My gripe with the PbP

Russ · 06-26-2008, 10:52 PM

First of all, this is not an attack at Eugene or tysok or anyone else who contributes to the PbP, news stories, or anything which requires descriptive writing. I wish I could write as well as you guys and the PbP that is there is written very well. As a matter of fact, if calling the play was the only thing to worry about, I would be perfectly content.

However, there's much more to watching a game of baseball, to becoming completely immersed in the game than just the description of what is happening on the field. We play this great game for hours on end, pour over stats our fake little guys produce, think about our teams all day at work, decide what roster moves we're going to make while at the grocery store. But there's something missing when you're playing out the games.

I'm talking about...COLOR COMMENTARY!!

Seriously, all the info needed is already collected by the game. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but 6.5 had a lot more of it. Now, the actual PbP has improved significantly since then, but this bit that provides so much more enjoyment for me has sadly gone the way of managers having children and Sandy Alomar Jr. having a son make the big leagues and being called Sandy Alomar Jr. Jr.

This is a text sim. I don't understand how you can have a text sim and things like this not be given highest priority.

This is what we get now:

Lowell steps up to the plate...
Harden rocks and delivers...
knee high on the outside corner for strike three...
Lowell couldn't pull the trigger on that fastball...

it's okay, I guess, but why not something like this:

Lowell steps in to face Harden...
Lifetime he's 4 for 20 against Harden with 1 HR...
Lowell's really struggling this year against right handers...
Harden delivers...

This would add a lot of immersion for me.

bababui · 06-26-2008, 10:54 PM

Nice idea. I think it would be cool too.

CRTsports.com · 06-26-2008, 11:24 PM

I have always wanted that. During the PBP I try to imagine other things being said but what you wrote would be awesome if its possible to do.

HolyCow98 · 06-26-2008, 11:48 PM

The pre-At Bat PbP that use to be in the older versions I really miss. I really liked the parts where it told you Joe Player is 3rd in the National League in HR & 1st in RBIs. He's currently on a 7-game hit streak and 4-game RBI streak....

JWay · 06-26-2008, 11:59 PM

and if joe morgan gets in there, I will die happy!!!!!!!1111!1!ONE!

HolyCow98 · 06-27-2008, 12:10 AM

Booo Hissss...Moooo Hissss

DreamTeams · 06-27-2008, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HolyCow98

The pre-At Bat PbP that use to be in the older versions I really miss. I really liked the parts where it told you Joe Player is 3rd in the National League in HR & 1st in RBIs. He's currently on a 7-game hit streak and 4-game RBI streak....

I miss this, too. Thought for sure it would make a comeback this version.

pstrickert · 06-27-2008, 01:15 AM

I've worked with tysok (and others) on the PbP the last couple of years. We've all but begged Markus to add these enhancements to the PbP. Nothing more we can do than we've already done, I'm afraid.

Ambermonk · 06-27-2008, 02:07 AM

This idea (and many many more) have all been presented last year in a thread that lasted about a month. Tysok was especially helpful & supportive, and continues behind the scenes to encourage the development in this area.

What we talked about last year would represent a significant rewriting of the PBP code in order to tie it more intimately to respond to the game situation. The fact is - significant improvements have been made this year over the previous version's PBP.

The PBP is much more competent & professional than the last version - a huge improvement. Connecting the PBP to "react" to the ball flight is a new and sophisticated feature that represents a significant step towards what you are asking for. Because this is a new feature there have been some relatively minor bugs to work out, but in my opinion it is laying the groundwork for the future.

You have only mentioned a very small part of what has already been presented. When the development is ready to implement these things I think you will be stunned. You may not know it, but Tysok is already one of the strongest advocates for enhanced PBP.

HolyCow98 · 06-27-2008, 02:29 AM

I should have mentioned.....I really think the PbP is very good and you are right it is even better this version.

I pretty much figured to bring the stuff back (pre-AB) or other similar new enhancements would require Markus and goes beyond what the scope of what the text team could do concerning the development of the PbP text itself.

Eugene Church · 06-27-2008, 02:46 AM

Russ, you are absolutely right, it would be great to have these stats in the game.

I'm sure tysok knows the reason this was not included.

I am not really sure, but I seem to remember reading in a thread that it would slow the game down too much to include these stats like they were in V6.51.

It would just be take too long to for the game to retrieve these stats.

The Wolf · 06-27-2008, 08:48 AM

Enhanced PbP would rock.

The stat data could be prefetched and loaded into memory before the game actually starts, that would keep the game from running slowly.

MorseMoose · 06-27-2008, 08:54 AM

My gripe is the extra info tagged at the end of the result line.

(U8, UXD 384) or whatever it says. To me, it isn't PBP. I'd LOVE an option to turn that off/on. All I care about is what the result was.

hefalumps · 06-27-2008, 09:41 AM

This is really too bad, because that was one of the personal touches that I think made the pre-SI versions of OOTP feel "warmer" and more intimate than OOTP 2007/8/9. That being said, I have really gotten used to post-SI OOTP and feel that, overall, it is a far superior game at this point. And I was really stoked by some of the OOTP6 artifacts that made it back in to OOTP9 (like the league leaders on the standings screen)... but the color commentary is something that I really, really, REALLY hope could be considered for OOTP10. I wish they'd focused on bringing back the color commentary over sound.

akw4572 · 06-27-2008, 10:11 AM

Absolutely would add to the immersion factor. This was tremendous in v6.5, and should make a comeback. If it slows down the game when playing it out, add it as an option (super enhanced pbp?), and let those of us that play games out turn it on.

hefalumps · 06-27-2008, 11:02 AM

Agreed - maybe the game could "preload" some of the color PbP stats when the game first starts so that the delay is not as noticeable. Or, on my computer, there's already a slight delay between every at-bat. Why not analyze the matchup and/or approaching milestone, etc. between each at-bat before the play is run. That way it's in memory and ready to go.

And yeah, it probably should be an option if it puts in a significant delay.

griffeyin98 · 06-27-2008, 11:19 AM

this is the one thing that keeps me playing DMB, still waiting on purchasing the new version, but in the past there's never been anything that made me enjoy the actual game, only the management side of it

06-26-2008, 10:52 PM	#1
Russ All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Essex HON! Posts: 1,923 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	My gripe with the PbP First of all, this is not an attack at Eugene or tysok or anyone else who contributes to the PbP, news stories, or anything which requires descriptive writing. I wish I could write as well as you guys and the PbP that is there is written very well. As a matter of fact, if calling the play was the only thing to worry about, I would be perfectly content. However, there's much more to watching a game of baseball, to becoming completely immersed in the game than just the description of what is happening on the field. We play this great game for hours on end, pour over stats our fake little guys produce, think about our teams all day at work, decide what roster moves we're going to make while at the grocery store. But there's something missing when you're playing out the games. I'm talking about...COLOR COMMENTARY!! Seriously, all the info needed is already collected by the game. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but 6.5 had a lot more of it. Now, the actual PbP has improved significantly since then, but this bit that provides so much more enjoyment for me has sadly gone the way of managers having children and Sandy Alomar Jr. having a son make the big leagues and being called Sandy Alomar Jr. Jr. This is a text sim. I don't understand how you can have a text sim and things like this not be given highest priority. This is what we get now: Lowell steps up to the plate... Harden rocks and delivers... knee high on the outside corner for strike three... Lowell couldn't pull the trigger on that fastball... it's okay, I guess, but why not something like this: Lowell steps in to face Harden... Lifetime he's 4 for 20 against Harden with 1 HR... Lowell's really struggling this year against right handers... Harden delivers... This would add a lot of immersion for me. __________________ If you don't love Russ, you don't love America. This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

06-26-2008, 11:24 PM	#3
CRTsports.com Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 400	I have always wanted that. During the PBP I try to imagine other things being said but what you wrote would be awesome if its possible to do. __________________ Offline Solo League Kansas City Royals - (713-744)(1-3) -- READ ABOUT IT HERE!!! -- 2004 81-81----2012 83-79 -- 2005 64-98----2013 -- 2006 54-108 -- 2007 72-90 -- 2008 76-85 -- 2009 89-73 -- 2010 86-76 -- 2011 108-54 (1-3) Central Division Champs

06-26-2008, 11:48 PM	#4
HolyCow98 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Douglasville, GA Posts: 2,735	The pre-At Bat PbP that use to be in the older versions I really miss. I really liked the parts where it told you Joe Player is 3rd in the National League in HR & 1st in RBIs. He's currently on a 7-game hit streak and 4-game RBI streak.... __________________ NPBL Enjoying its 60th season Georgia GM

06-27-2008, 12:10 AM	#6
HolyCow98 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Douglasville, GA Posts: 2,735	Booo Hissss...Moooo Hissss __________________ NPBL Enjoying its 60th season Georgia GM

06-27-2008, 02:07 AM	#9
Ambermonk All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Morro Bay, CA Posts: 1,257	This idea (and many many more) have all been presented last year in a thread that lasted about a month. Tysok was especially helpful & supportive, and continues behind the scenes to encourage the development in this area. What we talked about last year would represent a significant rewriting of the PBP code in order to tie it more intimately to respond to the game situation. The fact is - significant improvements have been made this year over the previous version's PBP. The PBP is much more competent & professional than the last version - a huge improvement. Connecting the PBP to "react" to the ball flight is a new and sophisticated feature that represents a significant step towards what you are asking for. Because this is a new feature there have been some relatively minor bugs to work out, but in my opinion it is laying the groundwork for the future. You have only mentioned a very small part of what has already been presented. When the development is ready to implement these things I think you will be stunned. You may not know it, but Tysok is already one of the strongest advocates for enhanced PBP. __________________ *I cast this question into your soul, that I might know how deep it is* - Friedrich Nietzsche It often shows a fine command of language - to say nothing! - Bertrand Russell

06-26-2008, 11:59 PM	#5
JWay Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Posts: 5,031	and if joe morgan gets in there, I will die happy!!!!!!!1111!1!ONE!

06-27-2008, 01:15 AM	#8
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 17,008	I've worked with tysok (and others) on the PbP the last couple of years. We've all but begged Markus to add these enhancements to the PbP. Nothing more we can do than we've already done, I'm afraid.

06-27-2008, 02:29 AM	#10
HolyCow98 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Douglasville, GA Posts: 2,735	I should have mentioned.....I really think the PbP is very good and you are right it is even better this version. I pretty much figured to bring the stuff back (pre-AB) or other similar new enhancements would require Markus and goes beyond what the scope of what the text team could do concerning the development of the PbP text itself. __________________ NPBL Enjoying its 60th season Georgia GM

06-27-2008, 02:46 AM	#11
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 36,225	Russ, you are absolutely right, it would be great to have these stats in the game. I'm sure tysok knows the reason this was not included. I am not really sure, but I seem to remember reading in a thread that it would slow the game down too much to include these stats like they were in V6.51. It would just be take too long to for the game to retrieve these stats. Last edited by Eugene Church; 06-27-2008 at 02:47 AM.

06-27-2008, 08:54 AM	#13
MorseMoose Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 6,023 Infractions: 1/1 (1)	My gripe is the extra info tagged at the end of the result line. (U8, UXD 384) or whatever it says. To me, it isn't PBP. I'd LOVE an option to turn that off/on. All I care about is what the result was.

06-27-2008, 09:41 AM	#14
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,392	This is really too bad, because that was one of the personal touches that I think made the pre-SI versions of OOTP feel "warmer" and more intimate than OOTP 2007/8/9. That being said, I have really gotten used to post-SI OOTP and feel that, overall, it is a far superior game at this point. And I was really stoked by some of the OOTP6 artifacts that made it back in to OOTP9 (like the league leaders on the standings screen)... but the color commentary is something that I really, really, REALLY hope could be considered for OOTP10. I wish they'd focused on bringing back the color commentary over sound.

06-27-2008, 10:11 AM	#15
akw4572 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,601	Absolutely would add to the immersion factor. This was tremendous in v6.5, and should make a comeback. If it slows down the game when playing it out, add it as an option (super enhanced pbp?), and let those of us that play games out turn it on.

06-27-2008, 11:02 AM	#16
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,392	Agreed - maybe the game could "preload" some of the color PbP stats when the game first starts so that the delay is not as noticeable. Or, on my computer, there's already a slight delay between every at-bat. Why not analyze the matchup and/or approaching milestone, etc. between each at-bat before the play is run. That way it's in memory and ready to go. And yeah, it probably should be an option if it puts in a significant delay.

06-27-2008, 11:19 AM	#17
griffeyin98 Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 311	this is the one thing that keeps me playing DMB, still waiting on purchasing the new version, but in the past there's never been anything that made me enjoy the actual game, only the management side of it