with a stamina of 20 and is a reliever. Since I don't use recalc he will probably forever stay a reliever. I could base stamina on their career, but then what happens to a player like Dennis Eckersly? I know the game can't account for everything (except I do think potentials could work when using recalc ), but what can I do to get a happy medium? Thanks

04-21-2010, 01:04 PM	#2
SteveP Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,109	Well, let's clear up a couple of things: 1. If you are using recalc, the potentials rating is irrelevant. You might as well ignore it. It is useful only as a kind of magnet that draws player development in a certain direction. But player development is irrelevant if you are using recalc -- except for what might happen during a given season. 2. Recalc fixes some things, but messes up other things. For example, you could have an SS play the whole season at 3B, but he will forget everything he knew about playing 3B at the start of the next season, if he didn't play that position IRL. Turning off recalc fixes some things but messes up other things. As you have discovered. There is no solution. Part of the problem (and we all have it) is that you get focused on one or two guys, and get upset because the game doesn't manage their careers to match what happened in real life. Is the cup half empty or half full? Edit: I realize what I said could be misleading on one point. Using recalc, the potential ratings aren't irrelevent, because they represent information that the AI uses to value players, in things like trades, etc. The AI doesn't know anything about these players and their careers the way you do, so the AI needs that info. Of course, if you also don't know anything about a specific player's career, you might like have the info as well. But the potential rating will be updated every year by recalc just as everything else is. Last edited by SteveP; 04-21-2010 at 01:11 PM.

04-21-2010, 01:44 PM	#3
robc Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,095	Thank you Steve. I know the potentials are not used to drive development when using recalc (unless you also have the development engine turned on for in-season development). I like the potentials for scouting purposes, and think it would help the AI (as you mentioned in your edit). Your #2 is the other thing I don't like about recalc. I wish there was some option so players wouldn't forget experience they get at positions. I guess I just can't solve the issues that bug me about historical leagues. In some cases turning off recalc is better and in otherskeeping it on is better. Is it any better to use the players career for things like pitcher stamina? Does it then average a pitcher's stamina across their career or use the most predominent one?

04-21-2010, 06:36 PM	#5
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,644	I've found that the only way to play historicals with any level of realism is with recalc turned on. Otherwise players simply will not evolve like they did in real life. Many may follow a similar path when compared to real life, but you will see many highly unsual variations that go beyond just a couple of players here and there. The problem with recalc is the issue with potential ratings. As this gets discussed more and more on the forums, I'm struck even more and more by how absolutely dumb this approach to potentials vs. recalc is. The AI simply has no chance to compete against the human manage in a historical game when recalc is turned. But all it would take to level the playing field is to separate the career potential ratings from the recalc. I just can't imagine how this could make any sense from a game development standpoint and why this wouldn't have been fixed several versions ago.