Tim Flannery leads me in a strange direction

sixto · 12-02-2002, 03:55 PM

Pulled these quotes from baseballprospectus.com. My first thought was, Wow, imagine if this sort of thing were a factor in OOTP.

"It's acceptable (in the majors) to golf and play cards and stay out late and drink (after games). But if you play guitar, some people don't understand it."
--Tim Flannery, former Padre third base coach, on why he was fired

"It was always an issue...People would say, 'Oh, he's out doing his music,' while the other guys on the team were out playing golf. Doing music was definitely an oddity."
--Flannery

Then I thought, Jeez, that sure would complicate things. Just because real life is as complicated as this, where it matters whether a guy plays guitar or not as to how well he'll do as a coach, doesn't mean that it would be fun in a game.

For me, FOF "jumped the shark" when it implemented the world's most daunting free agency module I could possibly imagine. I think it's an important consideration for any simulation - what's a fun little quirk, and what's taking it too far?

I'm constantly amazed at how Championship Manager doesn't add anything extraneous and yet seems to have so much lifelikeness. I really feel like I have a board I have to answer to, and it's not like the board is a huge aspect of the game.

Oddly enough, all of that brought me to wonder if I'm wrong about what I actually want from OOTP. Is it actually the negotiation and salary AI that I would most like to see changed for OOTP5? If so, what are some of the ways that this process could seem more lifelike? In CM, you really do feel like you're negotiating with players and other teams.

Maybe it doesn't have to be that I hire or fire Tim Flannery based on what he does in his spare time. But I think that in the long term, an increase in the way coaches and managers and scouts are different from one another, the way players are different from one another and the way players negotiate for their salaries, maybe that actually has the most potential to give the game a 3-D feeling. But also, offers a lot of danger as far as how it could ruin a perfectly good game.

slackmeisterPA · 12-02-2002, 07:49 PM

Interesting post. I haven't played FOF, but what is this new free agency mode you mentioned?

holyroller · 12-02-2002, 08:07 PM

Not sure what he means exactly by the free agency mode, but the game did add some rather odd personality factors. Various positions are put together in groups such as backfield, line, and so forth. Among each group there is a group leader. All players in the group have an affinity rating with the position leader. For example, say that Ricky Williams is the backfield leader for the Dolphins (irony intended). Ray Lucas may have a "strong affinity" with Williams, a "strong conflict" with Williams, or anywhere in between. This does apparently effect performance on the field although I cannot say how much. Additionaly, and I think this jive's with sixto's comments about going to far, the game takes, sit down kiddies, astrological signs in to acount. I don't have the foggiest notion what these effect and frankly, I don't really care and wish they were not in the game. Granted, it would be even nicer if the game hadn't have been tremendously bug ridden on release (thanks to no beta testing) but now I'm getting off-topic.

SanDiegoPadres19 · 12-02-2002, 08:22 PM

good ol flan.. supposdly he was canned so he could coach his sons senior year of high school, then he will be back at the helm of 3rd base for my pads.

12-02-2002, 03:55 PM	#1
sixto Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,271	Tim Flannery leads me in a strange direction Pulled these quotes from baseballprospectus.com. My first thought was, Wow, imagine if this sort of thing were a factor in OOTP. "It's acceptable (in the majors) to golf and play cards and stay out late and drink (after games). But if you play guitar, some people don't understand it." --Tim Flannery, former Padre third base coach, on why he was fired "It was always an issue...People would say, 'Oh, he's out doing his music,' while the other guys on the team were out playing golf. Doing music was definitely an oddity." --Flannery Then I thought, Jeez, that sure would complicate things. Just because real life is as complicated as this, where it matters whether a guy plays guitar or not as to how well he'll do as a coach, doesn't mean that it would be fun in a game. For me, FOF "jumped the shark" when it implemented the world's most daunting free agency module I could possibly imagine. I think it's an important consideration for any simulation - what's a fun little quirk, and what's taking it too far? I'm constantly amazed at how Championship Manager doesn't add anything extraneous and yet seems to have so much lifelikeness. I really feel like I have a board I have to answer to, and it's not like the board is a huge aspect of the game. Oddly enough, all of that brought me to wonder if I'm wrong about what I actually want from OOTP. Is it actually the negotiation and salary AI that I would most like to see changed for OOTP5? If so, what are some of the ways that this process could seem more lifelike? In CM, you really do feel like you're negotiating with players and other teams. Maybe it doesn't have to be that I hire or fire Tim Flannery based on what he does in his spare time. But I think that in the long term, an increase in the way coaches and managers and scouts are different from one another, the way players are different from one another and the way players negotiate for their salaries, maybe that actually has the most potential to give the game a 3-D feeling. But also, offers a lot of danger as far as how it could ruin a perfectly good game.

12-02-2002, 08:07 PM	#3
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	Not sure what he means exactly by the free agency mode, but the game did add some rather odd personality factors. Various positions are put together in groups such as backfield, line, and so forth. Among each group there is a group leader. All players in the group have an affinity rating with the position leader. For example, say that Ricky Williams is the backfield leader for the Dolphins (irony intended). Ray Lucas may have a "strong affinity" with Williams, a "strong conflict" with Williams, or anywhere in between. This does apparently effect performance on the field although I cannot say how much. Additionaly, and I think this jive's with sixto's comments about going to far, the game takes, sit down kiddies, astrological signs in to acount. I don't have the foggiest notion what these effect and frankly, I don't really care and wish they were not in the game. Granted, it would be even nicer if the game hadn't have been tremendously bug ridden on release (thanks to no beta testing) but now I'm getting off-topic. __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”

12-02-2002, 08:22 PM	#4
SanDiegoPadres19 All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2002 Location: San Diego Posts: 937	good ol flan.. supposdly he was canned so he could coach his sons senior year of high school, then he will be back at the helm of 3rd base for my pads. __________________ Classic Jerry Colmanisms "Montreal leads Atlanta by three, 5-1." "They throw Winfield out at second, but he's safe." (As Matt Williams took a curtain call after hitting a home run) "Barry Bonds gets a standing ovation as he digs in." (Following the second out) ".. and the Padres win the National League Wes... oh, just got a little exicted." ************** Internet Sim Baseball League, Lo$ Angele$ Dodger$ ISBL Fictional Blog

12-02-2002, 07:49 PM	#2
slackmeisterPA Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 275	Interesting post. I haven't played FOF, but what is this new free agency mode you mentioned?