An official save?

[Vinny P.]

Just a quick question, before I forget and fall asleep.

My team was up 4 - 0 in the top of the 8th. Binghamton (my opponent) smacked a double off my starting pitcher. Considering his Endurance rating was only an 80 out of 100, and he already had 105 pitches, I decided to bring my closer in. Next guy up hits a single, the runner stays at third. Then there's a line drive to the 3rd baseman. Then a double play, ending teh inning at 4-0. I keep my closer in for the 9th (endurance: 32/100, and the next day off, so ya know...)

Now, since there was a runner in scoring position in a realtively close game, should'nt he have a save? I know the rule says if another pitcher comes in with 3 runs or less....still....just wanted to be more clear on that

[OldFatGuy]

Originally Posted by Nihilianth

Just a quick question, before I forget and fall asleep.

My team was up 4 - 0 in the top of the 8th. Binghamton (my opponent) smacked a double off my starting pitcher. Considering his Endurance rating was only an 80 out of 100, and he already had 105 pitches, I decided to bring my closer in. Next guy up hits a single, the runner stays at third. Then there's a line drive to the 3rd baseman. Then a double play, ending teh inning at 4-0. I keep my closer in for the 9th (endurance: 32/100, and the next day off, so ya know...)

Now, since there was a runner in scoring position in a realtively close game, should'nt he have a save? I know the rule says if another pitcher comes in with 3 runs or less....still....just wanted to be more clear on that

No, not a save situation. In order for it to be a save situation, the tying run would've had to be on deck, and in a 4-0 lead and only one baserunner, it isn't. One more baserunner and it would've been a save situation.

[Tony M]

Had there been more than one runner on base at the point he came in, he would have got the save.

The official definition is something like a lead of 3 or with the tying or winning run on deck or in the hole.

The in the hole batter in your example could have got the game to 4-3 at best.

[Tony M]

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

No, not a save situation. In order for it to be a save situation, the tying run would've had to be on deck, and in a 4-0 lead and only one baserunner, it isn't. One more baserunner and it would've been a save situation.

Is it on deck for the tying? D'oh, I think it may be. I know Pap got a save with a 5-0 lead this season, but the bases must have been loaded, thus putting the tying run at on deck.

My bad...

[Vinny P.]

Just a quick question, before I forget and fall asleep.

My team was up 4 - 0 in the top of the 8th. Binghamton (my opponent) smacked a double off my starting pitcher. Considering his Endurance rating was only an 80 out of 100, and he already had 105 pitches, I decided to bring my closer in. Next guy up hits a single, the runner stays at third. Then there's a line drive to the 3rd baseman. Then a double play, ending teh inning at 4-0. I keep my closer in for the 9th (endurance: 32/100, and the next day off, so ya know...)

Now, since there was a runner in scoring position in a realtively close game, should'nt he have a save? I know the rule says if another pitcher comes in with 3 runs or less....still....just wanted to be more clear on that

In order for it to be a save situation, the tying run would've had to be on deck, and in a 4-0 lead and only one baserunne

There were 4 batters total, well, the guy on deck was the 4th. Guy hits a double, so he's on second. #2 guy comes up, hits a SINGLE, but the runner on second doesn't bother trying for the run, and stays at 3rd. Batter number 3 lines out, batter number 4 doubles up.

Now if we count how many there were for the last 2 batters:

#1 at 3rd
#2 at 1st
#3 up at bat
and #4 tying run) on deck......

should = save?

Edit: sorry, hit the edit button at top instead of the quote butto1

[CecilCooper]

The problem is when he entered the game...

He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat, or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batsmen he faces); or



Since he was the one that created the tying run being on deck it's not a save opp.

[Vinny P.]

oh oh oh got ya. The starter gave up 1 hit, so I bring in the closer being up 4-0, with 1 guy on second. ok, i see, thanks.

[wildcat000]

That, or if the closer/pitcher pitches 3+ innings, no matter how many runs you're up by, as long as he finishes the game.

[ike121212]

1) enter the game with the tying or winning run on base, at bat, or on deck
2) start an inning with a 3 run lead or less
3) pitch the final 3+ innings

AND

not be credited with the win (unusual, but it can happen)

[t_wil1]

I think its because the batter in the hole.

For instance, a person comes in the the ninth inning with a three run lead because three batters can tie the game with solo shots. the third person is in the hole.

If a closer comes in with one person on base and 4-0 lead.... the person in the hole would be the fourth run. making it a save situation.

I remember someone saying it on a TV and thats how I remember it. A person can get a save when the tying run is in the hole.

[OldFatGuy]

Originally Posted by ike121212

1) enter the game with the tying or winning run on base, at bat, or on deck
2) start an inning with a 3 run lead or less
3) pitch the final 3+ innings

AND

not be credited with the win (unusual, but it can happen)

Don't know if you remember it or not, but the rule labelled number 3 above led to a very unusual save in that 30-3 Texas vs Baltimore nailbiter last year. 1 of 3 career saves for Wes Littleton.

August 22, 2007 Texas Rangers at Baltimore Orioles Box Score and Play by Play - Baseball-Reference.com

[bwburke94]

The official rule states a pitcher can get a save:

1) Come in with a lead of 3 runs or less and pitch at least one inning;
2) Come in with the tying run on deck, on base, or at the plate
3) Pitch at least 3 effective innings* (This is how Littleton got the save)

*"Effective" means anything Bud Selig wants it to mean.

[Sdpm100]

Originally Posted by bwburke94

The official rule states a pitcher can get a save:

1) Come in with a lead of 3 runs or less and pitch at least one inning;
2) Come in with the tying run on deck, on base, or at the plate
3) Pitch at least 3 effective innings* (This is how Littleton got the save)

*"Effective" means anything Bud Selig wants it to mean.

The effective clause was removed, I believe, before last season.

[OldFatGuy]

Originally Posted by Sdpm100

The effective clause was removed, I believe, before last season.

Yes, it was removed, and it was before last season, but exactly when before last season I can't recall.

EDIT: I finally found it. I had searched for this about a million times on the MLB.COM site and could never find it. Finally, I did a google search, and there it was. Yep, it was right before the 2007 season. LOL, just in time for Littleton to get the save in the 30-3 game. Well, actually, he would've gotten it before the rule change, because he did pitch effectively. But, had he given up 20 runs to make it a 30-23 game, he still would've gotten the save. LOL

http://mlb.mlb.com/pressbox/download...ges_021607.pdf

[texasrangers13]

The Rangers also have another bizarre save, and rare win. Joaquin Benoit has a 7 inning save. It was a game in I believe 2003 maybe 2004, the starter was injured in the second, thus leaving the game with a lead after 2 IP. Benoit threw the next 7 out of the pen. Since the starter left because of injury he was credited with the win (despite not pitching 5 innings) and Benoit received the save for pitching 7 innings.

[Vinny P.]

Ok, any of you wierd research type guys, here's a question for the ages.

In a national league game (with no DH rule) and the away team goes around the order in the 1st inning, thus giving the starting pitcher an actual start and the lead. But let's say he gets injured while rounding the bases. The bottom of the 1st comes around, and they have to have a guy throw out of the pen. The away team shuts out the Home team, picking up the win. Now, who gets the credit for the win, the starting pitcher, who didnt even so much as throw a pitch, or the guy who was brought in?

And, another part of that question. Does the starting pitcher have to pitch at least 1/3 of an inning in order to qualify for a win while his team is up for that 1/3 inning?

I know, it's a hypothetical question, and would be incredily rare if it has ever happened at all. But I was just curious lol

[Solonor]

Originally Posted by Nihilianth

Ok, any of you wierd research type guys, here's a question for the ages.

In a national league game (with no DH rule) and the away team goes around the order in the 1st inning, thus giving the starting pitcher an actual start and the lead. But let's say he gets injured while rounding the bases. The bottom of the 1st comes around, and they have to have a guy throw out of the pen. The away team shuts out the Home team, picking up the win. Now, who gets the credit for the win, the starting pitcher, who didnt even so much as throw a pitch, or the guy who was brought in?

And, another part of that question. Does the starting pitcher have to pitch at least 1/3 of an inning in order to qualify for a win while his team is up for that 1/3 inning?

I know, it's a hypothetical question, and would be incredily rare if it has ever happened at all. But I was just curious lol

The reliever gets the win (assuming he was the only reliever and/or was judged by the official scorer to be the most effective). A starter must go 5 innings, period. If he goes 4 innings and gets 2 outs and gets replaced, he does not get the win.

[Erich Ingram]

Originally Posted by texasrangers13

The Rangers also have another bizarre save, and rare win. Joaquin Benoit has a 7 inning save. It was a game in I believe 2003 maybe 2004, the starter was injured in the second, thus leaving the game with a lead after 2 IP. Benoit threw the next 7 out of the pen. Since the starter left because of injury he was credited with the win (despite not pitching 5 innings) and Benoit received the save for pitching 7 innings.

Can you find the box score for that one, because I don't think an injury matters when deciding the winner of the game. Pitching only two innings I don't think he woudl get credited for it. Would be great to see that though as it is something I have never seen before.

[texasrangers13]

Gotta take that back, I didn't realize the beginning (the starter was ejected after 2 pitches). CNNSI.com - Baseball - After losing no-hitter, Benoit gets bizarre save - Wednesday September 04, 2002 03:38 AM

[Solonor]

Originally Posted by texasrangers13

Gotta take that back, I didn't realize the beginning (the starter was ejected after 2 pitches). CNNSI.com - Baseball - After losing no-hitter, Benoit gets bizarre save - Wednesday September 04, 2002 03:38 AM

In that one, they could have easily given Benoit the win instead of a save, but Van Poppel, the guy who finished the inning after the starter got ejected and pitched the 2nd, got the win.