is OOTP 11 ruined for your online league?

[yajeflow]

i like a few of the additions that are said to be included. baseball cards? cool. single-game records? excellent! but when i saw two things on there, a move to this version for my league will likely not happen.

"Draft-eligible players are also now created with higher overall ratings, resulting in realistic simulation results even at the lowest minor league levels"

"Re-coded layer development system, resulting in even more realistic career curves"

my league is all about statistical relevance and historical integrity. the universe we use has the era stats all duped to be identical, meaning that a homer in 1812 has the same impact as a homer in 1985. there is no need to convert or adjust the stats based upon some league-wide false trend.

this holds true for each of the three minor league levels we use, as well. each league has its records and sacred stats. messing with these renders the whole league meaningless. our league totals modifiers were all adjusted prior to launch and are now set in stone. while this new system might technically be BETTER, it still would render everything that has come before it as meaningless unfortunately.

by the way, the career curves in the current version of OOTP are so outstanding and frustratingly unpredictable, that i simply cannot fathom how this could be 'improved'. if it ain't broke - don't fix it!!

so our league is likely never to move to OOTP 11. oh, well. i will still get it and run it through various tests to study the impact of these changes.

so what about YOUR league? are your stat results sacred, or does changing the parameters seem fine to you? now, i DO understand that i might be a little bit of a freak here. for example, if i had one wish, it would be to go back to 1936 or so and off hitler for his atrocity of screwing with baseball. so many player's careers were screwed with, and then there was the balata ball they used during the war. don't get me started. grrrrr!

[JTSMOOTH]

Probably a little early to be talking about a game ruining your stats before you have even tried it isn't it?

Stats/records are "sacred" in my league too. If the players coming in are coming in better and performing more like realistic draftees rather than most of them struggling in their first season, I don't see that as a bad thing. I also don't see the downside to "realistic simulation at the lowest minor league levels", if its more realistic, would that really ruin any records?

Originally Posted by yajeflow

i like a few of the additions that are said to be included. baseball cards? cool. single-game records? excellent! but when i saw two things on there, a move to this version for my league will likely not happen.

"Draft-eligible players are also now created with higher overall ratings, resulting in realistic simulation results even at the lowest minor league levels"

"Re-coded layer development system, resulting in even more realistic career curves"

my league is all about statistical relevance and historical integrity. the universe we use has the era stats all duped to be identical, meaning that a homer in 1812 has the same impact as a homer in 1985. there is no need to convert or adjust the stats based upon some league-wide false trend.

this holds true for each of the three minor league levels we use, as well. each league has its records and sacred stats. messing with these renders the whole league meaningless. our league totals modifiers were all adjusted prior to launch and are now set in stone. while this new system might technically be BETTER, it still would render everything that has come before it as meaningless unfortunately.

by the way, the career curves in the current version of OOTP are so outstanding and frustratingly unpredictable, that i simply cannot fathom how this could be 'improved'. if it ain't broke - don't fix it!!

so our league is likely never to move to OOTP 11. oh, well. i will still get it and run it through various tests to study the impact of these changes.

so what about YOUR league? are your stat results sacred, or does changing the parameters seem fine to you? now, i DO understand that i might be a little bit of a freak here. for example, if i had one wish, it would be to go back to 1936 or so and off hitler for his atrocity of screwing with baseball. so many player's careers were screwed with, and then there was the balata ball they used during the war. don't get me started. grrrrr!

[Dark Horse]

Stats wouldn't bother me. If they get too out of control, you reset modifiers and keep going.

My worry with online leagues are that there are features that might intimidate other owners and as a result i won't get to use them. I can see league where guys won't want to take advantage of:

A totally re-coded amateur draft with optional signing bonuses, player demands, a slotting system, post-draft contract & bonus negotiations, and compensation picks for unsigned picks. Also, when feeder leagues are used, undrafted/unsigned high school players may go to college and continue playing!

Team owners with distinct personalities, providing constant feedback about your performance

Improved immersion factor, including better modeled player personalities and a brand new "storyline engine"

If they don't use them in my online leagues, i would probably not get to use them. Even if i tried a solo league, i probably wouldn't enjoy it as much, it's human reaction that makes these interesting.

[TGH-Adfabre]

No, the league I am in is changing a little now. Pitching used to be more dominant, hitting records have started to fall over the last few seasons. This may not be OOTP X though. There was some artficial adjustment of talent before my time that effected overall league talent. A few freaks were born from those experiments, those freaks are aging now and will be out of the player pool over the next few seasons.
We will go to XI after a patch or two.

[yajeflow]

Originally Posted by JTSMOOTH

I also don't see the downside to "realistic simulation at the lowest minor league levels", if its more realistic, would that really ruin any records?

simple. what we have now is what it is. good or bad, the stats were achieved using a system that produced them. so if there is a change - good or bad - the results will be different. this taints any mixing of data. think of it like genetically-modified food. GM corn ain't corn. it is GM corn.

okay, maybe the analogy stunk. how about this actual stuff:
our single-A record for homers is 18. that seems low, and it is on the low side. the parameters used are .960 for hits, .640 for HR, and .296 for BABIP. the SABRmetric player creation modifier used for homers is .450. in our league, to maintain pure stat performances, these will never change.

so now comes along a different and 'improved' system that would make for more 'realistic' numbers. maybe all of these parameters would need to be changed to some other figures. or maybe not. regardless, the results will be different. the stats created will no longer be pure. if a player under this new system hits 20 homers, would it be a 'real' 20 homers, or would it just be because some computer modification occurred? the fact that it might be BETTER is irrelevant. the fact that it is DIFFERENT renders it all pointless.

obviously, if you don't care about your league's history so much, or if you are starting a fresh league, chances are that it will be better. but i am a stat geek, period. if the stats don't matter, then i have zero interest in it. i care far less about winning titles or stuff like that. i demand a pure stat environment where everything is on equal footing.

[endgame]

Color me a little confused here, but on conversion, won't all of your parameters convert as well? How players develop within that context are still created and affected by your existing parameters. These kinds of improvements or tweaks, in one form or another, have been implemented over more than just the last two or three versions. So, tell me where I'm misunderstanding you here, understanding that you'll either buy or demo the game first, certainly. Do you fear your existing parameters and/or league totals will be altered in some way by the new engine or by its development process? I guess I see it in a similar fashion to a tiger in a cage. Regardless of the size of the tiger, his limits of movement are still in place, notwithstanding the occasional beast who runs amuck and breaks the lock. But I'm sure that's happened even in your existing history, has it not?

[JTSMOOTH]

I guess I don't care about Rookie League and S-A record quite as much as you, as I'd much rather have a realistic environment than worry about whether my S-A record of 18 HR was broken by 2 HR because the game has evolved. Plus if the records were set in a less realistic environment, that bothers me even less.

Nothing wrong with either styles of play, I understand your point about any change, regardless of good or bad will affect your records at the low levels of the minors, but again personally I'd much rather have realistic results at the low levels for the new draftees rather than having the majority of the top picks hit a buck fifty and look lost in their first season of pro ball.

Not often you hear a "stat geek" complain about more realistic results.

If your really overly concerned about your low level minor league records, you could always run a few test leagues to find settings you like that will not tarnish your Rookie A ball records.

Originally Posted by yajeflow

simple. what we have now is what it is. good or bad, the stats were achieved using a system that produced them. so if there is a change - good or bad - the results will be different. this taints any mixing of data. think of it like genetically-modified food. GM corn ain't corn. it is GM corn.

okay, maybe the analogy stunk. how about this actual stuff:
our single-A record for homers is 18. that seems low, and it is on the low side. the parameters used are .960 for hits, .640 for HR, and .296 for BABIP. the SABRmetric player creation modifier used for homers is .450. in our league, to maintain pure stat performances, these will never change.

so now comes along a different and 'improved' system that would make for more 'realistic' numbers. maybe all of these parameters would need to be changed to some other figures. or maybe not. regardless, the results will be different. the stats created will no longer be pure. if a player under this new system hits 20 homers, would it be a 'real' 20 homers, or would it just be because some computer modification occurred? the fact that it might be BETTER is irrelevant. the fact that it is DIFFERENT renders it all pointless.

obviously, if you don't care about your league's history so much, or if you are starting a fresh league, chances are that it will be better. but i am a stat geek, period. if the stats don't matter, then i have zero interest in it. i care far less about winning titles or stuff like that. i demand a pure stat environment where everything is on equal footing.

[Killing Time]

Originally Posted by jtsmooth

i guess i don't care about rookie league and s-a record quite as much as you, as i'd much rather have a realistic environment than worry about whether my s-a record of 18 hr was broken by 2 hr because the game has evolved.

+1

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by yajeflow

hitler for his atrocity of screwing with baseball. so many player's careers were screwed with

That is really the biggest scar from WWII... it was Hitler screwing with baseball and the statistical integrity that was lost.

I don't even want to know what you think of expansion, Coors Field or Jackie Robinson.

[yajeflow]

Originally Posted by endgame

Color me a little confused here, but on conversion, won't all of your parameters convert as well? How players develop within that context are still created and affected by your existing parameters. These kinds of improvements or tweaks, in one form or another, have been implemented over more than just the last two or three versions. So, tell me where I'm misunderstanding you here, understanding that you'll either buy or demo the game first, certainly. Do you fear your existing parameters and/or league totals will be altered in some way by the new engine or by its development process? I guess I see it in a similar fashion to a tiger in a cage. Regardless of the size of the tiger, his limits of movement are still in place, notwithstanding the occasional beast who runs amuck and breaks the lock. But I'm sure that's happened even in your existing history, has it not?

the parameters will still be the same on the surface with my league, of course. but how OOTP uses them will allegedly be changing. so two things - in my eyes - would happen. 1) all of the sudden, our parameters the way they are result in new unwanted statistical anomalies, rendering the historical record as a tainted mess full of apples and oranges, or 2) we have to change our parameters to fit our current statistical universe, which can obviously never happen to exacting standards. we started in OOTP2007, and it is my understanding that there have been no 'improvements' to the engine in this manner and then to our statistical numbers generated. if there HAVE been, then do not tell me, because i am not listening la la la la la.

in response to the previous responder, it is true that our record book in single-A and all minor league stats are obviously more important to our league than yours. this, as you state, is just a question of taste. we get to maintain our statistical purity be not moving on to the newer version, record book fully intact. and you get to move on to a system that will generate even better and more realistic stats.

then it comes down to what is 'realistic'. our minor league stats as they are are reality...to our league. you can't get any more realistic than what the official record shows. any modification of that based upon some other baseball universe (mlb?) only detracts and spoils our purity. obviously, i wish the 'new and improved' was available at out inception, but it wasn't.

from the looks of it, maybe only my league is concerned about historical stats to a large degree. everyone else's historical record will have asterisks next to all new stats, since they were achieved under a different engine. if that works for you, then good on ya. there is no right answer. it is just what different leagues place value upon, that's all.

[yajeflow]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

That is really the biggest scar from WWII... it was Hitler screwing with baseball and the statistical integrity that was lost.

I don't even want to know what you think of expansion, Coors Field or Jackie Robinson.

i can neither see nor hear you from your lofty perch.

[Markus Heinsohn]

No worries, player creation & development is adjusted in a way that it will not throw off imported leagues. All is good

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by yajeflow

i can neither see nor hear you from your lofty perch.

Not so much a lofty perch, just having some fun with your wording.

[Killing Time]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

No worries, player creation & development is adjusted in a way that it will not throw off imported leagues. All is good

No worries then.