Trading: House Rules and Settings

[Joe Shlabotnick]

Wondering if people can talk about the settings (Game Options) and "house rules" they use for trading with the AI, and just as importantly, why you use those rules.

I ask because I have a tendency to start a league, then become obsessed with trying to make great trades and do nothing else.

I'm looking for advice for a beginner who want to experience the joy of building a winning team, but without feeling like I'm ripping off the AI. Realism, in other words. I'm NOT looking for advice on how to make trading extremely difficult, because I still don't know what the heck I'm doing.

[akw4572]

I put the trading AI on favor prospects, and hard. And never shop a player. I also cannot initiate a trade.

[Joe Shlabotnick]

Originally Posted by akw4572

I put the trading AI on favor prospects, and hard. And never shop a player. I also cannot initiate a trade.

Why "favor prospects"?

Why hard?

Why do you never shop a player or initiate a trade?

If the answer to any of the above is "because otherwise it is too easy to win all the time," then think back to when you had been playing OOTP for about a week, and tell me if you think it would have been too easy back then, when you weren't really sure what the heck you were doing. For example, I'm trying to GM without really understanding the financial model or the bigger financial picture ... how much $$ I have and when I might run out, and what will happen if I do and ... and .... and..

[akw4572]

Well, for me, to beat the AI, usually means to dump bad contracts for prospects. These settings really put a damper on that. It makes me think twice about signing a guy to a long term deal, because I may very well end up stuck with him in the last couple years of a bad contract.

[edm]

I always limit my deals to 1-for-1 trades. Also, I try to limit the number of trades I can make in a single year to three or four.

[bababui]

Since prospect development is by no means a sure thing, I dont think trading vets for prospects is really that big of a ripoff.

[ike121212]

Here's a few things I avoid, because it makes things too easy:

Historical amateur drafts...just too easy since I can see lifetime stats. You already have a big advantage in historical leagues, drafting real life rookies is fun, but gets out of control fast.

Enabling trading draft picks, then grabbing low first rounders using 'make this work now'.

Signing Free Agents, then dealing them for picks/prospects in the same season.

I will definitely set the AI to favor prospects, hopefully that cuts down on the classic: declining 35 year old star for Greg Maddux-type trades.

[Honolulu Blue]

My usual settings & rules:

* Difficulty - hard, favor prospects
* Can accept any AI-suggested trade as is, without limits
* Can only make one human-suggested trade (including shop player and modified AI trades) in each of the following periods:

a) April 1 - June 30
b) July 1-31
c) End of season - Winter Meeting
d) Winter Meeting
e) Post Winter Meeting - April 1

* No trading drafted players for 1 year after they're drafted

[OldFatGuy]

A common theme in these suggestions seem to be limiting/disallowing the "shop player" option. Am I doing something wrong?? When I have my settings set to "Very Hard" and either neutral or favor prospects, the suggestions I get back from "Shop Player" don't seem like rip-offs to me. At least, they usually seem like ripoffs TO me.

What is the "cheat" in shop player?? Am I missing a step??? (One thing I DON'T do is change the offer I get in shop player)

[PhillieFever]

I'm also fairly new to the game but I have my settings set at "favor prospects" and hard for no other reason than I don't want to be able to rob the AI.I play historical and I also have rookies enter the league with the team they started out with(for historical accuracy)I find these settings to be pretty good for me,the trades I have made have been pretty tough negotiations where I've given up more than I thought I would.I do not shop players either only because I like to scout players myself before I trade for them.if you want,I could give you examples of the trades I've made.

[dsvitak]

Here are some of my thoughts.

It is WAY too easy to trade a MR, with 1*/4****, for a third rounder. Trivial.

Package the third rounder with a scrub outfielder, and BOOM! First rounder.

Wait until the end of July, and swap ANOTHER decent MR, with YOUR first rounder, for the first rounder of the dead worst team in the league.

This will get ya the top player in the expansion draft...and works like a champ.

In my eight player league, I won the World Series, and then took over the worst team available, a .303 winning percentage the year before.

Now, I have four of the first five picks, and loaded up on three EXCELLENT starters. I predict another World Series, in 2-3 years.

I think the fun in this game is building a winning franchise, and as such, I work within the constraints of the game. If we couldn't trade players for draft picks, they why have that functionality?

Just by setting trade difficulty UP to the hardest level will assist the AI in trading. This is a sufficient handicap for me...it is HARD to get decent players, unless you do a 3 or 4 for 1.

[deadringer]

I set trading to hard and favor prospects for settings. For trades it's real simple for me. I use the devil's advocate system. When I look at a trade either one I'm offering or one from the AI I go to the other team and really look over their entire organization, place in the standings, etc and then I ask myself if the trade makes sense if I was GMing the other team, not just if it's a fair deal. Sometimes you'll see the AI do things that don't really make sense even if the trades themselves aren't really unfair.

[voxpoptart]

I don't have any precise house rules like those discussed above -- indeed, I'm perfectly happy to shop players and initiate trades. Instead I find it better to use some over-arching principles:

1) Never make a trade that I don't think is a good trade for the other GM. Often I will make trades that my own manager isn't sure of: my analytical skills are better than the AI's, and I resist the temptation to take extra advantage.

2) Actively intervene to help AI teams improve themselves: if a good team is benching one of its most effective players, or allowing a giant hole in its lineup, or refusing to spend its large surplus of money, I'll jump into that team's shoes and see if I can do something clever (a good trade, a signing) to fix its problems.

3) Similarly, if I see a good player on waivers, I will either step into the shoes of the waiving team and Shop that player -- allowing it to trade instead of lose the player -- or, if for some reason I find the waiver decision believable, I'll nonetheless pass up the chance to claim the player for myself.

4) Once my team is a champion with a strong farm system and/or lots of money, I leave it and hire myself on to a much weaker team.

5) Also, since i run two teams at a time - one per sub-league - I do not allow them to trade with each other, and as much as possible I don't let the knowledge from one team's scouts affect the other team's draft decisions. (This has meant, for the last two drafts, having one of my teams make high-ranking choices that my other team would have told them were dumb, just because Nazca's two best scouts had simultaneous delusions. So it goes.)

*****
In my current league, my original teams included Guopore, which I left after three years, two straight pennants, and a world championship - they now have won their division six straight years, because of the strong position I left them in. They also included Hudiksvall, who I left after three pennants and two world championships in five years, and have won two more division titles and one more world series in the two years since. My post-Guopore team, Trujillo, went immediately from 73 wins to 99, won two straight pennants and a world title with me, and I left it after just two years; it won the next division title as well, and only lost last year when I took their division rival Nazca from 67 wins to 100.

In other words, my biggest house rule is that I make my own opponents good. Then I beat them anyway.

[deadringer]

voxpoptart, you reminded me of my most important house rule. I don't allow myself to ever claim a player who's overall potential is over 49 (20-80 scale). The AI makes the most insane waiver moves. I still see some silly trades and questionable signings but the guys that are even put on the waiver wire are completely self destructive.

I wish it was hard coded that a player with high overall potential ratings wouldn't ever be waived by the AI but then you'd have to somehow find a way to stop them from calling up those guys too early in the first place.

I'm sure there are some real world examples of real life teams losing blue chip prospects to waiver claims but it happen all the time in OOTP.

[toxicavenger74]

Myhouse rules are:

Overall, during trades I attempt to essentially GM both sides and try to be fair. However, since I am GMing one team and will have some bias here is what I do to even furthurmore assure fairness. Also, I play with potential ratings only so I have no idea what their actual rating is. I use all the trade features available and will initiate trades, also I use the waiver wire. I play with fictional rosters.

1.I look at the other teams needs and attempt to provide a player that meets those needs. Also, the trade has to make real world sense. So, a team in the playoff hunt would not normally trade away a star player for prospects. So, any trade for a star player has to be with a team that is considered out of the playoff picture. This is especially difficult with wildcard teams because almost 3/4 of the teams are with in shot of the playoffs.
2. I will bump up the potential for the players that I trade away. If they are a Veteran then I will bump up their actual ratings slightly.
3. If there is a huge salary difference I will potentially pay for part of their salary.
4. Once the deal is finalized I will provide another average player potentially if I have any lingering issue with fairness. Again, #2 applies here also.
5. Trading is off except for Winter meetings and the month of July. This will naturally curtail the ability to initiate too many trades in a way that is not realistic.
6. I typically will not do more than one trade in any calendar year. Usually 1 during July and maybe 1 during the winter meetings. I don't put any limitations on myself as I can't put any numeric limitations on the AI except for either all on or all off.
7. Trading is on very low, very hard, nuetral durng July and favor prospects during Winter meetings.

I don't do all of these each time but I will always do 1,2,5, 6 and 7.

[SittingDuck]

Here's an interesting one I've come up with today. It stems from the ability to get top prospects and younger players (22-23 yo). Let me also state here this has NO bearing for a recalc league. This can only be fictional or non-recalc historical. So here goes:

1) Trading = Very Hard
2) Favor Prospects

AI Evaluation is:
Ratings = 50
Current Stats = 25
Last Year's Stats = 15
Two Years ago = 10

(this because I recognize ratings are pretty powerful to prevent 39-40 yo's from getting big contracts)

OK, so the rule -->

1) When targeting a young player (under 26 yo), I must compensate with a player who's age is within 5 years of said target player and has similar actual or potential values (more in a bit on this). I use stars so as not to nitpick (stars & rated for all players, not positions only).

2) Opposing GM must feel it is a good trade - not just fair.

3) I attempt to meet the team's stated needs.



Alright, more on this actual/potential values thing. The target player's highest talent rating (actual or potential) must be met by one of the ratings of an offered player. I am currently considering more restrictions on an older player being offered, because they could have a high potential rating but their actual rating could indicate they are in decline.

So as an example, let me post a trade I am considering. It's 1962 and I'm the Orioles. I am targeting that young phenom from Boston - YAZ (too late, you damn Boston fans - you can't save him now!!!)

Well, Yaz at 22 has four stars (both actual and potential). Remember this is not recalc, so that only means but so much. Boston needs a 1B and some rotation help. I only have a handful of players with 4-star talent. Boog?? Get outta here! So how about 1B Jim Gentile (27 & 4.5 stars) and SP Steve Barber (24 & 4 stars). Well, the Boston GM (coaching off or on) loves that trade a lot. So that satisfies me. I could have shipped Gentile and a handful of lesser players and gotten the 'good' go-ahead sign, but I went this way.

Now, let's say Yaz was a 5-star potential player. I couldn't get him because my only 5-star player is RP Dick Hall, and he's 31 yo. Too old. Plus you could look at that RP issue. So let me add in here that a RP offered has to be 0.5 stars higher than the target. Deeper and deeper it goes.... The really interesting thing is that it can start to deplete your true talent level PRONTO. There are only so many of these types of trades you can pull off, so you better make good trades or you will soon be in deep doodoo.

So this method can somewhat guarantee the AI team gets some level of compensatory talent out of a trade. If it was a recalc league, that would still be a rip-off trade for Yaz, but it's not and who knows - Yaz could turn out to be a real stinker.

Just like that Babe feller....

[Long_Long_Name]

I don't like house rules. Maybe that's why I don't like playing solo.

[dagmar]

Originally Posted by SittingDuck

AI Evaluation is:
Ratings = 50
Current Stats = 25
Last Year's Stats = 15
Two Years ago = 10

(this because I recognize ratings are pretty powerful to prevent 39-40 yo's from getting big contracts)

About AI Evaluations. Does anyone change around the AI Evaluation ratings based on the what month it is in the season?

For example:
From jan - april you'd want:
ratings: 50
current stats: 0
last year's stats: 30
2 years ago: 20

Cause from Jan - April, there really isn't any ratings to base anything from in the current year.

may:
ratings: 50
current stats: 5
last year's stats: 30
2 years ago: 15

now you see some of the stats meaning something, but only 5 percent. Goes up every month..

skip to september-dec:
ratings: 50
current stats: 25
last year's stats: 25
2 years ago: 0

september - dec you see the current stats matter as much as the last year's, etc.

Anyone do that? Or is it something that's not necessary in the new engine to shift the AI evaluation rating around? I have been doing this since version 6 (there was a post back then detailing this. I can't find it anymore though).

Oh yah, in my league I don't have sky high contracts in the 30mil range (like I see a lot of people complaining about). The range of the top 30 (or was it TOP 20?) contracts is 23m to 15m. league average player salary is at 2.8m. It's just below the MLB average of 3.something m.

[SittingDuck]

Man, that is smart. I posted something about this in the historicals section about making initial contracts in a full history historical league. It is along these lines, but you're absolutely right - especially in the Jan-Apr months you have to alter the values because the resigning is way too easy.

Good call! Here's how I'm going to run it:

Jan -> Apr31
55-0-30-15

May
55-5-30-10

June
55-10-30-5

July
55-15-25-5

August
55-20-20-5

Sept -> End of Playoffs
55-25-20-0

Start of Offseason -> Dec31
55-30-15-0

[OldFatGuy]

Originally Posted by dagmar

I have been doing this since version 6 (there was a post back then detailing this.

Since version 6? I could have sworn a logged issue in OOTP2007 and OOTP8 was the fact the changes made here didn't "stick". Meaning, they only lasted one day or one session or something. I'll go back and try to find that thread again.

If this does work in 8, I want to start using it right away, I just never did after I read that thread.