Suggestions: Historical Leagues

battists · 07-02-2007, 11:19 AM

This suggestion thread is designed to collect suggestions for the next version of OOTP, on the following topic:

Historical Leagues

Includes
- Ideas related to historical leagues (Lahman and other related DBs)

Excludes
- Stay away from stuff that is equally relevant to non-historical leagues, please!

Instructions
We will use this thread to collect suggestions on the above topic. Later on, we hope to present this information back to the community in a way that would allow you to vote and prioritize certain features.

If you would like to participate, here are the rules!

Only 1 suggestion per post.
Suggestions must be on-topic for the thread.
Constructive, non-inflammatory suggestions only.
No comments on others' suggestions are necessary. That means, we don't need 15 posts in the thread saying "Great idea!" or "I agree!"
Please don't link to other forum threads as your way of making suggestions. ("My suggestion can be found HERE.") If it's important enough to you that you want it in this thread, then it should be important enough to put it in the format I've asked for here!
You can certainly post suggestions that conflict with or build upon earlier suggestions.
Mockups are welcomed, they really help Markus see what you're interested in accomplishing.

Format for Suggestions

Suggestion
What is your suggestion? Be as specific as possible; include the screen you're talking about, if applicable.

Reason
Why do you think this is important? If this is to correct what you perceive as a problem in OOTP 2007, what is that problem? Be as specific as possible.

Priority
In your opinion, how important is this suggestion?
High (MUST have), Medium (should have), Low (nice to have))

Thanks for participating!

Steve

battists · 07-02-2007, 11:28 AM

Suggestion
Built-in Lahman, if you can get the lawyers to agree!

Reason
Still too difficult to set up an historical league!

Priority
High

thbroman · 07-02-2007, 11:57 AM

Steve, I can't fit this into your format yet, because I need help & advice from people on the forum who are more imaginative and knowledgeable about BB history than I.

What I want to suggest is the implementation of league structures that more closely resembles the baseball universe of the the 1920s through 1960s, with more levels of minor leagues, independent minor leagues, purchase of contracts from those leagues, etc. It would require changing the free agent system to some extent, I think, but the real advantage would be to offer much more interesting scope for sending your scouts to look for raw talent in those bush leagues.

Does Le Grande Orange or someone else who really knows the history have anything to suggest along these lines?

Edit: I'm sorry, I see this may be misplaced in this thread. Go ahead and move or delete, at your will.

MODERATOR EDIT

Suggestion
implementation of league structures that more closely resembles the baseball universe of the the 1920s through 1960s, with more levels of minor leagues, independent minor leagues, purchase of contracts from those leagues, etc. It would require changing the free agent system to some extent, I think, but the real advantage would be to offer much more interesting scope for sending your scouts to look for raw talent in those bush leagues.

Reason
offer much more interesting scope for sending your scouts to look for raw talent in those bush leagues

Priority
Medium

Le Grande Orange · 07-02-2007, 05:08 PM

Suggestion
Historically accurate post-season schedules, both for the World Series and other playoff rounds.

Reason
The game now has the proper historical regular season schedules for historical leagues, so it's time to get the post-season up to the same standard. It also provides more play challenges, since a World Series played entirely on consecutive days requires different managing by the game player than a World Series played under current-day rules, for example.

I have an idea of how this could be done by using a schedule file system similar to how the regular season is handled. But I won't bore everyone with those details at the moment - I'll save that for when the suggestion is approved!

Priority
High, as far as I'm concerned.

Le Grande Orange · 07-02-2007, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thbroman

What I want to suggest is the implementation of league structures that more closely resembles the baseball universe of the the 1920s through 1960s, with more levels of minor leagues, independent minor leagues, purchase of contracts from those leagues, etc. It would require changing the ree agent system to some extent, I think, but the real advantage would be to offer much more interesting scope for sending your scouts to look for raw talent in those bush leagues.

Does Le Grande Orange or someone else who really knows the history have anything to suggest along these lines?

I heartily agree with the basic concept, and have a few general ideas, but it's hard to make more specific suggestions since they rely on certain other areas of the game being modified (e.g. the major-minor relationship, classification levels, etc.).

Without knowing which of these other areas are open to being altered to work with the enhanced minor leagues idea, it's hard to know which specific concepts should be put forth.

But certainly the idea of making the major league-minor league relationship in the game more reflective of how that relationship has evolved and changed in real life is a priority to me. It's an area that may be more useful being discussed in general terms first in a thread somewhere...

...that said, maybe I'll try to scrape together more specific proposals anyway.

Comedian2004 · 07-02-2007, 06:24 PM

This falls hand in hand with the Lahman suggestion, but...

Suggestion
When importing historical players, make it easier than the way it is. You have to know the players Lahman ID.
Reason
Too difficult to set up an import a historical player!

Priority
Medium

thbroman · 07-02-2007, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

...that said, maybe I'll try to scrape together more specific proposals anyway.

I think one of the basic ideas would be the implementation of a system whereby a higher-level team can buy out the contract of a player in a lower-level league. That doesn't exist currently in OOTP, but it would be vital.

If Markus wants an idea of how this might work, he might ask his colleagues who work on Football Manager! The transfer system in that game (and in FIFA, I guess) is an excellent possible model, with a few tweaks.

Le Grande Orange · 07-03-2007, 02:38 PM

Suggestion

Recreate the impact that WWII and other conflicts had on the major league rosters by removing the players who left for military service from the game for the appropriate years.

Reason

This would allow a much more realistic recreation of the WWII and other war years in a historical league, as the players who missed major league playing time due to military service will also miss the same amount of time in the game as well.

I have a file downloaded from SABR which lists all the major leaguers who served and for approximately how long, so that could be used to create a file which the game uses to determine which player to remove at what point and for how long.

There would need to be some additions to the way the roster rules work in order to account for how the majors actually responded after WWII, but this should be too difficult a problem (hopefully). I would also make this "military service" recreation an option so the user could choose whether or not they wish to use this feature when they set up their historical league.

Priority

High - this option adds an important element of historical accuracy to the game.

Kivlehan · 07-04-2007, 08:35 PM

Suggestion
Allow imports at 1871 with either adjustments made for pre 1901 data or caveats to users that their mileage may vary before 1901.

Reason
Because a historical sim doesn't feel complete unless I get to see Ross Barnes, Al Spalding, John Clarkson, Old Hoss Radbourn, et al playing their trade.

Priority
Medium (should have)

SandMan · 07-04-2007, 08:56 PM

Suggestion
Allow import from Lahman to be normalized. This would be nice to have when importing players from different eras. Example - a player hits 4 homer runs in the deadball era, and would be considered above average. Another hitter hits 15 today and is an average hitter. When imported the first player would have a higher power rating. Ratings could be era based and then adjusted for the era, make all average players the same even though they have obviously different stats based on their era played.....

Reason
Nice to have when importing players from multiple seasons or from RANDOM DEBUT databases.

Priority
Low

AESP_pres · 07-05-2007, 07:34 PM

Not sure if it's the good place for this sugestion, feel free to move it if it's belong to another place.

Suggestion

Import real manager for historical league.

Reason

they are in the Lahman database with their career stats and it will be better to start with the real manager of the team. I think that it will add more realism, it's seem funny to have black manager in 1901 when the black player can't play.

Priority

Medium (should have)

Raidergoo · 07-22-2007, 12:14 AM

Processed to this point.

rwd59 · 08-11-2007, 10:51 PM

Suggestion: Change the way the games calculates salaries in a non-free agency league. As it is now all players recieve arbitration level salaries in every season except their first season being called up. First time call-ups are the only ones who make the minimum salary.

Reason: This causes high payrolls with most teams losing money (all of them most of the time). It makes it almost impossible to trade when all teams are at a deficit. I started a couple of threads about this already.

Priority: High (to me anyway)

Swimmer · 08-13-2007, 07:38 PM

Suggestion: Allow for more levels of minor leagues

Reason: Historically, there have been more than just the 5 levels presented. Levels B, C, and D were significant forces in small town life before radio and tv (particularly D).

Priority: Medium

pstrickert · 08-14-2007, 03:58 PM

Suggestion

Allow real-life lineup and transaction files to be imported.

Reason

This feature would appeal to those who want to "mimic" history. It would also prevent the AI (or user) from overusing or underusing certain players.

Priority

Medium - inasmuch as it could entice DMBers to convert to OOTP.

pstrickert · 08-14-2007, 04:04 PM

Suggestion

Impose overuse penalties.

Reason

This feature would dissuade the user (and AI, presumably) from overusing certain players during historical replays.

Priority

Low

pstrickert · 08-14-2007, 04:13 PM

Suggestion

Increase the negative effect of using players "out of position" (i.e., somewhere other than their primary positions).

Reason

The AI too cavalierly moves players to positions other than their primary positions. It apparently does not take into consideration the impact of poor defense on the outcome of games. In my experience, the AI tries hard to create lineups that maximize OFFENSE, even if it means playing one or two (or several) players "out of position" defensively.

Priority

Medium - since it feels "phony"

pstrickert · 08-14-2007, 04:18 PM

Suggestion

Tweak the lineup AI for choosing leadoff hitters.

Reason

Sometimes the AI chooses leadoff hitters who, though they have a high OBP, do not run very well. That's not ideal for a leadoff hitter. (Other times, they also have power ratings more suitable for the 3, 4, or 5 spots in the lineup.)

Priority

Low

EDIT: Perhaps this suggestion belongs in a different category.

Raidergoo · 08-16-2007, 02:51 PM

Processed.

Le Grande Orange · 08-16-2007, 07:20 PM

Suggestion:

Historically accurate spring training schedules.

Reason:

While the regular seasons for historical leagues use the real schedules, the spring training period is entirely created by OOTP. Why not bring the spring training schedules up to the same level of real-world accuracy? The spring training schedules of years past in the majors were quite different in character than those played currently, with some teams playing each other numerous times.

I have onhand almost all of the actual MLB spring training schedules from the early 1930s onwards. While the earlier years might pose a few issues due to the spring training schedules featuring a lot of games against minor league opponents, certainly from the early 1950s onwards MLB spring training schedules played almost exclusively against other major league teams so they certainly could be used for historical leagues.

Priority:

Medium/High.

(The regular season schedules are the proper real-world ones. I really want to get the spring training and post-season schedules up to that same standard of accuracy!)

07-02-2007, 11:19 AM	#1
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	Suggestions: Historical Leagues This suggestion thread is designed to collect suggestions for the next version of OOTP, on the following topic: Historical Leagues Includes - Ideas related to historical leagues (Lahman and other related DBs) Excludes - Stay away from stuff that is equally relevant to non-historical leagues, please! Instructions We will use this thread to collect suggestions on the above topic. Later on, we hope to present this information back to the community in a way that would allow you to vote and prioritize certain features. If you would like to participate, here are the rules! Only 1 suggestion per post. Suggestions must be on-topic for the thread. Constructive, non-inflammatory suggestions only. No comments on others' suggestions are necessary. That means, we don't need 15 posts in the thread saying "Great idea!" or "I agree!" Please don't link to other forum threads as your way of making suggestions. ("My suggestion can be found HERE.") If it's important enough to you that you want it in this thread, then it should be important enough to put it in the format I've asked for here! You can certainly post suggestions that conflict with or build upon earlier suggestions. Mockups are welcomed, they really help Markus see what you're interested in accomplishing. Format for Suggestions Suggestion What is your suggestion? Be as specific as possible; include the screen you're talking about, if applicable. Reason Why do you think this is important? If this is to correct what you perceive as a problem in OOTP 2007, what is that problem? Be as specific as possible. Priority In your opinion, how important is this suggestion? High (MUST have), Medium (should have), Low (nice to have)) Thanks for participating! Steve

07-02-2007, 11:57 AM	#3
thbroman All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 867	1920s-1960s fictional/historical universe Steve, I can't fit this into your format yet, because I need help & advice from people on the forum who are more imaginative and knowledgeable about BB history than I. What I want to suggest is the implementation of league structures that more closely resembles the baseball universe of the the 1920s through 1960s, with more levels of minor leagues, independent minor leagues, purchase of contracts from those leagues, etc. It would require changing the free agent system to some extent, I think, but the real advantage would be to offer much more interesting scope for sending your scouts to look for raw talent in those bush leagues. Does Le Grande Orange or someone else who really knows the history have anything to suggest along these lines? Edit: I'm sorry, I see this may be misplaced in this thread. Go ahead and move or delete, at your will. MODERATOR EDIT Suggestion implementation of league structures that more closely resembles the baseball universe of the the 1920s through 1960s, with more levels of minor leagues, independent minor leagues, purchase of contracts from those leagues, etc. It would require changing the free agent system to some extent, I think, but the real advantage would be to offer much more interesting scope for sending your scouts to look for raw talent in those bush leagues. Reason offer much more interesting scope for sending your scouts to look for raw talent in those bush leagues Priority Medium Last edited by Raidergoo; 07-22-2007 at 12:08 AM. Reason: edit to show how this was entered into Excel

07-02-2007, 05:08 PM	#4
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	Suggestion Historically accurate post-season schedules, both for the World Series and other playoff rounds. Reason The game now has the proper historical regular season schedules for historical leagues, so it's time to get the post-season up to the same standard. It also provides more play challenges, since a World Series played entirely on consecutive days requires different managing by the game player than a World Series played under current-day rules, for example. I have an idea of how this could be done by using a schedule file system similar to how the regular season is handled. But I won't bore everyone with those details at the moment - I'll save that for when the suggestion is approved! Priority High, as far as I'm concerned. Last edited by Le Grande Orange; 07-02-2007 at 05:10 PM.

07-02-2007, 06:24 PM	#6
Comedian2004 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: In a house in Saint Cloud, Florida. Posts: 7,085	This falls hand in hand with the Lahman suggestion, but... Suggestion When importing historical players, make it easier than the way it is. You have to know the players Lahman ID. Reason Too difficult to set up an import a historical player! Priority Medium __________________ Like BLUES? Visit www.smokestacklightnin.com, you will LOVE it! New show every Monday!! New Blues HOF![/COLOR][/FONT]

08-13-2007, 07:38 PM	#14
Swimmer Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Castle Rock, Colorado Posts: 165	Suggestion: Allow for more levels of minor leagues Reason: Historically, there have been more than just the 5 levels presented. Levels B, C, and D were significant forces in small town life before radio and tv (particularly D). Priority: Medium __________________ People ask me what I do in the winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. --Rogers Hornsby

07-02-2007, 11:28 AM	#2
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	Suggestion Built-in Lahman, if you can get the lawyers to agree! Reason Still too difficult to set up an historical league! Priority High

07-03-2007, 02:38 PM	#8
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	Suggestion Recreate the impact that WWII and other conflicts had on the major league rosters by removing the players who left for military service from the game for the appropriate years. Reason This would allow a much more realistic recreation of the WWII and other war years in a historical league, as the players who missed major league playing time due to military service will also miss the same amount of time in the game as well. I have a file downloaded from SABR which lists all the major leaguers who served and for approximately how long, so that could be used to create a file which the game uses to determine which player to remove at what point and for how long. There would need to be some additions to the way the roster rules work in order to account for how the majors actually responded after WWII, but this should be too difficult a problem (hopefully). I would also make this "military service" recreation an option so the user could choose whether or not they wish to use this feature when they set up their historical league. Priority High - this option adds an important element of historical accuracy to the game.

07-04-2007, 08:35 PM	#9
Kivlehan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Allentown, PA Posts: 160	Suggestion Allow imports at 1871 with either adjustments made for pre 1901 data or caveats to users that their mileage may vary before 1901. Reason Because a historical sim doesn't feel complete unless I get to see Ross Barnes, Al Spalding, John Clarkson, Old Hoss Radbourn, et al playing their trade. Priority Medium (should have)

07-04-2007, 08:56 PM	#10
SandMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,946	Suggestion Allow import from Lahman to be normalized. This would be nice to have when importing players from different eras. Example - a player hits 4 homer runs in the deadball era, and would be considered above average. Another hitter hits 15 today and is an average hitter. When imported the first player would have a higher power rating. Ratings could be era based and then adjusted for the era, make all average players the same even though they have obviously different stats based on their era played..... Reason Nice to have when importing players from multiple seasons or from RANDOM DEBUT databases. Priority Low

07-05-2007, 07:34 PM	#11
AESP_pres Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Province of Quebec Posts: 4,108	Not sure if it's the good place for this sugestion, feel free to move it if it's belong to another place. Suggestion Import real manager for historical league. Reason they are in the Lahman database with their career stats and it will be better to start with the real manager of the team. I think that it will add more realism, it's seem funny to have black manager in 1901 when the black player can't play. Priority Medium (should have)

07-22-2007, 12:14 AM	#12
Raidergoo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,005	Processed to this point.

08-11-2007, 10:51 PM	#13
rwd59 All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: LA (Lower Alabama) Posts: 934	Suggestion: Change the way the games calculates salaries in a non-free agency league. As it is now all players recieve arbitration level salaries in every season except their first season being called up. First time call-ups are the only ones who make the minimum salary. Reason: This causes high payrolls with most teams losing money (all of them most of the time). It makes it almost impossible to trade when all teams are at a deficit. I started a couple of threads about this already. Priority: High (to me anyway)

08-14-2007, 03:58 PM	#15
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 16,514	Suggestion Allow real-life lineup and transaction files to be imported. Reason This feature would appeal to those who want to "mimic" history. It would also prevent the AI (or user) from overusing or underusing certain players. Priority Medium - inasmuch as it could entice DMBers to convert to OOTP.

08-14-2007, 04:04 PM	#16
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 16,514	Suggestion Impose overuse penalties. Reason This feature would dissuade the user (and AI, presumably) from overusing certain players during historical replays. Priority Low

08-14-2007, 04:13 PM	#17
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 16,514	Suggestion Increase the negative effect of using players "out of position" (i.e., somewhere other than their primary positions). Reason The AI too cavalierly moves players to positions other than their primary positions. It apparently does not take into consideration the impact of poor defense on the outcome of games. In my experience, the AI tries hard to create lineups that maximize OFFENSE, even if it means playing one or two (or several) players "out of position" defensively. Priority Medium - since it feels "phony"

08-14-2007, 04:18 PM	#18
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 16,514	Suggestion Tweak the lineup AI for choosing leadoff hitters. Reason Sometimes the AI chooses leadoff hitters who, though they have a high OBP, do not run very well. That's not ideal for a leadoff hitter. (Other times, they also have power ratings more suitable for the 3, 4, or 5 spots in the lineup.) Priority Low EDIT: Perhaps this suggestion belongs in a different category. Last edited by pstrickert; 08-14-2007 at 04:19 PM.

08-16-2007, 02:51 PM	#19
Raidergoo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,005	Processed.

08-16-2007, 07:20 PM	#20
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	Suggestion: Historically accurate spring training schedules. Reason: While the regular seasons for historical leagues use the real schedules, the spring training period is entirely created by OOTP. Why not bring the spring training schedules up to the same level of real-world accuracy? The spring training schedules of years past in the majors were quite different in character than those played currently, with some teams playing each other numerous times. I have onhand almost all of the actual MLB spring training schedules from the early 1930s onwards. While the earlier years might pose a few issues due to the spring training schedules featuring a lot of games against minor league opponents, certainly from the early 1950s onwards MLB spring training schedules played almost exclusively against other major league teams so they certainly could be used for historical leagues. Priority: Medium/High. (The regular season schedules are the proper real-world ones. I really want to get the spring training and post-season schedules up to that same standard of accuracy!)