My Annual "Why only 5 levels of minors" Thread

KySteveH · 06-20-2008, 10:48 PM

Fictional Players: This will probably not interest you. Skip it, or add value, but I ask that you not hijack it.

So, I thought I understood that this year's game would have the feature to designate more than 5 levels of minor leagues. It doesn't seem to, unless I have missed it. I see the same ones as last year, which means we can't separate the two levels of "A" ball, or the two levels of "rookie" ball that are present IRL.

Has anyone looked at this, and is there a way to do it that I am not seeing?

Garrett67 · 06-20-2008, 10:52 PM

I see 2 levels of A and 4 levels of rookie, but yes its 5 levels (AAA, AA, A, S-A x2 and 4 rookies)...... unless I'm misunderstanding you.
(Via 'select league' drop down on upper right of the screen.)

KySteveH · 06-20-2008, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garrett67

I see 2 levels of A and 4 levels of rookie, but yes its 5 levels (AAA, AA, A, S-A x2 and 4 rookies)...... unless I'm misunderstanding you.
(Via 'select league' drop down on upper right of the screen.)

Well, there are definitely only 5 levels. Each level has multiple leagues, and I appreciate that, but they are all considered to be at the same level within that classification.

As an example, IRL, the California, Carolina, and Florida State Leagues are one step above the Midwest and Sally Leagues. That's why players typically progress from one to the other. You probably know that each major league has one team at each of the two levels. So, as an example, the Reds typically have 2nd year players in Dayton, which is in the Midwest League, and is classified as "A" or "Low-A". Player that do well will be called up to the next level, Sarasota, which is in the Florida State League. The FSL is classified as "Advanced-A", or "High-A"

In contrast, in OOTP, players seem to be randomly assigned to one of the two "A" farm clubs, and sit there until they are ready for "AA" baseball. If there was a way to indicate that one of the two teams was in a more advanced league, so that players would go there only after mastering the less advanced league, I would be very happy.

RedSoxFaithful · 06-20-2008, 11:14 PM

This has bothered me for a while as well... Hope it's fixed in a future patch, I guess.

Swimmer · 06-20-2008, 11:22 PM

I also have an annual thread on this topic, although I usually post mine later, when the feature requests for the next version start coming up. Class D ball was a huge part of the baseball landscape pre-WWII, and I wish I could sim it.

Like you, I thought I had understood that we would have more minor league levels in this game.

Erik W. · 06-20-2008, 11:25 PM

Unless there's a limit that I'm not aware of, you can add more levels of minors than what's in the quick starts.

KySteveH · 06-20-2008, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik W.

Unless there's a limit that I'm not aware of, you can add more levels of minors than what's in the quick starts.

I would love it if that was true, but I don't see how. Can you explain how to do it?

Erik W. · 06-20-2008, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KySteveH

I would love it if that was true, but I don't see how. Can you explain how to do it?

The quickest way is to go to "Game Setup," then the "League Setup" tab. At the bottom (you may have to select your major league on the left first) is a button labeled "add minor league."

Add the one closest to the level you want to set up, such as "Single A," et voila, you have a new minor league level.

Then you can change the names and settings to whatever you want.

Edit: I'm sure it works, too, because I just did it in mid-season of my current game to make sure I wasn't misleading you. I added a new level of rookie ball easy as pie. Luckily I was able to delete it just as easily so I don't have to force-crash my game.

rudel.dietrich · 06-20-2008, 11:56 PM

You can also tinker with the MLEs for each level of minors and the AI will (for the most part) promote and demote players correctly between the various levels

I find the multiple levels of Rookie and A ball to be a bit too redunant for my liking so I usually just use 3 or 4 levels of minors

Erik W. · 06-21-2008, 12:01 AM

I use the default 5 for real roster games, but 3 max in fictionals and historicals. 5 seems like overkill in a game.

KySteveH · 06-21-2008, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik W.

The quickest way is to go to "Game Setup," then the "League Setup" tab. At the bottom (you may have to select your major league on the left first) is a button labeled "add minor league."

Add the one closest to the level you want to set up, such as "Single A," et voila, you have a new minor league level.

Then you can change the names and settings to whatever you want.

Edit: I'm sure it works, too, because I just did it in mid-season of my current game to make sure I wasn't misleading you. I added a new level of rookie ball easy as pie. Luckily I was able to delete it just as easily so I don't have to force-crash my game.

I'm not seeing this...I do what you said, and I get exactly 5 options. I cannot choose to add a 6th, which is what I want. I know I can add a new league, of course. But that league can only be one of the 5 pre-defined "classifications".

Oh well, maybe next year. (Again)

KySteveH · 06-21-2008, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

You can also tinker with the MLEs for each level of minors and the AI will (for the most part) promote and demote players correctly between the various levels

I find the multiple levels of Rookie and A ball to be a bit too redunant for my liking so I usually just use 3 or 4 levels of minors

Hey, now this might work...whe you say MLEs, are you talking about the Player creation modifiers on the "strategy" page in setup?

Erik W. · 06-21-2008, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KySteveH

I'm not seeing this...I do what you said, and I get exactly 5 options. I cannot choose to add a 6th, which is what I want. I know I can add a new league, of course. But that league can only be one of the 5 pre-defined "classifications".

Oh well, maybe next year. (Again)

Yes, you have 5 options. Hit the one that's the right level that you want to add.

If you choose "Triple A" then you will have another triple A league added to the ones you already have. Etc.

rudel.dietrich · 06-21-2008, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KySteveH

Hey, now this might work...whe you say MLEs, are you talking about the Player creation modifiers on the "strategy" page in setup?

Im not sure, im still using OOTP 2007

I know you set your major leagues to 1.00
AAA to .75
AA to .60
etc
etc

You can have Rookie ball be .30 and short Season A ball be .35 and the AI will call up players out of Rookie ball and place them in A ball and then up and up the chain as they grow into ML players

All the numbers I used are of course examples

KySteveH · 06-21-2008, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik W.

Yes, you have 5 options. Hit the one that's the right level that you want to add.

If you choose "Triple A" then you will have another triple A league added to the ones you already have. Etc.

Hmmm...I guess this is why this feature keeps getting left out.

I don;t know how else to explain this. I want to add a league having a different level than the 5 that are seen in the menu. I don't care what it is called, I just want the game to see that it is unique from the other 5 league levels. For example, I want to have a league for players that are a litttle better than Short Season A, but not quite good enough for what OOTP just calls "A". I want 6-steps in the progression, rather than 5. I don't want more leagues, I want more differentiation between the leagues. Does that make sense?

KySteveH · 06-21-2008, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

Im not sure, im still using OOTP 2007

I know you set your major leagues to 1.00
AAA to .75
AA to .60
etc
etc

You can have Rookie ball be .30 and short Season A ball be .35 and the AI will call up players out of Rookie ball and place them in A ball and then up and up the chain as they grow into ML players

All the numbers I used are of course examples

Yeah, I think I see it. I think theat section is called "PCMs", not "MLEs", but same difference. I'll try it and give it a shot.

Thanks!

OldFatGuy · 06-21-2008, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KySteveH

Yeah, I think I see it. I think theat section is called "PCMs", not "MLEs", but same difference. I'll try it and give it a shot.

Thanks!

Its the Sabermetric PCM's to be precise. These are set in league options of the minor league. For example, MLB has PCM's set at 1.00.

AAA will have Sabermetric PCM's at .80 (or something, just making this up)
AA at .60
A at .40
R at .20

Then you could create another A level but set it at .5, right between A and AA in this example. I was just never aware that the AI would treat it correctly.

KySteveH · 06-21-2008, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

Its the Sabermetric PCM's to be precise. These are set in league options of the minor league. For example, MLB has PCM's set at 1.00.

AAA will have Sabermetric PCM's at .80 (or something, just making this up)
AA at .60
A at .40
R at .20

Then you could create another A level but set it at .5, right between A and AA in this example. I was just never aware that the AI would treat it correctly.

Yup, I'm testing it now!

Le Grande Orange · 06-21-2008, 01:10 AM

What KySteveH is getting at is that, in real life, there are seven different minor league classification levels:

AAA
AA
A-Advanced (a.k.a. "High A")
A (a.k.a. "Low A")
A-Short Season
Rookie Advanced
Rookie

OOTP, for its part, only recreates five minor league classification levels as it combines the two Rookie levels into one and combines the two full-season A levels into one. The real minor leagues have been divided into seven classification levels since at least 1990.

The Rookie Advanced and Rookie distinction is important because Rookie leagues are "complex" leagues, that is, they play their games at the spring training complexes of their major league parent clubs or other similar training sites. Such teams do not represent city/towns as do Rookie Advanced and higher level clubs, and no admission price is charged to attend Rookie league games. The four Rookie leagues (Arizona, Gulf Coast, Dominican Summer, and Venezuelan Summer) can be thought of as being instructional leagues rather that traditional, for-profit leagues.

Rookie level teams are all owned and operated entirely by their major league parent clubs who pay for all the costs associated with running these leagues. Also, the Professional Baseball Agreement (PBA) explicitly excludes Rookie class leagues from the number of minor league clubs the majors are obligated to support via player development contracts (PDCs). MLB is only required to support the 160 minor league teams which exist from AAA down to Rookie Advanced; this means the majors can do whatever they want with the four Rookie leagues (e.g. expand and contract the leagues however they wish).

spark240 · 06-21-2008, 01:14 AM

In my most-developed (longest running, most leagues) world in the last version, I changed those minor league PCMs for every league, on the theory that no two leagues were ever exactly the same. I'm not sure exactly when the game "recognized" the distinctions, once the initial creation was over. I know that the original players in each league had different skill profiles, and I handled my affiliates from then on with those distinctions in mind, so at least it felt like there were real distinctions among all leagues.

06-20-2008, 10:48 PM	#1
KySteveH Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 266	My Annual "Why only 5 levels of minors" Thread Fictional Players: This will probably not interest you. Skip it, or add value, but I ask that you not hijack it. So, I thought I understood that this year's game would have the feature to designate more than 5 levels of minor leagues. It doesn't seem to, unless I have missed it. I see the same ones as last year, which means we can't separate the two levels of "A" ball, or the two levels of "rookie" ball that are present IRL. Has anyone looked at this, and is there a way to do it that I am not seeing?

06-20-2008, 10:52 PM	#2
Garrett67 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Union City, Michigan Posts: 282	I see 2 levels of A and 4 levels of rookie, but yes its 5 levels (AAA, AA, A, S-A x2 and 4 rookies)...... unless I'm misunderstanding you. (Via 'select league' drop down on upper right of the screen.) Last edited by Garrett67; 06-20-2008 at 10:53 PM.

06-20-2008, 11:22 PM	#5
Swimmer Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Castle Rock, Colorado Posts: 165	I also have an annual thread on this topic, although I usually post mine later, when the feature requests for the next version start coming up. Class D ball was a huge part of the baseball landscape pre-WWII, and I wish I could sim it. Like you, I thought I had understood that we would have more minor league levels in this game. __________________ People ask me what I do in the winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. --Rogers Hornsby

06-20-2008, 11:25 PM	#6
Erik W. Global Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rivière-du-Loup, Qc Posts: 4,615	Unless there's a limit that I'm not aware of, you can add more levels of minors than what's in the quick starts. __________________ Free agent baseball fan. Let's go (insert team name here)!

06-21-2008, 12:01 AM	#10
Erik W. Global Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rivière-du-Loup, Qc Posts: 4,615	I use the default 5 for real roster games, but 3 max in fictionals and historicals. 5 seems like overkill in a game. __________________ Free agent baseball fan. Let's go (insert team name here)!

06-20-2008, 11:14 PM	#4
RedSoxFaithful Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 82	This has bothered me for a while as well... Hope it's fixed in a future patch, I guess.

06-20-2008, 11:56 PM	#9
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608	You can also tinker with the MLEs for each level of minors and the AI will (for the most part) promote and demote players correctly between the various levels I find the multiple levels of Rookie and A ball to be a bit too redunant for my liking so I usually just use 3 or 4 levels of minors

06-21-2008, 01:10 AM	#19
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	What KySteveH is getting at is that, in real life, there are seven different minor league classification levels: AAA AA A-Advanced (a.k.a. "High A") A (a.k.a. "Low A") A-Short Season Rookie Advanced Rookie OOTP, for its part, only recreates five minor league classification levels as it combines the two Rookie levels into one and combines the two full-season A levels into one. The real minor leagues have been divided into seven classification levels since at least 1990. The Rookie Advanced and Rookie distinction is important because Rookie leagues are "complex" leagues, that is, they play their games at the spring training complexes of their major league parent clubs or other similar training sites. Such teams do not represent city/towns as do Rookie Advanced and higher level clubs, and no admission price is charged to attend Rookie league games. The four Rookie leagues (Arizona, Gulf Coast, Dominican Summer, and Venezuelan Summer) can be thought of as being instructional leagues rather that traditional, for-profit leagues. Rookie level teams are all owned and operated entirely by their major league parent clubs who pay for all the costs associated with running these leagues. Also, the Professional Baseball Agreement (PBA) explicitly excludes Rookie class leagues from the number of minor league clubs the majors are obligated to support via player development contracts (PDCs). MLB is only required to support the 160 minor league teams which exist from AAA down to Rookie Advanced; this means the majors can do whatever they want with the four Rookie leagues (e.g. expand and contract the leagues however they wish). Last edited by Le Grande Orange; 06-21-2008 at 01:17 AM.

06-21-2008, 01:14 AM	#20
spark240 All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Highest county in the Virginia hills Posts: 637	In my most-developed (longest running, most leagues) world in the last version, I changed those minor league PCMs for every league, on the theory that no two leagues were ever exactly the same. I'm not sure exactly when the game "recognized" the distinctions, once the initial creation was over. I know that the original players in each league had different skill profiles, and I handled my affiliates from then on with those distinctions in mind, so at least it felt like there were real distinctions among all leagues.