5 way tie....

Nzsftbl · 10-21-2008, 05:39 AM

Wasn't sure where to put this, here or the dynasty reports...
I have 5 leagues of 20 teams 1 league 1 division, with promotion and relegation; 3 go up, 3 go down. The 3rd team going up is decided in similar fashion as in English soccer: 3rd plays 6th, 4th plays 5th, winners play each other, winner goes up. For this game, all 3 series are 7 game series, so the winner of the playoff is the champion of the league (so to speak; the actual name is "Playoff Final Champion")
After a 162 game season, standings looked like this:
1st 101 wins
2nd 93 wins
3rd 90 wins
4th 87 wins
5th 87 wins
6th 87 wins
7th 87 wins
8th 87 wins
essentially, a 5 way tie for the last 3 playoff spots.
I've learned to play out any game on the last day of the season, so the day wouldn't have finished and I could add "tie-breaking games" as regular season games. Also, I like that playoff spots and other such things are decided on the field, not on paper.
So...what I had is that everyone played 2 games, spread over 3 days.
1 team had won twice, 1 team had lost twice.
So 4th place had 89 wins, 8th place had 87 wins and was eliminated.
The other 3 teams had won once and lost once, which left a virtual tie for 5th, 6th, and 7th place.
Instead of having those teams play each other again, I added a game between the teams that hadn't played each other yet; that gave me the following standings, 4th through 8th
4th 89-75
5th 89-76
6th 88-76
7th 88-77
8th 87-77
So...even if the game would be able to handle regular ties between 2 or 3 teams, this would be a bit too much to ask for

Cryomaniac · 10-21-2008, 09:27 AM

The game doesn't handle 3 way ties how it's done in real life, so there's not really any hope for 5 way ties.

I prefer a round robin style of tie-breaking, where everyone plays everyone (ok in this instance that is 4 extra games...).

PhillieFever · 10-21-2008, 11:30 AM

Unfortunately,baseball dosen't lend itself to that sort of system very well,the only thing you can do is like the last poster said,have a round robin tournament

JoseRijo · 10-21-2008, 01:54 PM

I say make each tied team play 2 regular season games. Give each team a letter A B C D and E, no point in seeding, assume they are all equal.

Team A plays at home vs Team B and on the road vs Team E
Team B plays at home vs Team C and on the road vs Team A
Team C plays at home vs Team D and on the road vs Team B
Team D plays at home vs Team E and on the road vs Team C
Team E plays at home vs Team A and on the road vs Team D

Chances are this will sort it all out for you. If not, make the next tie breaker automatic, like Head to Head record versus the other 4 teams in the pool over the regular season.

Le Grande Orange · 10-21-2008, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

Unfortunately,baseball dosen't lend itself to that sort of system very well,the only thing you can do is like the last poster said,have a round robin tournament

In 1973, there was the possibility of a five-way tie for the NL East Division title. Though the major league rules only accounted for up to a four-way tie, in consultation with the MLBPA the projected way a five-way tie was going to be dealt with was as follows:

Tue Oct 2: PIT at NYN, MON at SLN
Wed Oct 3: CHN at MON/SLN
Thu Oct 4: PIT/NYN at CHN/MON/SLN

In other words, MON, SLN, and CHN would play a conventional three-way tiebreaker while PIT and NYN played a conventional two-way tiebreaker. The winners of each of these then meet in another conventional two-way tiebreaker.

In 2003, there was the distant chance of a five-way tie. The projected method there was slightly different: the team with the best head-to-head record among the tied teams would get a bye while the remaining four teams would play two conventional two-way tiebreakers. The two winning teams would then join the bye team in a conventional three-way tiebreaker.

Cryomaniac · 10-21-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

In 1973, there was the possibility of a five-way tie for the NL East Division title. Though the major league rules only accounted for up to a four-way tie, in consultation with the MLBPA the projected way a five-way tie was going to be dealt with was as follows:

Tue Oct 2: PIT at NYN, MON at SLN
Wed Oct 3: CHN at MON/SLN
Thu Oct 4: PIT/NYN at CHN/MON/SLN

In other words, MON, SLN, and CHN would play a conventional three-way tiebreaker while PIT and NYN played a conventional two-way tiebreaker. The winners of each of these then meet in another conventional two-way tiebreaker.

In 2003, there was the distant chance of a five-way tie. The projected method there was slightly different: the team with the best head-to-head record among the tied teams would get a bye while the remaining four teams would play two conventional two-way tiebreakers. The two winning teams would then join the bye team in a conventional three-way tiebreaker.

To be honest, a round robin makes more sense than that.

Le Grande Orange · 10-21-2008, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

To be honest, a round robin makes more sense than that.

Round-robins are only used when single-elimination is off the table. Since adopting divisional play in 1969, MLB has opted for single-elimination as the way to settle ties. The five-way tiebreaking mentioned use single-elimation (since it takes less time than any sort of round-robin or double-elimination system).

Back when double-elimination was used (that is, it took two losses to eliminate a team from the tiebreaker), a two-way tie was resolved with a best-of-three series. A three-way tie involved a round-robin system that required a team to lose twice before it was eliminated. This meant that a total of either four or five games were needed to resolve a three-way tie.

theasfl · 10-25-2008, 03:34 PM

when in schedule doubt, consult LGO.

Though I enjoyed the method used and don't have a problem with round-robins.

Curtis · 10-26-2008, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

In 2003, there was the distant chance of a five-way tie. The projected method there was slightly different: the team with the best head-to-head record among the tied teams would get a bye while the remaining four teams would play two conventional two-way tiebreakers. The two winning teams would then join the bye team in a conventional three-way tiebreaker.

I prefer this method.

Alternatively, you could have the two teams with the worst head-to-head records play each other one game with the winner joining the other three in a standard four-way tie breaker.

Simon_Nesbit · 10-26-2008, 07:32 PM

Ah....memories of my 195!! game series.

(20 team, 2x10 divisions 180 game pefectly balanced, no inter-league play, one round of finals). Season 3 results.

International League -
Sydney 93-87
Rome 93-87
London 93-87
Paris 93-87
Moscow 93-87
Beijing 93-87
Tokyo 93-87
Johannesburg 93-87
Calcutta 86-94
Berlin 80-100

US League
Washington 146-34
Toronto 94-86
...

So after 180 games I only managed to eliminate 2 teams!!! I (Sydney) won the last seven games, moving from 8th to equal 1st.

Played 1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5 in a three game series.
Winners in five game series.
Winners in a seven game series.

We made it through, only to be swept by New York in the World Series. (International League never won the WS in five seasons before I lost the game).

10-21-2008, 05:39 AM	#1
Nzsftbl Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 265	5 way tie.... Wasn't sure where to put this, here or the dynasty reports... I have 5 leagues of 20 teams 1 league 1 division, with promotion and relegation; 3 go up, 3 go down. The 3rd team going up is decided in similar fashion as in English soccer: 3rd plays 6th, 4th plays 5th, winners play each other, winner goes up. For this game, all 3 series are 7 game series, so the winner of the playoff is the champion of the league (so to speak; the actual name is "Playoff Final Champion") After a 162 game season, standings looked like this: 1st 101 wins 2nd 93 wins 3rd 90 wins 4th 87 wins 5th 87 wins 6th 87 wins 7th 87 wins 8th 87 wins essentially, a 5 way tie for the last 3 playoff spots. I've learned to play out any game on the last day of the season, so the day wouldn't have finished and I could add "tie-breaking games" as regular season games. Also, I like that playoff spots and other such things are decided on the field, not on paper. So...what I had is that everyone played 2 games, spread over 3 days. 1 team had won twice, 1 team had lost twice. So 4th place had 89 wins, 8th place had 87 wins and was eliminated. The other 3 teams had won once and lost once, which left a virtual tie for 5th, 6th, and 7th place. Instead of having those teams play each other again, I added a game between the teams that hadn't played each other yet; that gave me the following standings, 4th through 8th 4th 89-75 5th 89-76 6th 88-76 7th 88-77 8th 87-77 So...even if the game would be able to handle regular ties between 2 or 3 teams, this would be a bit too much to ask for

10-21-2008, 09:27 AM	#2
Cryomaniac Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hucknall, Notts, UK Posts: 4,902	The game doesn't handle 3 way ties how it's done in real life, so there's not really any hope for 5 way ties. I prefer a round robin style of tie-breaking, where everyone plays everyone (ok in this instance that is 4 extra games...). __________________

10-21-2008, 11:30 AM	#3
PhillieFever Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Elk Twp. NJ Posts: 6,763	Unfortunately,baseball dosen't lend itself to that sort of system very well,the only thing you can do is like the last poster said,have a round robin tournament __________________ We're All Wednesday Aren't We? WAWAW

10-25-2008, 03:34 PM	#8
theasfl Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Coral Springs, FL or Orlando, FL (UCF) Posts: 7,988	when in schedule doubt, consult LGO. Though I enjoyed the method used and don't have a problem with round-robins. __________________ All-Sports Fantasy League The ASFL 22 different games, 9 sports. Please check out the website (www.theasfl.com/asfl2/). The league is free- if you're interested please fill out the signup form and/or email the commissioner. Miami Talons (ABL): 2004, 2005 & 2008 Champs

10-21-2008, 01:54 PM	#4
JoseRijo Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 100	I say make each tied team play 2 regular season games. Give each team a letter A B C D and E, no point in seeding, assume they are all equal. Team A plays at home vs Team B and on the road vs Team E Team B plays at home vs Team C and on the road vs Team A Team C plays at home vs Team D and on the road vs Team B Team D plays at home vs Team E and on the road vs Team C Team E plays at home vs Team A and on the road vs Team D Chances are this will sort it all out for you. If not, make the next tie breaker automatic, like Head to Head record versus the other 4 teams in the pool over the regular season.

10-26-2008, 07:32 PM	#10
Simon_Nesbit Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 260	Ah....memories of my 195!! game series. (20 team, 2x10 divisions 180 game pefectly balanced, no inter-league play, one round of finals). Season 3 results. International League - Sydney 93-87 Rome 93-87 London 93-87 Paris 93-87 Moscow 93-87 Beijing 93-87 Tokyo 93-87 Johannesburg 93-87 Calcutta 86-94 Berlin 80-100 US League Washington 146-34 Toronto 94-86 ... So after 180 games I only managed to eliminate 2 teams!!! I (Sydney) won the last seven games, moving from 8th to equal 1st. Played 1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5 in a three game series. Winners in five game series. Winners in a seven game series. We made it through, only to be swept by New York in the World Series. (International League never won the WS in five seasons before I lost the game).