TotalMinors Roster Set For OOTP4

[GForce22]

Hey guys,

I mentioned this in another thread, but I am considering doing a roster set for OOTP4. Markus and the group here have impressed me a great deal with their dedication and their customer support, as well as with the quality of their game.
For those who aren't familiar with the TotalMinors roster set, it was developed for High Heat 2002 and was the most used roster set for the release (more than 20,000 downloads from original and derivative releases).
I developed spreadsheets that rate all players in the majors and minor leagues using the past three years of data. These numbers are run through formulas and compared with the averages of the league that player competed in that year. For example, hitting .275 in the Pacific Coast League last year was not the same as doing so in the International League. .275 was the league average in the PCL, while it was 13 points above the league average in the IL. Figures like this should not be ignored when developing ratings, and they are factored into my work. Age relative to league is also factored into my figures.
I have already started developing the sheets for this year, though I am yet unsure if I will have the time to do the set.
I plan to get in touch with Markus and company in the next couple of days with a few questions regarding the game this year and things I need to know for development. But, with 3DO's horrendous customer support, I find myself moving more and more towards OOTP. I was impressed last year and the work that seems to have gone into this year's version has me quite anxious for its release.
If you want to know more about my roster work and my ratings, check out BaseballSimCentral under HH2K2 in the extras section...you will see GForce's Spreadsheets. Download this file and read the ReadMe. I just didn't want to post it here because it's pretty long.
Take care and, regardless of whether I get involved in roster work this year, I wish nothing but the best for Markus and his group, OOTP and this community. I plan on being more of a part of it one way or another.

Take care,

GH

[koohead]

Great to hear that you are at least considering it. Your set for 2k2 was great..I really enjoyed using it for HH. I'm looking forward to both of your sets!

Thanks for all your hard work.

[Steve Kuffrey]

G,

AWESOME, that would be fantastic!! I know you've been on-board here awhile but glad to have you taking this interest.

[redsox45]

GForce,

I used your High Heat rosters when I did play it. I found them very fun and accurate (as much as HH can be accurate), and hope you decide to do them.

I'm sure both Big City Baseball and myself would host them, so getting them out there won't be a problem.

It's always nice to have two or three, or four good sets, as the creator of each is going to look at certain things a bit differently.

Will

[GForce22]

Thanks for the kind words guys. I really hope I'm going to be able to have the time to get this done. Between getting married and getting my house over the next 4 months there's a lot going on. There are some things that need to be addressed, and Steve, you will be getting an e-mail from me soon with some information that I may need to get this done. The way I was setting things up for HH development is a bit different than for OOTP, only because you have a lot more variables. I'll probably be getting in touch with Pierre as well.
Believe me, it's your great support and dedication that has me looking to do this. If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask here or e-mail me.

Take care,

GH

[Erich Ingram]

GH,

I already sent you an email. It looks like you and I really should sit down and chat about rosters. Maybe tonight on AIM. I should be on most of the night, my AIM id is eingram91.

[GForce22]

I'll look you up when I get home, Rolen. Probably after 10:30 or so.

GH

[Erich Ingram]

Cool, I think that we might be able to put out a spectacular file.

[brendanrfoley]

One concern GForce(it's Brewster from the ClubHouse):

If you're using three year averages, doesn't that negaye the fact that some young players are improving?

Tony Blanco, for instance, had a huge first year then was hurt last year and looks to rebound. To your formulas allow for slightly more growth of talent as opposed to a 34 year old major leaguer whose averages would be a little more accurate?

Regardless, if you do make a roster, I'll download it, and play with it myself

[GForce22]

Hey Brewster...good to hear from ya.

I'm a big proponent of what a player has done, not what his potential is. The old baseball adage is that "potential means you haven't done anything yet."

I weigh numbers for one thing, so all years aren't weighted equally. 1999 numbers are worth 18% or so, 2000 is worth 32% and 2001 is worth 50%. These are figures compared with the league averages. So if Blanco (I don't have his numbers in front of me) had a monster 2000 and a subpar 2001, yes, his numbers will be hurt. But, with 2000 being as strong as it was, he won't completely be destroyed by last year.
You also have to be careful about assuming a guy will be fine after having an injury. For example, Hee Choi of the Cubs was hurt last year with a wrist injury. Those things tend to get chronic. I wouldn't want to assume that he'll be totally fine and not factor this in.
I am also a strong believer in "if you're healthy enough to play, you can't cry about the result." If you're in the lineup, you're in it. That's a personal stance of mine, but it lets you know a bit of where I come from with this stuff. I mean, Robin Ventura has played hurt for 2 years. Does he get a free pass because of that? I say no, because he was in the lineup.
Also, especially with OOTP, a player's age and progression seems to be handled much better than in High Heat. The more I mess with OOTP, the better I'll be able to gauge this kind of thing.

Thanks for the interest and if you have any other questions, fire away!

Take care,

GH

[Cypher74]

This sounds perfect, I'd be psyched to get a set like this!

[GForce22]

I figured I would put out here my original plan for TotalMinors 2K3 for High Heat. While there remains some chance I will end up doing a set for High Heat, that seems less and less likely for a few reasons.
Anyway, here is what I had planned for HH2K3. If I am able to go ahead with work here for OOTP4, many of these things will come through in one form or another.
----------------------
Planned features for TotalMinors 2K3 include:
++ Completely revised performance ratings based on 3 years of data, compared with league, relative to age and weighted to value the most recent year more than the previous two. Sample spreadsheets are available at BaseballSimcentral.com with a ReadMe that goes into more specific detail about how I develop my ratings. These include adjusted ratings for major league players, as well as minor-leaguers.
++ Roster updates at least once a month. These updates account for transactions and any ratings changes I may consider appropriate given a player’s performance.
++ Minor league updates. This consists of added players not in the original set. The plan is to do this monthly, starting at the end of April or the beginning of May. I would do them as input files so users can add these guys without disrupting an ongoing season.
++ A post-draft update/import file of at least the first five rounds.
++ Revised ratings on arm strength and other intangibles after extensive testing when the new game is released (since ratings may be somewhat altered from last year’s version.)
++ Added minor league photo updates throughout the season. The tentative plan is to do this on a monthly basis.
++ A Web site that would include:
1. Tutorials on roster creation, ratings, etc.
2. Lists of transactions, so users can update your rosters without having to load other post-Opening Day updates.
3. Articles from other mod-makers wishing to contribute and, if they so desire, members of the 3DO development team who could provide added insight into different features.
4. Minor league reports. I am a writer by trade and doing roster development has turned me into an avid follower of minor league baseball. I plan to write articles for the site and have spoken with a few people from other baseball sites who said they would contribute.
5. Suggested ratings changes for existing players as warranted. I realize that player performances change, and some ratings slip through the cracks. I will let users know any of these that I come across so they can keep their set as accurate as possible without disrupting their season with separate downloads.
6. A forum for requests for added players, photos, etc. Any roster work would be pointless without user support, so I want to be very open as to what they want to see and will do my best to accommodate.

This is basically what I had planned. For those of you who were following what was going on with my plans for HH2k3, I want to clarify something (and explain to those of you who weren't around for it):

Doing this takes a LOT of time, especially with all I have going on right now. Compiling complete spreadsheets for each team requires more than 100 hours by itself, before any other figures are calculated and entered into the program. There was some misinterpretation that I planned on charging for the roster set. That was NOT the plan. All I planned on doing was setting up as part of my Web site an area for contributions, where those who could afford to do so could donate as compensation for my time and effort. This would not, and will not, be a pay-to-download situation. These rosters would be readily available for everybody. I just wanted to set something up so I stood a chance of receiving some compensation for my work, because frankly, with a wedding and house to pay for, the money would really help. Hopefully everyone understands that and appreciates the situation.

As always, let me know any questions and I'll be glad to answer.

Take care,

GH

[brendanrfoley]

GForce, thanks for your very detailed response.

I agree with what you said, for the most part. I guess where we see differently is that in the minors, unless the person is a total stud, they take a slight hit going from level to level while they adjust.

Especially with pitchers. Then, after a few months, they get bakck to form and perform better than what their total numbers say (the early struggles inflate the totals).

That said, I can't wait to see what you do with your project. I only have the OOTP3 demo, so I have no idea how the game handles the development of young talent besdies the fact that in historical leagues, guys who were great sometimes develop differently. It seems there is a greater range of what a player can go through.

I'm all for you doing this roster set, as I've used your rosters in the past an they are fantastic.

Out of curiosity, if DangerZ is working(possibly) on another edit, what is stopping you from doing HH this year? Has he, um, how do I say, spread the word that the game is crap?

Anywho, see you around...

[GForce22]

Hey Brewster,

no sweat. I appreciate the interest and have no problem answering questions.
I see your point. The thing is, my sheets only use the level at which a player played the most during a given year. So say a guy gets 310 ABs at AA, hits .290/.365/.505. He gets called up to AAA and gets 120 ABs, hits .243/.312/.405. My spreadsheets only use the AA numbers. This guards somewhat against the kind of thing you are talking about. It also guards somewhat against inflated numbers for guys repeating a given league (which scouts often take into account).
As for High Heat...it's a few things. One is that Pudge and I were going to go about doing a roster set together (he has been updating my set for transactions since the summer). He has since backed out for time reasons. I am still talking with 3DO about some things but for a few reasons, I don't see much coming from that.
Mostly it's because 3DO has said NOTHING about its product, leaving what has traditionally been a VERY supportive community in the dark. High Heat is a good game that has the ability to be great but never has, and likely never will, realize that. Their customer support has been terrible since its inception and there is no regard for those of us mod makers (be it rosters, stadiums, uniforms, Eric's editor) who have kept that series going. I resent that and it's really the biggest reason OOTP has gotten my attention. I was getting a surprising amount of people who said they would contribute money to the development of this year's set for High Heat (about 60% of those who responded said they would give something). That made me feel good. But I have a feeling this is the year High Heat crashes and burns, and they'll have nobody to blame but themselves.

Take care,

GH

[JWay]

gforce rsoters rule

[Cypher74]

Can someone on the OOTP team get GForce involved ASAP? I am salivating over something like this...

[GForce22]

Thanks for the compliments guys. As for OOTP's team getting me on board...trust me, they've more than done their part just through their customer relations and their product. If I'm not able to do anything this year, it will only be because of time issues.
I'm getting more pumped up about doing this by the day...I just need to make sure I can do it before getting into it. I don't want to do anything half-assed. It wouldn't be fair to those who use the set, and it would hurt what I've been fortunate enough to cultivate as a pretty good reputation for roster work.
I should know for sure by the weekend.

Take care,

GH

[GForce22]

forgive the bump, I just wanted this up there as we get closer to the release so I could gauge interest and answer any questions anyone has about the prospective set. A lot is going to depend on Pierre's editor, and he and I are trading e-mails about this as we speak.

Take care.

GH

[CommishJoe]

*drool* Rolen and GForce working together on an OOTP4 roster set ... *drool*

[grismosw]

This would be awesome!