Colon to the Yankees?

CommishJoe · 11-26-2002, 05:02 PM

http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/26051.htm

I'd hate to see Johnson go, but it makes sense. He's definately expendable to get the pitching staff younger. All I can say though is that the Yanks better sign him long term before they pull the trigger. Last thing I want to trade Johnson for is a 1 year wonder.

LivnLegend · 11-26-2002, 05:11 PM

Well Giambi isn't going anywhere for awhile so Johnson is defintely tradeable. With Colon and Weaver the young guys in the rotation, a lineup like this sure looks good enough to repeat as AL East champs. Sorry, Yankee-haters

A Soriano
DJeter
J Giambi
B Williams
Godzilla
J Posada
Ventura (E. Alfonzo rumors still abound)
J Rivera
S Spencer

Rotation: Colon Mussina Pettite Weaver Wells

GForce22 · 11-26-2002, 05:15 PM

of course you have to get rid of white and Mondesi first. And Matsui, and old Ventura, Rivera and Spencer don't put much fear in a pitching staff. Winning the east doesn't take much, but as long as it ends with the Skankees getting beaten in the playoffs again, it's all good

"Half the payroll, twice the heart" - World's greatest banner, Anaheim, 2002

GH

holyroller · 11-26-2002, 06:08 PM

I think when the biggest criticism of the lineup is that its 7-9 hitters don't strike much fear in the heart of pitching staff, you are going to be scoring some freakin rizuns.

AsTrOFaN · 11-26-2002, 09:37 PM

I thought they were considering trading prospect Juan Rivera along with Johnson for Colon/Vazquez, meaning they would probably have to keep either White or Mondesi (probably White??)

TotalEnd98 · 11-26-2002, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AsTrOFaN
I thought they were considering trading prospect Juan Rivera along with Johnson for Colon/Vazquez, meaning they would probably have to keep either White or Mondesi (probably White??)

They're also pursuing a three-way deal that would send White/Mondesi to Colorado (where they should produce SOMEWHAT) for Colorado to send Neagle to the Mets, with the Yanks paying some of Neagle's salary. Which makes very little sense, but they explained it better on ESPN.com (http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/caple_jim/1467091.html):

<<Let's see. The Yankees reportedly may trade Raul Mondesi and Rondell White to the Rockies in exchange for no one. In order to get no one for Mondesi and White, the Yankees reportedly also must pay Colorado pitcher Denny Neagle $10 million over the next three years to pitch for the Mets. The Rockies will pay Neagle even more money not to pitch for them the next three years.

Err, could you give that to me again?>>

Basically, the Yanks are looking to send $13 million in payroll to Colorado, and in exchange will pay about $3.3M a year of Neagle's bloated salary. Everyone seems to be a winner, even if it doesn't make a terrible amount of sense on the surface.

Long_Long_Name · 11-26-2002, 10:39 PM

I'd say the Yankees definitely need some more starters, it's obvious that it's their weak spot.

TotalEnd98 · 11-26-2002, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Long_Long_Name
I'd say the Yankees definitely need some more starters, it's obvious that it's their weak spot.

Not terribly weak. The starters just had an off year last year.

Mussina's one of the great pitchers of the last decade. His 2001 and 2002 performances were both fine.

Pettitte's problem was his elbow, which put him on the DL for two months, after which he came out dominant. Keep in mind that over the last seven years, the only two lefties with more wins than he has are Randy Johnson and Tom Glavine... not bad. He's also the second-youngest starter on the Yanks at 30.

Clemens is getting old, but he's definitely still got it, and I'll assume he does until he proves he doesn't. And I'll also assume he learned his lesson and won't try to bare-hand any line drives with his pitching hand.

The old stuff mentioned for Clemens? Ditto Wells, who was an afterthought in the preseason and a 19-game winner when October rolled around.

Weaver's 25. Give him a while.

I'll give you Hernandez.

Would I like to see the starters improve? Sure. Just like if we went 161-1, I'd say "Well, I'd like to see them win that last one next season."

But until there's a serious, demonstrable problem in the rotation, I think they're OK for 2003.

CommishJoe · 11-27-2002, 07:59 AM

More info about Colon (and others)..

http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/ind...1647208930.xml

Long_Long_Name · 11-27-2002, 04:02 PM

my post was sarcastic, totalend

TotalEnd98 · 12-01-2002, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Long_Long_Name
my post was sarcastic, totalend

D'oh! <slaps own face> Sorry about that.

lynchjm24 · 12-01-2002, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TotalEnd98
Not terribly weak. The starters just had an off year last year.

Mussina's one of the great pitchers of the last decade. His 2001 and 2002 performances were both fine.

Pettitte's problem was his elbow, which put him on the DL for two months, after which he came out dominant. Keep in mind that over the last seven years, the only two lefties with more wins than he has are Randy Johnson and Tom Glavine... not bad. He's also the second-youngest starter on the Yanks at 30.

Clemens is getting old, but he's definitely still got it, and I'll assume he does until he proves he doesn't. And I'll also assume he learned his lesson and won't try to bare-hand any line drives with his pitching hand.

The old stuff mentioned for Clemens? Ditto Wells, who was an afterthought in the preseason and a 19-game winner when October rolled around.

Weaver's 25. Give him a while.

I'll give you Hernandez.

Would I like to see the starters improve? Sure. Just like if we went 161-1, I'd say "Well, I'd like to see them win that last one next season."

But until there's a serious, demonstrable problem in the rotation, I think they're OK for 2003.

I couldn't disagree with this nonsense any more.
Mussina's 2002 was far from 'fine'. He stunk until September and then pitched well against TB and Detroit. Whoopie.

Pettitte is on the wrong side of his career, and at no point was he 'dominant'.

Clemens is useless for anything more than 4 2/3 innings. Wells is finished.

Weaver showed nothing. Well actually he showed he can give up long homeruns.

The Yankees are in a whole mess of trouble pitching wise.

AsTrOFaN · 12-01-2002, 06:07 PM

Pettite's ERA has dropped every year since 1999, and Mussina's 4.05 ERA is hardly terrible. Wells had a 3.75 ERA and still has some left, and Weaver posted a 4.04 ERA with the Yankees.

A team 3.87 ERA is so terrible too

..

lynchjm24 · 12-01-2002, 08:19 PM

Pettitte threw all of 134 innings.
Mussina's era was 5 until he had four starts against Tampa and Detroit in September.
Wells can't pitch in any kind of adversity. See his playoff start.
Weaver was plain awful.

CMH · 12-02-2002, 11:16 PM

the deal to pay neagle makes sense.

would you rather be paying 13 million a year or 3 million a year? Yea the Yanks get no players in return but I rather they get rid of White and Mondesi (who I never liked to begin with - always tryin to hit a homerun...) and drop 10 million. That's being smart. Especially if you are tryin to cut payroll (which IMO is a lie b/c its George and if he gets the chance to sign someone big, he'll do it, no problem)

As for the Yanks rotation. I wouldnt worry about Mussina. He's fine. He had an off year, but is still a very dominant pitcher. His track record proves it. Clemens needs to go. I dont want him back. Nice to see that the Yanks wanna be respectful to the future hall of famer, but shouldnt they also get the same back from Clemens? He wants another 10 mill (to add to that 10 mill he already has) to pitch while he is declining and throwing up a 4 run ERA??? crazy idiot.

Weaver pitched really well at the end of the season. Who it was against doesnt matter. Last time i checked the Devil Rays still won baseball games this season so its not an "easy" win. Yea you have a better chance at winning but playing lazy against teams gets you what happened to the Yankees, Twins, and Giants in the playoffs.

Pettitte worries me b/c of his elbow, but we've seen some players come back from worse and pitch really well. Pettitte is one of the top lefties in baseball. NOt an overstatement. Look at his career record and ERA. I hope he will be fine, but I dont know. Luckily he's still kinda young.

Hernandez needs to go. Wells worries me everyday but continues to amaze me. He isnt great and obviously benefitted from a great Yankee offense, but you still have to keep your team in it and Wells did that last year.

Anyways, i'm not worried about the Yankees. The Boston Red Sox continue to think that signing mediocre players will win them a division title.

Someone today, at economics class (yes at economics, we were discussing the new idea of different ticket price levels depending on the team a ballclub is playing) and someone in my class said it was unfair that the Yankees make so much money and can sign whoever they want every year. Obviously this kid didnt remember that Boston signed Manny Ramirez, oh i cry for the poor child. He also doesnt realize that Boston basically sells out every game and makes enough revenue to sign whatever player they want. He also forgot that teams like the Twins make more money than the Yankees every year (well the owners do at least) and dont put any of it back into the ballclub. It's also obvious that this kid understands the fundamentals of economics, but doesnt understand the fundamentals of good managment (it's called putting your profit back into the company to raise revenue. simple really).

I pity those that blind themselves with the love for their team and follow everyone else in their hate for the Yankees, but never actually look into what other teams are doing. Is it the Yankees fault that Pittsburgh thought that giving Bell a huge contract was a great idea?

11-26-2002, 05:02 PM	#1
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	Colon to the Yankees? http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/26051.htm I'd hate to see Johnson go, but it makes sense. He's definately expendable to get the pitching staff younger. All I can say though is that the Yanks better sign him long term before they pull the trigger. Last thing I want to trade Johnson for is a 1 year wonder. __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.

11-26-2002, 05:11 PM	#2
LivnLegend Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: 100% pure adrenaline! Posts: 5,624	Well Giambi isn't going anywhere for awhile so Johnson is defintely tradeable. With Colon and Weaver the young guys in the rotation, a lineup like this sure looks good enough to repeat as AL East champs. Sorry, Yankee-haters A Soriano DJeter J Giambi B Williams Godzilla J Posada Ventura (E. Alfonzo rumors still abound) J Rivera S Spencer Rotation: Colon Mussina Pettite Weaver Wells __________________ Excess ain't rebellion. You're drinking what they're selling.

11-26-2002, 06:08 PM	#4
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	I think when the biggest criticism of the lineup is that its 7-9 hitters don't strike much fear in the heart of pitching staff, you are going to be scoring some freakin rizuns. __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”

11-26-2002, 10:39 PM	#7
Long_Long_Name Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Montréal Posts: 7,065	I'd say the Yankees definitely need some more starters, it's obvious that it's their weak spot. __________________ Beta Baseball. Join it!

11-27-2002, 07:59 AM	#9
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	More info about Colon (and others).. http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/ind...1647208930.xml __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.

11-26-2002, 05:15 PM	#3
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	of course you have to get rid of white and Mondesi first. And Matsui, and old Ventura, Rivera and Spencer don't put much fear in a pitching staff. Winning the east doesn't take much, but as long as it ends with the Skankees getting beaten in the playoffs again, it's all good "Half the payroll, twice the heart" - World's greatest banner, Anaheim, 2002 GH

11-26-2002, 09:37 PM	#5
AsTrOFaN Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 334	I thought they were considering trading prospect Juan Rivera along with Johnson for Colon/Vazquez, meaning they would probably have to keep either White or Mondesi (probably White??)

11-27-2002, 04:02 PM	#10
Long_Long_Name Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Montréal Posts: 7,065	my post was sarcastic, totalend __________________ Beta Baseball. Join it!

12-01-2002, 06:07 PM	#13
AsTrOFaN Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 334	Pettite's ERA has dropped every year since 1999, and Mussina's 4.05 ERA is hardly terrible. Wells had a 3.75 ERA and still has some left, and Weaver posted a 4.04 ERA with the Yankees. A team 3.87 ERA is so terrible too ..

12-01-2002, 08:19 PM	#14
lynchjm24 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hartford Posts: 978 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Pettitte threw all of 134 innings. Mussina's era was 5 until he had four starts against Tampa and Detroit in September. Wells can't pitch in any kind of adversity. See his playoff start. Weaver was plain awful.

12-02-2002, 11:16 PM	#15
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	the deal to pay neagle makes sense. would you rather be paying 13 million a year or 3 million a year? Yea the Yanks get no players in return but I rather they get rid of White and Mondesi (who I never liked to begin with - always tryin to hit a homerun...) and drop 10 million. That's being smart. Especially if you are tryin to cut payroll (which IMO is a lie b/c its George and if he gets the chance to sign someone big, he'll do it, no problem) As for the Yanks rotation. I wouldnt worry about Mussina. He's fine. He had an off year, but is still a very dominant pitcher. His track record proves it. Clemens needs to go. I dont want him back. Nice to see that the Yanks wanna be respectful to the future hall of famer, but shouldnt they also get the same back from Clemens? He wants another 10 mill (to add to that 10 mill he already has) to pitch while he is declining and throwing up a 4 run ERA??? crazy idiot. Weaver pitched really well at the end of the season. Who it was against doesnt matter. Last time i checked the Devil Rays still won baseball games this season so its not an "easy" win. Yea you have a better chance at winning but playing lazy against teams gets you what happened to the Yankees, Twins, and Giants in the playoffs. Pettitte worries me b/c of his elbow, but we've seen some players come back from worse and pitch really well. Pettitte is one of the top lefties in baseball. NOt an overstatement. Look at his career record and ERA. I hope he will be fine, but I dont know. Luckily he's still kinda young. Hernandez needs to go. Wells worries me everyday but continues to amaze me. He isnt great and obviously benefitted from a great Yankee offense, but you still have to keep your team in it and Wells did that last year. Anyways, i'm not worried about the Yankees. The Boston Red Sox continue to think that signing mediocre players will win them a division title. Someone today, at economics class (yes at economics, we were discussing the new idea of different ticket price levels depending on the team a ballclub is playing) and someone in my class said it was unfair that the Yankees make so much money and can sign whoever they want every year. Obviously this kid didnt remember that Boston signed Manny Ramirez, oh i cry for the poor child. He also doesnt realize that Boston basically sells out every game and makes enough revenue to sign whatever player they want. He also forgot that teams like the Twins make more money than the Yankees every year (well the owners do at least) and dont put any of it back into the ballclub. It's also obvious that this kid understands the fundamentals of economics, but doesnt understand the fundamentals of good managment (it's called putting your profit back into the company to raise revenue. simple really). I pity those that blind themselves with the love for their team and follow everyone else in their hate for the Yankees, but never actually look into what other teams are doing. Is it the Yankees fault that Pittsburgh thought that giving Bell a huge contract was a great idea?