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Old 05-22-2007, 05:22 PM   #1
MorseMoose
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High School Sports Requirements

This is just hilarious to me. The past week or two has seen an influx of articles in the Minneapolis newspaper. They are complaining about grade requirements to entry fees. Now, this is slightly more "inner city" than where I live, so I may be being a little harsh but...

He was academically ineligible to play football last fall because of a Minneapolis City Conference rule requiring students to have a 2.0 grade-point average -- a C average -- either cumulatively or for the quarter before playing a sport. The conference eligibility guidelines are more stringent than state requirements, and the toughest in the metro area.

Issue #1: The GPA requirement is a C average or 2.0.

http://www.startribune.com/526/story/1183606.html

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He was academically ineligible to play football last fall because of a Minneapolis City Conference rule requiring students to have a 2.0 grade-point average -- a C average -- either cumulatively or for the quarter before playing a sport. The conference eligibility guidelines are more stringent than state requirements, and the toughest in the metro area.
I'm sorry, but a C average? Going to high school is about school...not sports. Sure, sports can keep kids out of trouble. But if you can't get a C average, you must be doing something else. I know in high school we were required to get good grades (I don't remember the requirement, but I'd guess a C average).

They go on to talk about how this prevents kids from getting college scholarships because they can't play football. If they can't get a C average in high school, how in the world will they pass college?

Issue #2: In Minneapolis, there is a $70 participation fee.

http://www.startribune.com/507/story/1194479.html

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Participation fee also hurts

Then there is a participation fee of $70 to play football. According to Henry coach Roger French, students there can't afford it. There is a fee of $90 for hockey, and maybe this is a reason why the city high schools don't dominate in that sport. Last season, there were only two public high school hockey programs in Minneapolis.

"They don't have an opportunity to show their wares," said French, who is recovering from a hip operation. "I've got kids that are really good football players, but they can't come out because they can't afford it."
HAHAHAHAHAHAH. This really makes me laugh. At my high school, you had to pay over $200 to play football. Over $300 to play hockey. Over $200 to be in freaking Marching Band. $70? Give me a break!

Also, if I'm not mistaken, if you are on the free/reduce lunch program, you get a discount on your entry fee too. PUHLEEEAAZZZZ!
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Old 05-22-2007, 05:28 PM   #2
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HAHAHAHAHAHAH. This really makes me laugh. At my high school, you had to pay over $200 to play football. Over $300 to play hockey. Over $200 to be in freaking Marching Band. $70? Give me a break!
Y'know, $70 is a lot of money to some people.
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Old 05-22-2007, 05:30 PM   #3
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So what are the requirements/fees at your area school?

I just check online (here) and it is $290 to play football.
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Old 05-22-2007, 05:37 PM   #4
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We didn't have to pay anything to play football at my school. And I went to one of the poorest school districts in Columbus (Groveport Madison).
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Old 05-22-2007, 05:44 PM   #5
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Beats me, but I don't have to worry about that for another ten years or so, by which time any info I dig up will be out-of-date.
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Old 05-22-2007, 05:49 PM   #6
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So what are the requirements/fees at your area school?


They are what they should be, zero, nada, zilch!
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Old 05-22-2007, 10:05 PM   #7
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Y'know, $70 is a lot of money to some people.
"

A 2.0 isn't a cakewalk for some people, either. And those people are the ones who will be having the most miserable time in HS already. Take away sports on top of that and meet your newest dropout.

The goal of HS isn't to send everyone to college, either. Teachers like to think that, but a lot of times if you can get a kid to graduate and get him a full-time job, that's a major victory.

Last edited by Prodigal Son; 05-22-2007 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 05-22-2007, 10:13 PM   #8
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We had to mantain a 2.5 GPA to play any sort of sports or participate in any sort of non-school activity
But I went to a private HS who more or less was able to make their own rules
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Old 05-22-2007, 10:18 PM   #9
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We had to mantain a 2.5 GPA to play any sort of sports or participate in any sort of non-school activity
But I went to a private HS who more or less was able to make their own rules
And students at private schools are about 20 times better equipped to get a 2.5 GPA than students at inner-city public schools.
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Old 05-22-2007, 11:29 PM   #10
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If they can't get a C average in high school, how in the world will they pass college?
If they're a good enough athlete? Easily.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAH. This really makes me laugh. At my high school, you had to pay over $200 to play football. Over $300 to play hockey. Over $200 to be in freaking Marching Band. $70? Give me a break!
I'm not sure if this is the case in every school, but.. my former high school certainly makes money off of it's football program. Heck, the Thansgiving Day rivalry game with the next town over brings in enough to support the program itself. Luckily my old high school doesn't have the audacity to require a fee on top of the profit they turn off the sport.
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Old 05-22-2007, 11:33 PM   #11
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My high school is on a 5.0 and up GPA scale (5.0 for honors students, everybody else is under a 5). To play, you have to be passing 5 classes, and your GPA can't be below 2.0.

For fees, until a few years ago, it was $40 per sport, unless you were a three sport athlete, then the spring sport was free. Now it's $140 unless you have a waiver stating why you can't afford that.
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Old 05-22-2007, 11:36 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Prodigal Son View Post
And students at private schools are about 20 times better equipped to get a 2.5 GPA than students at inner-city public schools.


You would think so, but we constantly had to fill in holes on our football, baseball, swimming, soccer and girls teams to make up for players who had to miss four weeks for 'bad' GPAs
The curriculum I am assuming was also alot more difficult.

The entire school was pretty anal about grades.
If you got below a 2.0 during any 4 week period you were put on academic probation and had to attend 8 hours a week of extra study hall and tutoring.
If you got below a 1.5 GPA you were placed on academic warning and if you did not get above a 1.5 GPA for the semester you were dissmissed from the school.
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Old 05-23-2007, 03:15 AM   #13
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And students at private schools are about 20 times better equipped to get a 2.5 GPA than students at inner-city public schools.
Whoa. Bizzaro world post from the Prodigal One! I actually agree with him and its based on socio-economic principles! Am I drunk?
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Old 05-23-2007, 03:27 AM   #14
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To reply to the original post-
At my school, most sports were $25. Hockey was $40, but you had to bring your own gear. Somehow, the football team got new stuff every year, while we had to fund raise for new jerseys and still got charged more. Whatever, those football players are all hosers anyway.

The idea of sports alongside public education is obstenibly to give the students something else within the school realm they can feel connected to. Numerous studies have shown that this feeling tends to improve classroom performance. I've personally witnessed this-I've had kids who are awesome during the season, and crap at all other times. I've also noticed that the kids who I coach in hockey improve greatly just knowing I'm in the building and if hear of any issues, they will have a rough night at practice-the principal can't skate 'em until they puke, but I can.

If I recall, the MSHSL rule is for a 1.5 GPA, I know we had to make a 2.0 for hockey and I only know one kid who ever got named ineligible.

But I can definately see some instances where a Special Needs kid could be considered successful with a D average (and the odd C). Even with accomodations, this is a realistic grade for them to get-but really, if they are in a situation where their GPA matters, the parents should really advocate for a Pass/Fail option on their IEP.

Also, high school kids are different than elementary kids. Yes, elementary kids have their whole worlds in front of them. Some of these high school kids might be raising their elementary aged siblings (or kids, i guess). They are old enough to have very adult issues in their lives, and coming up with $70 or making a 2.0 might be the thing that makes it all unbearable. And the free/reduced lunch thing is often underreported, for any number of reasons.

I think its a shame for the reaction towards this to be that the people negatively impacted by these policies should be able to figure something out. Why say that its ridiculous they are making it an issue when it'd be just as easy to look at it all and figure out a solution that brings us to our main goal of creating new generations of successful individuals and citizens? (And yes, I honestly thinkg Sports and other co-curricular activities pay a major role in this)
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Old 05-23-2007, 12:21 PM   #15
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I think its a shame for the reaction towards this to be that the people negatively impacted by these policies should be able to figure something out.
!

The whole idea of being poor is that you don't have $70 to drop on non-essential items! For a single parent or a low wage-earner trying to support a family, $70 is a car payment, or a week's worth of groceries, or school supplies and some clothes, or any number of things that are more important than a sports participation fee. I'm really not exaggerating when I say that, with our family situation when I was in HS, $70 was a lot of money. A lot. Like...we'd live for an entire week off of $70. Getting $70 to drop on a sports fee would require saving up to pay it or borrowing it, and it would require sacrifices to afford it.

I'm rather disappointed that it's the teacher out of the group who is criticizing the complaints about fees. Teachers are supposed to be well aware of the effects of poverty among students.
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Old 05-23-2007, 06:54 PM   #16
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!

The whole idea of being poor is that you don't have $70 to drop on non-essential items! For a single parent or a low wage-earner trying to support a family, $70 is a car payment, or a week's worth of groceries, or school supplies and some clothes, or any number of things that are more important than a sports participation fee. I'm really not exaggerating when I say that, with our family situation when I was in HS, $70 was a lot of money. A lot. Like...we'd live for an entire week off of $70. Getting $70 to drop on a sports fee would require saving up to pay it or borrowing it, and it would require sacrifices to afford it.

I'm rather disappointed that it's the teacher out of the group who is criticizing the complaints about fees. Teachers are supposed to be well aware of the effects of poverty among students.


What I think is bad is that they're complaining about $70 when surrounding areas are paying over four times that. My parents paid around $15000 (and that is just for high school) for extra-curricular sports. My parents were paying something like $600 a semester.

It's more of the complaining about having to pay $70 when everyone else pays way more. To play sports, $70 is a huge freaking bargain. I'm sorry, but you're right...you have to make sacrifices. Sports is EXTRA-curricular. A student is required school, to play sports is extra. If you are doing something extra, you should be held accountable for your school - because THAT is what they're at school for.

I'm sorry that that is the way I feel. Because I'm a teacher should have nothing to do with my opinion. My opinion is no greater than yours, don't make it seem like it should be.
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Old 05-23-2007, 07:04 PM   #17
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Wow, I had no idea people actually had to pay to play sports in HS. I graduated from HS in 98 and I played Baseball, Basketball, Football, Wrestling and threw Shot and Discus in track and field. I never paid a dime. I think it's a sham that they have school taxes, federal and state funds and yet they want to charge people to play sports...?

Then again, our football and basketball teams sold out every game. We drew about 1,700-2,200 fans on average every Friday night. So, I'm sure we paid for our participation in other ways. At 5 bucks a pop, that's a nice chunk the school got every Friday during the Fall. We even got to take chartered buses with TV's, Radios and the works to away games. No extra charge. /shrugs

I just assumed that was the average high school football experience.

Last edited by avwjase; 05-23-2007 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 05-23-2007, 07:21 PM   #18
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What I think is bad is that they're complaining about $70 when surrounding areas are paying over four times that. My parents paid around $15000 (and that is just for high school) for extra-curricular sports. My parents were paying something like $600 a semester.
Having not read the entire article, I'll just take Minneapolis North High School as an example. In the area around this high school (Zip Code 55411), the per capita income level is $11,427, and 27% of the families are below the poverty level. High school graduates are 70.5% (80.4% nationally) and bachelor's holders are 13%(24.4% nationally)

Edit to add relevant informationThe article talks mostly about Patrick Henry High School, which is in the same general area, with similar characteristics: ~$16,000 per capita income, 12.6% of families below the povery line. Even more telling are the number of people with high school and bachelor's degrees (national rates in parenthesis) High school: 78.3% (80.4%) Bachelor's: 17.6% (24.4%)

Compared to Hennepin county as a whole, which includes the city of Minneapolis and many suburbs, the per capita income is $33,047. Only 7% of the total families in the county lie below the poverty line. For education; HS: 92% (80.4%) Bachelors: 43.6% (24.4%)

Obviously, these two areas are depressed economically, making the fee a struggle. Moreover, there is a much lower likelyhood compared to the national average that these kids will have good academic support at home to aide them in gaining the C average needed. Its even more shocking when compared to the rest of the county-remember those county wide numbers include the lower areas listed above, but are countered by Cities like Edina, where 58.5% (!!!!!!!) of people hold bachelor's degrees or higher.


As a comparision, the US nationwide stats for the same period are per capita income of $25,035, while 10.2% of families lie below the poverty line.

Obviously, for those in the neighborhood around North HS, a $70 fee would be a much higher percentage of income than for someone say, in Wayzata or Plymouth. Thats the point everyone's trying to make here. Without checking, I'm sure that off the top of my head, most of the city public High Schools would have similiar income averages, except for maybe Southwest which is a pretty ritzy neighborhood and abuts Robbinsdale and Edina.
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It's more of the complaining about having to pay $70 when everyone else pays way more. To play sports, $70 is a huge freaking bargain. I'm sorry, but you're right...you have to make sacrifices. Sports is EXTRA-curricular. A student is required school, to play sports is extra. If you are doing something extra, you should be held accountable for your school - because THAT is what they're at school for.
A deal for you, maybe. Obviously, your parents could afford it, or it wouldn't have happened. Don't make the mistake of assuming that becuase your parents made it work, others can.

As far as extra curriculars being extra, yes, they are. But they also serve a very important role in the total education of a child and should be as accesible as possible to all. Its a fact (if you want reports, I can link them later) that children in sports or the arts achieve higher and have a much higher reported rate of attendance and overall satisfaction with school. These are real, tangible numbers that increase the effectiveness of primary and secondary education which should not be ignored because someone can't come up with a certain amount of money.
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I'm sorry that that is the way I feel. Because I'm a teacher should have nothing to do with my opinion. My opinion is no greater than yours, don't make it seem like it should be.
Sorry, but it does have everything to do with your opinion now, because your only option from here forward is to advocate the best you can for all of your students, even the ones who are poor. The fact that you are a teacher also means many things for your life-you have to make choices and maybe bite your toungue sometimes because you are a teacher-and not just in class. You are now considered a major part of the community and everyone does look at you differently because you are in charge of their kids for more of the waking day than the parents are.

Last edited by piperclap; 05-23-2007 at 07:34 PM. Reason: Added more info
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Old 05-23-2007, 07:52 PM   #19
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If you are doing something extra, you should be held accountable for your school - because THAT is what they're at school for.
So in a public school you're ok with poor kids not being able to afford any extracurricular activities, in other words.

As for rolling your eyes at me, grow up. If you want to talk about these issues, I'll talk, as I enjoy talking about them. If you want to act like one of the grade schoolers that you teach, then I'm not too interested in wasting my time.
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Old 05-23-2007, 09:45 PM   #20
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I don't think a person's GPA is necessarily indicative of their ability to be a productive human being, but if you can't maintain a C average in high school I suspect you have bigger problems than not being able to play a sport.

On the other hand, I think the fees are silly. Maybe things have changed, but when I was in school we had fundraisers to help pay for sports (in additon to the usual practice of the school district allocating 96% of the local school taxes for athletics). As long as people have to pay school taxes, I can't support public schools charging fees for stuff.
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