Expiring Contracts Not Counting Towards Available Money

Qrashman · 05-20-2007, 01:35 AM

It was suggested I post this information here. I'll provide a link to the entire conversation instead of posting it over again. I can't imagine this hasnt been noticed, so either its a problem with converted leagues or it was purposely coded this way. All I know is it makes absolutely no sense why the money of expiring contracts is not available to extend contracts.

If this is purposely programmed this way, an explanation of how "available money for extensions" is calculated would be a huge help. This will be a huge problem with my online league, as teams do not have enough money available to re-sign their own players. Editing budgets is an option, but if this is supposed so be this way then I don't want to touch it.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=148027

Solonor · 05-20-2007, 09:37 AM

I followed the other thread, and I can see what you're saying. I can't calculate how much you have available, though, without seeing what your existing contracts are. Can you post your team's Player Salaries Report?

Qrashman · 05-20-2007, 02:48 PM

Here you go:

Solonor · 05-20-2007, 02:51 PM

What are the arbitration estimates on those players? (Actually, I'm not sure you can get a list of those like you could in 6.5, so I don't know if you can tell.)

Qrashman · 05-20-2007, 03:25 PM

I dont think there are arbitration estimates, but most of these players are nothing special. Guzman and Peek are really the only 2 impact players but they are already making major league type salaries.

None of these guys are the type that would make 10m in arbitration. Not enough to make up for the big discrepancy.

Nutlaw · 05-20-2007, 04:50 PM

You converted this league directly from 6.5, right? Was your 6.5 league at Opening Day when you did this? Is this the first season of the league that you are playing in 2007?

Qrashman · 05-20-2007, 09:50 PM

Yes, Yes and Yes.

sporr · 05-20-2007, 10:44 PM

That might be the problem. If memory serves, there's an issue with the available money estimates in the first season of conversion unless you do it on the first day after the World Series in OOTP 2006. Not sure if this applies to 6.5 conversions.

Qrashman · 05-21-2007, 12:33 AM

If its only gonna be a problem for one year, thats fine. How would you suggest I go about fixing this? Would editing the available budget mess anything else up? Does anyone know if it is supposed to count projected increases in gate revenue toward available money? Just want to know what everyone's available money SHOULD be so I can edit it correctly.

Solonor · 05-21-2007, 07:27 AM

Tested on a new fictional league in 2.0.2.53. I think it's either busted, a flawed design, or we just don't have all the info to calculate it right (though I can't see what we could be missing). TT#2612

Qrashman · 05-21-2007, 01:03 PM

I dont understand how this wasnt caught until now. This is one of those true rare "game-killers", dare I say.

So this is recreatable (sp?) in all leagues, newly created or converted? And it will happen every season, not just season #1?

Thx.

Solonor · 05-21-2007, 02:12 PM

Cannot say that it happens after year 1, but I was able to recreate it in a new fictional league. I don't think it's very hard to reproduce, because I don't think it's a "bug" per se...I think it was designed that way on purpose.

Available for extensions = Projected Budget Room + Cash.

Unfortunately, "Projected Budget Room" means taking last year's income less this year's payroll. It doesn't take into account potential increases in revenue or decreases in payroll.

On the potential increases, I agree. It shouldn't use predictions or estimates to allow you to spend more money. On the payroll thing, though, I disagree. If you know exactly how much money you're going to save in expired contracts, you need to have that available to re-sign existing players.

Qrashman · 05-21-2007, 03:27 PM

Agreed. I hope this can be fixed soon, but in the meantime I have to find a temporary fix.

If I add expiring contracts to the Current Budget field, is that going to mess anything up in the longrun?

LCS213 · 05-22-2007, 12:18 AM

The end result of this, my friends, is what I described in this post:
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=148102

Solonor · 05-22-2007, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LCS213

The end result of this, my friends, is what I described in this post:
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=148102

No, what you describe is a totally different problem. In this case, a GM doesn't have the money to spend--not because he spent it all, but because the game isn't allowing him to spend all that he should be able to. What you're describing is a problem with the entire league not having enough money to sign free agents for what they're asking and those free agents being stupid enough to sit out the season rather than play for the highest bidder.

You're problem might be a problem, but it's a different one. I haven't seen it happen, but I haven't tested for it. If I get a chance, I'll see if I can reproduce.

LCS213 · 05-22-2007, 09:41 PM

Yes, but the fact that the free agent pool is stuffed with players who couldn't be re-signed because the game miscalculated each team's financial situation IS a result of this, I would think.

LCS213 · 06-02-2007, 10:40 AM

And, as an extension of this problem, the game retired most of those free agents who missed a full season by not signing. Some of these players were 30-32 years old with 5 star ratings, in the primes of their careers.
To compensate, I unretired those players (had to deal with the double stats bug), and put them back in the free agent pool, where they only requested a 1 year deal for $490,000 or so. Again, they sat in the FA pool. So I went in commish mode, and signed them to teams in my division (to make winning the division more difficult). Two days later, they were put on Waivers and Designated for Assignment.

There's something wrong going on here, and in my opinion is something very much worth looking at.

Qrashman · 06-02-2007, 02:47 PM

Ouch, thats big. What is the "Double Stats Bug"?

injury log · 06-02-2007, 04:15 PM

If I understand redsoxford's recent post in Tech Support about unretired players, the game deletes most ratings for retired players when a game is saved (BABIP being an exception). It does keep stats, however. If you quit your game, for example, relaunched, and then unretired your players, it may be that they are no longer any good- ratings mostly 0s and 1s. Their statistical history might lead them to demand major league contracts, but their ratings might lead them to request close to the minimum, and would almost certainly lead teams to release them almost immediately.

LCS213 · 06-02-2007, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qrashman

Ouch, thats big. What is the "Double Stats Bug"?

This bug, which already has a TT#, is when you unretire a player, his career stats are duplicated. So the player ends up having DOUBLE his career stats. Of course that wreaks havoc on your league history. The only workaround to that problem is to export your league's stats, manually erase each duplicate entry, and re-import them into your league.

This whole chain of events is something that really needs to be addressed.

05-20-2007, 02:48 PM	#3
Qrashman All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NY Posts: 651	Here you go: __________________ ------------------- Montreal Expos / Calgary Storm, HBL HBL Baseball - Founded March 2001. HBL Waiting List

05-20-2007, 02:51 PM	#4
Solonor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Maine Posts: 4,459	What are the arbitration estimates on those players? (Actually, I'm not sure you can get a list of those like you could in 6.5, so I don't know if you can tell.) __________________ Solonor's Groovy Computer Baseball League - Making baseball a hobbit since 2003! "Beings will come, Frodo. The one constant through all the years has been baseball. Middle Earth has rolled by like an army of Mumakil. It has been erased like a slate, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Frodo. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... beings will come Frodo. Beings will most definitely come." - Gladden Field of Dreams

05-20-2007, 03:25 PM	#5
Qrashman All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NY Posts: 651	I dont think there are arbitration estimates, but most of these players are nothing special. Guzman and Peek are really the only 2 impact players but they are already making major league type salaries. None of these guys are the type that would make 10m in arbitration. Not enough to make up for the big discrepancy. __________________ ------------------- Montreal Expos / Calgary Storm, HBL HBL Baseball - Founded March 2001. HBL Waiting List

05-20-2007, 09:50 PM	#7
Qrashman All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NY Posts: 651	Yes, Yes and Yes. __________________ ------------------- Montreal Expos / Calgary Storm, HBL HBL Baseball - Founded March 2001. HBL Waiting List

05-21-2007, 12:33 AM	#9
Qrashman All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NY Posts: 651	If its only gonna be a problem for one year, thats fine. How would you suggest I go about fixing this? Would editing the available budget mess anything else up? Does anyone know if it is supposed to count projected increases in gate revenue toward available money? Just want to know what everyone's available money SHOULD be so I can edit it correctly. __________________ ------------------- Montreal Expos / Calgary Storm, HBL HBL Baseball - Founded March 2001. HBL Waiting List Last edited by Qrashman; 05-21-2007 at 12:34 AM.

05-20-2007, 01:35 AM	#1
Qrashman All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NY Posts: 651	Expiring Contracts Not Counting Towards Available Money It was suggested I post this information here. I'll provide a link to the entire conversation instead of posting it over again. I can't imagine this hasnt been noticed, so either its a problem with converted leagues or it was purposely coded this way. All I know is it makes absolutely no sense why the money of expiring contracts is not available to extend contracts. If this is purposely programmed this way, an explanation of how "available money for extensions" is calculated would be a huge help. This will be a huge problem with my online league, as teams do not have enough money available to re-sign their own players. Editing budgets is an option, but if this is supposed so be this way then I don't want to touch it. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=148027 __________________ ------------------- Montreal Expos / Calgary Storm, HBL HBL Baseball - Founded March 2001. HBL Waiting List Last edited by Qrashman; 05-20-2007 at 02:22 AM.

05-20-2007, 09:37 AM	#2
Solonor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Maine Posts: 4,459	I followed the other thread, and I can see what you're saying. I can't calculate how much you have available, though, without seeing what your existing contracts are. Can you post your team's Player Salaries Report? __________________ Solonor's Groovy Computer Baseball League - Making baseball a hobbit since 2003! "Beings will come, Frodo. The one constant through all the years has been baseball. Middle Earth has rolled by like an army of Mumakil. It has been erased like a slate, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Frodo. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... beings will come Frodo. Beings will most definitely come." - Gladden Field of Dreams

05-20-2007, 04:50 PM	#6
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	You converted this league directly from 6.5, right? Was your 6.5 league at Opening Day when you did this? Is this the first season of the league that you are playing in 2007?

05-20-2007, 10:44 PM	#8
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	That might be the problem. If memory serves, there's an issue with the available money estimates in the first season of conversion unless you do it on the first day after the World Series in OOTP 2006. Not sure if this applies to 6.5 conversions.

05-21-2007, 07:27 AM	#10
Solonor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Maine Posts: 4,459	Tested on a new fictional league in 2.0.2.53. I think it's either busted, a flawed design, or we just don't have all the info to calculate it right (though I can't see what we could be missing). TT#2612 __________________ Solonor's Groovy Computer Baseball League - Making baseball a hobbit since 2003! "Beings will come, Frodo. The one constant through all the years has been baseball. Middle Earth has rolled by like an army of Mumakil. It has been erased like a slate, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Frodo. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... beings will come Frodo. Beings will most definitely come." - Gladden Field of Dreams

05-21-2007, 01:03 PM	#11
Qrashman All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NY Posts: 651	I dont understand how this wasnt caught until now. This is one of those true rare "game-killers", dare I say. So this is recreatable (sp?) in all leagues, newly created or converted? And it will happen every season, not just season #1? Thx. __________________ ------------------- Montreal Expos / Calgary Storm, HBL HBL Baseball - Founded March 2001. HBL Waiting List

05-21-2007, 02:12 PM	#12
Solonor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Maine Posts: 4,459	Cannot say that it happens after year 1, but I was able to recreate it in a new fictional league. I don't think it's very hard to reproduce, because I don't think it's a "bug" per se...I think it was designed that way on purpose. Available for extensions = Projected Budget Room + Cash. Unfortunately, "Projected Budget Room" means taking last year's income less this year's payroll. It doesn't take into account potential increases in revenue or decreases in payroll. On the potential increases, I agree. It shouldn't use predictions or estimates to allow you to spend more money. On the payroll thing, though, I disagree. If you know exactly how much money you're going to save in expired contracts, you need to have that available to re-sign existing players. __________________ Solonor's Groovy Computer Baseball League - Making baseball a hobbit since 2003! "Beings will come, Frodo. The one constant through all the years has been baseball. Middle Earth has rolled by like an army of Mumakil. It has been erased like a slate, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Frodo. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... beings will come Frodo. Beings will most definitely come." - Gladden Field of Dreams

05-21-2007, 03:27 PM	#13
Qrashman All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NY Posts: 651	Agreed. I hope this can be fixed soon, but in the meantime I have to find a temporary fix. If I add expiring contracts to the Current Budget field, is that going to mess anything up in the longrun? __________________ ------------------- Montreal Expos / Calgary Storm, HBL HBL Baseball - Founded March 2001. HBL Waiting List

05-22-2007, 12:18 AM	#14
LCS213 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 170	The end result of this, my friends, is what I described in this post: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=148102

05-22-2007, 09:41 PM	#16
LCS213 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 170	Yes, but the fact that the free agent pool is stuffed with players who couldn't be re-signed because the game miscalculated each team's financial situation IS a result of this, I would think.

06-02-2007, 10:40 AM	#17
LCS213 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 170	And, as an extension of this problem, the game retired most of those free agents who missed a full season by not signing. Some of these players were 30-32 years old with 5 star ratings, in the primes of their careers. To compensate, I unretired those players (had to deal with the double stats bug), and put them back in the free agent pool, where they only requested a 1 year deal for $490,000 or so. Again, they sat in the FA pool. So I went in commish mode, and signed them to teams in my division (to make winning the division more difficult). Two days later, they were put on Waivers and Designated for Assignment. There's something wrong going on here, and in my opinion is something very much worth looking at.

06-02-2007, 02:47 PM	#18
Qrashman All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NY Posts: 651	Ouch, thats big. What is the "Double Stats Bug"? __________________ ------------------- Montreal Expos / Calgary Storm, HBL HBL Baseball - Founded March 2001. HBL Waiting List

06-02-2007, 04:15 PM	#19
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	If I understand redsoxford's recent post in Tech Support about unretired players, the game deletes most ratings for retired players when a game is saved (BABIP being an exception). It does keep stats, however. If you quit your game, for example, relaunched, and then unretired your players, it may be that they are no longer any good- ratings mostly 0s and 1s. Their statistical history might lead them to demand major league contracts, but their ratings might lead them to request close to the minimum, and would almost certainly lead teams to release them almost immediately.