BUG (2.0.2.50) - Trade AI - Can easily rip off computer teams (Was closed - but still not fixed)

dim13 · 05-05-2007, 01:14 PM

This was reported (TT 3385) and claimed as fixed, but was not actually fixed for 2.0.2.50 (patch 2 - beta). The list of changes for the latest patch includes (- Improved trade AI) which I though was this.

See my previous post:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=146215

The example I posted seems to work OK now, but the bug/flaw is still occurring. Here's another example AFTER patch 2 beta (2.0.2.50 Build 50):

- I want to acquire (CF) Alberto Scheffler from the 'Palos Park Mice'.

1) I offered (3B) Samual Carda for (CF) Alberto Scheffler - 'Complete Trade' button is ghosted.
- screenshot: ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/1.JPG (UserName: ftp-public password: public)

2) I add a 2nd player from the other team to acquire (3B) Mohammed Hove - 'Complete Trade' button is now activated and I can complete the trade if I wanted to. (contrary to my first attempt).
- screenshot: ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/2.JPG

3) I can proceed to acquire 10 players total (contrary to my first attempt) for my 1 player with the 'Complete Trade' button activated.
- screenshot: ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/3.JPG

- The player I am offering, (3B) Samual Carda, is really bad, see ratings:
- screenshot: ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/4.JPG

NOTES: Commissioner Mode is turned OFF, Finance/Salary turned OFF.
- I also tried to trade (3B) Samual Carda for (CF) Alberto Scheffler straight up - hitting the 'Submit' button. The proposal was rejected.

I uploaded my data files: ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/dim3.zip

To reproduce this bug:

Go to the trade screen (my teams is called 'Mikloshville Crows' - Level 10 League). Select the 'Palos Park Mice' to trade with.

1) Offer (3B) Samual Carda for (CF) Alberto Scheffler - 'Complete Trade' button will be ghosted out

2) Offer (3B) Samual Carda for (CF) Alberto Scheffler AND (3B) Mohammed Hove- 'Complete Trade' button will be activated.

3) You can then add 8 more good players to acquire - not any player you want, but alot of them.

Version: 2.0.2.50
PC/MAC: PC
Commissioner Mode: OFF

League files uploaded: ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/dim3.zip

Supporting screenshots:
ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/1.JPG
ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/2.JPG
ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/3.JPG
ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/4.JPG

Nutlaw · 05-05-2007, 10:13 PM

I have marked this issue as not fixed and returned it for consideration to the coders. Thanks for your diligence, dim13.

dim13 · 05-05-2007, 10:39 PM

Thank you for looking into this.

Markus Heinsohn · 05-08-2007, 08:37 AM

This only can happen when the players involved have very very low ratings, so it is extremely rare. Sorry, no way to easily fix this...

dim13 · 05-08-2007, 10:43 AM

OK, thank you for looking into it.

Just as a note, this wasn't a problem in OOTP65. I had players with very low ratings and never came across anything like this in trades.

dim13 · 05-08-2007, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

This only can happen when the players involved have very very low ratings, so it is extremely rare. Sorry, no way to easily fix this...

I ran some tests and found that this exists with players with higher rating involved in the trade also.

Nutlaw · 05-09-2007, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dim13

I ran some tests and found that this exists with players with higher rating involved in the trade also.

How high a rating?

dim13 · 05-09-2007, 08:56 PM

Here's an example with player with much higher ratings involved:

(CF) Marlon Sicho - (49-67-76-61-45) Potential: (47-68-73-58-44) (4/4 stars)

(MR) Peter Mencl - (66-80-41) Potential: (64-82-42) (4/4 stars)
(SP) Hung Cathey - (54-29-48) Potential: (55-30-49) (1/1 star)

To simulate - I uploaded my data files:
- ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save...w/dim13New.zip

Supporting screenshots:
- ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/1New.JPG
- ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/2New.JPG
- ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/3aNew.JPG
- ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/4New.JPG
- ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/5New.JPG

(UserName: ftp-public, Password: public)

- I am managing the 'Jasper Dragsters' (Level 1 League)
- I trade with the 'Renfrew Continentals' (Level 1 League)
- everything else same as example above (Commissioner mode off, etc)

1) Offer (CF) Marlon Sicho for (MR) Peter Mencl - 'Complete Trade' button will be ghosted out.
- see: ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/1New.JPG
- If you hit 'Submit Offer' button - you'll get a 'NO WAY' email as a result.

2) Offer (CF) Marlon Sicho for (MR) Peter Mencl AND (SP) Hung Cathey- 'Complete Trade' button will be activated.
- see: ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/2New.JPG

Player Ratings (none are considered low):

(CF) Marlon Sicho
ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/3aNew.JPG

(MR) Peter Mencl
ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/4New.JPG

(SP) Hung Cathey
ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/5New.JPG

- Submitting (CF) Marlon Sicho for (MR) Peter Mencl straight up (without involving (SP) Hung Cathey) the trade was refused (got a 'NO WAY' email). But if I add (SP) Hung Cathey to the trade from the other team - the 'Complete Trade' button is activated and I can complete the trade.

- For players to acquire, If I had added (SP) Hung Cathey first in the list, and then added (MR) Peter Mencl second - the 'Complete Trade' button remains activated and I have absolutely no way off knowing that I am ripping off the computer team. I only can realize this if I had the players swapped - (MR) Peter Mencl first and then added (SP) Hung Cathey - for players to acquire from the other team.

- You can substitute the following players from the other team (in place of (MR) Peter Mencl), and repeat steps (1) and (2) above with the same flaw/results - this problem still exists:
- (SP) B.Iller
- (SS) I.Kectan
- (LF) S.Hug

Version: 2.0.2.50
PC/MAC: PC
Commissioner Mode: OFF

** I really hope Markus reads this example to let him know it's not just happening with players with very low ratings (as he stated). This example shows that it happens with all players, regardless of ratings. This is a major flaw that I really hope can be corrected at some point.

injury log · 05-10-2007, 10:44 AM

The trade AI seems to assign negative value to some players- fair enough for underperforming major leaguers with bloated contracts, but guys with minor league contracts should never have negative value since they cost nothing. I also find it unrealistic that it is sometimes easy to acquire ten players for one in a trade; I can't think of a recent MLB deal with more than four players going for one.

dim13 · 05-10-2007, 11:52 AM

In my case (and example above), I have finances turned off and there are no bloated contracts or any contracts for that matter.

Nutlaw · 05-10-2007, 06:37 PM

I don't want to pester the guy, but I sent the TT back to Markus for another look given your further study.

Markus Heinsohn · 05-11-2007, 06:45 AM

OK, I looked into it. Trading Cathey clears room for SP Auffrey who is currently in AAA. Auffrey is the slightly better pitcher, and the only reason why he isn't in the majors instead of Cathey is that the roster AI has a patience buffer to avoid constant shuffling. So, this is an example that the AI is actually working perfectly

dim13 · 05-11-2007, 11:00 AM

Markus, thank you again for looking into this.

Why doesn't the AI just release (SP) Cathey to make room for (SP) Auffrey ? (It's hurting itself by adding negative value to the trade with (SP) Cathey). I can see if he had a big contract, but I have finances/salaries turned off and money isn't an issue.

When adding (SP) Cathey, why not give him a zero value to the trade, instead of a negative trade value.

The end result is I'm getting (MR) Peter Mencl for (CF) Marlon Sicho, which I shouldn't be able to do, just by doing the AI team a favor by picking up (SP) Cathey (who I can just release myself after the trade if I choose). My original offer of (MR) Peter Mencl for (CF) Marlon Sicho was rejected.

The AI may be working properly - but the flaw/loophole is still there and can be exploited, and can be exploited unknowingly (if I had (SP) Cathey listed first in the trade).

Mets Man · 05-17-2007, 11:56 PM

I'm gonna have to agree with dim13 on this one. Its not a question of whether the AI wants to get rid of the guy or not. The main issue is that the AI should not be assigning "negative value" to the player they want to get rid of if that player has no financial consequence to the team they are contracted to (ie. minor league players with minor league contracts).

Ask yourself, why should the AI give you an advantage in trade negotiations for taking a player off their hands, if they could just as easily just release this player without having to give anything in return?

The only time a player should be assigned a "negative value" is if the player has a major league contract that exceeds his performance and/or ability. In other words, if the player is overpaid.

Deadweight is not deadweight if the player has a minor league contract. Remember, minor league contracts cost the team nothing in OOTP. Likewise, releasing a minor league contract cost nothing either.

falkonisback · 05-21-2007, 01:19 PM

Does anyone know if this issue has been corrected with the full version of the patch? I have not tried it yet.

injury log · 05-21-2007, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falkonisback

Does anyone know if this issue has been corrected with the full version of the patch? I have not tried it yet.

It may have been adjusted, but not 'corrected'. I find the easiest way to recreate the issue is by shopping around an average or below average player. I'll invariably be offered several A-ball starters with minor league contracts, and can then reproduce the 'bug' by adding players to the trade. I've just done this now: I'm shopping 2-star starter Felipe Rangel, and Tampa offers 22y AA starter Goncalvo Estudante, who has a minor league contract. So far, so good. I then ask for rookie ball reliever Sixto Rivas, a decent prospect, in addition to Estudante. Tampa still accepts. I then remove Goncalvo Estudante from the trade, leaving only Rivas- Tampa should be happier to do the deal, because they're giving up less, and Estudante doesn't cost them anything- but now they won't accept the deal. This is with the latest patch, trading set to 'Hard' and 'Heavily Favor Prospects'.

So, it appears Estudante has negative value to Tampa, even though they could release him at no cost. No reason for them to give me Rivas just to take Estudante off their hands. Because of this game behaviour, it makes me think that, in order for 'Shop Player' to work in a realistic way (so that it's possible to shop mediocre players and get any response at all), some minor leaguers do need to have negative value. I'd guess that, when you shop someone around who isn't all that good, all of the minor leaguers offered have negative value to their own team in the trade AI. In this sense, the behaviour might be partly intentional; it enables the shop player function, while making some trading behaviour a bit illogical.

dim13 · 05-21-2007, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falkonisback

Does anyone know if this issue has been corrected with the full version of the patch? I have not tried it yet.

This has NOT been corrected with the full version of the patch. I've tried it the example I posted and submitted (see post #8 in this thread) and it is still happening.

NomarHits400 · 05-22-2007, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dim13

This has NOT been corrected with the full version of the patch. I've tried it the example I posted and submitted (see post #8 in this thread) and it is still happening.

Saying that he doesn't have time to look at this for 2007 is one thing- but it really makes me uneasy that Markus will not acknowledge this as a problem (an easily avoidable one- but a problem nonetheless)....I really don't get it at all. How could this be any more obvious?

Mets Man · 05-22-2007, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NomarHits400

Saying that he doesn't have time to look at this for 2007 is one thing- but it really makes me uneasy that Markus will not acknowledge this as a problem (an easily avoidable one- but a problem nonetheless)....I really don't get it at all. How could this be any more obvious?

My sentiments exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

OK, I looked into it. Trading Cathey clears room for SP Auffrey who is currently in AAA. Auffrey is the slightly better pitcher, and the only reason why he isn't in the majors instead of Cathey is that the roster AI has a patience buffer to avoid constant shuffling. So, this is an example that the AI is actually working perfectly

I don't agree with Markus' justification of the problem as a "design decision" because frankly it doesn't make any sense. I understand the AI wanting to get rid of a player to make room for another, but the method at which the AI goes about doing it is completely flawed. The AI should just release this player if it wants to clear room, or have him be traded, but just don't assign any (negative) value to this player. The AI SHOULD NOT BE giving you something extra for taking this player off his hands.

I have a bad feeling that the real problem is that he "can't" fix it, at least without a major overhaul of the how the AI operates. It was mentioned in this thread and another thread that this problem had "no easy fix"

Here's the other thread with the same problem:
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...=146215&page=2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

OK, I looked into it. Trading Cathey clears room for SP Auffrey who is currently in AAA. Auffrey is the slightly better pitcher, and the only reason why he isn't in the majors instead of Cathey is that the roster AI has a patience buffer to avoid constant shuffling. So, this is an example that the AI is actually working perfectly

I sort of understand Markus' response to this issue as I probably wouldn't want to admit that a particular aspect of my product is "broken" for this version and "won't/can't be fixed" and just leave it at that. What could/should you say? This is not a knock on Markus as I believe he's probably done as much as he could on this issue. However, its still disappointing nevertheless, that he couldn't find a fix for this. It is worth noting that Markus himself did say earlier in this thread that there was no easy fix for this, however I just didn't understand his later response that was sort of justifying the problem as a "design decision".

The main issue from what I gather appears to have something to do with how Markus created the AI evaluation for trades. Apparantly, it seems that this "negative value" assigned to certain players (who shouldn't have a negative value) is a manifestation or "side effect" of another aspect of the AI. Somebody mentioned that the AI uses this "negative value" somehow in the proper functioning of the "Shop Player" feature. Simply removing the negative value from these players could cause another aspect of the AI to not function properly (ie. Shop Player) - fix one, break another. I don't know the validity of these findings, but it seems to be the only logical reason why something like this could not be fixed.

Mets Man · 05-22-2007, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

OK, I looked into it. Trading Cathey clears room for SP Auffrey who is currently in AAA. Auffrey is the slightly better pitcher, and the only reason why he isn't in the majors instead of Cathey is that the roster AI has a patience buffer to avoid constant shuffling. So, this is an example that the AI is actually working perfectly

After reading Markus' words more carefully (3rd time quoting it, I better be getting it

) I think you could read into this as meaning that perhaps the "too many players being released/shuffled in the minors" problem was fixed by adding this "patience buffer". The teams simply don't release these players to clear room because of this "patience buffer" (so you don't see the AI constantly promoting/demoting/releasing players in the minors as you saw in previous OOTP versions). This patience buffer is the reason why these players are being assigned negative values.

If my speculation (or interpretation of Markus' words) is true, then we may have a bigger problem than we thought. The solution to the release/shuffling issue (and perhaps even the sign & release issue) could possibly be cosmetic in nature. In this case, the release problem wasn't really fixed (if my speculation is true). The AI still wants to get rid of these players (release/shuffle), however because of this "cosmetic patience buffer" the AI just chooses not to, so it could appear to be realistic to you.

Is this really what we want? Yeah sure, it appears on the surface that the release issues are gone, but in reality, the AI has not changed its attitude/opinion or decision making logic, it merely was given a superficial inhibitor (patience buffer) so it chooses not to release these players even though it is logical to do so (according to the AI).

This patience buffer needs to have reasoning or a logical reason not to release/shuffle these players. That is the way it should be working to fix the release problem properly.

Assigning negative values to minor leaguers is a product of this "patience buffer". By artificially making the AI patient via the patience buffer, its caused the AI to make illogical decisions in trades with certain minor leaguers.

Remember, take note that all this is speculation and I could be misinterpreting things. However, it does have me concerned.

05-05-2007, 01:14 PM	#1
dim13 Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: tucson, az Posts: 344	BUG (2.0.2.50) - Trade AI - Can easily rip off computer teams (Was closed - but still not fixed) This was reported (TT 3385) and claimed as fixed, but was not actually fixed for 2.0.2.50 (patch 2 - beta). The list of changes for the latest patch includes (- Improved trade AI) which I though was this. See my previous post: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=146215 The example I posted seems to work OK now, but the bug/flaw is still occurring. Here's another example AFTER patch 2 beta (2.0.2.50 Build 50): - I want to acquire (CF) Alberto Scheffler from the 'Palos Park Mice'. 1) I offered (3B) Samual Carda for (CF) Alberto Scheffler - 'Complete Trade' button is ghosted. - screenshot: ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/1.JPG (UserName: ftp-public password: public) 2) I add a 2nd player from the other team to acquire (3B) Mohammed Hove - 'Complete Trade' button is now activated and I can complete the trade if I wanted to. (contrary to my first attempt). - screenshot: ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/2.JPG 3) I can proceed to acquire 10 players total (contrary to my first attempt) for my 1 player with the 'Complete Trade' button activated. - screenshot: ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/3.JPG - The player I am offering, (3B) Samual Carda, is really bad, see ratings: - screenshot: ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/4.JPG NOTES: Commissioner Mode is turned OFF, Finance/Salary turned OFF. - I also tried to trade (3B) Samual Carda for (CF) Alberto Scheffler straight up - hitting the 'Submit' button. The proposal was rejected. I uploaded my data files: ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/dim3.zip To reproduce this bug: Go to the trade screen (my teams is called 'Mikloshville Crows' - Level 10 League). Select the 'Palos Park Mice' to trade with. 1) Offer (3B) Samual Carda for (CF) Alberto Scheffler - 'Complete Trade' button will be ghosted out 2) Offer (3B) Samual Carda for (CF) Alberto Scheffler AND (3B) Mohammed Hove- 'Complete Trade' button will be activated. 3) You can then add 8 more good players to acquire - not any player you want, but alot of them. Version: 2.0.2.50 PC/MAC: PC Commissioner Mode: OFF League files uploaded: ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/dim3.zip Supporting screenshots: ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/1.JPG ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/2.JPG ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/3.JPG ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/4.JPG Last edited by dim13; 05-05-2007 at 02:52 PM.

05-11-2007, 11:00 AM	#13
dim13 Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: tucson, az Posts: 344	Markus, thank you again for looking into this. Why doesn't the AI just release (SP) Cathey to make room for (SP) Auffrey ? (It's hurting itself by adding negative value to the trade with (SP) Cathey). I can see if he had a big contract, but I have finances/salaries turned off and money isn't an issue. When adding (SP) Cathey, why not give him a zero value to the trade, instead of a negative trade value. The end result is I'm getting (MR) Peter Mencl for (CF) Marlon Sicho, which I shouldn't be able to do, just by doing the AI team a favor by picking up (SP) Cathey (who I can just release myself after the trade if I choose). My original offer of (MR) Peter Mencl for (CF) Marlon Sicho was rejected. The AI may be working properly - but the flaw/loophole is still there and can be exploited, and can be exploited unknowingly (if I had (SP) Cathey listed first in the trade). Last edited by dim13; 05-12-2007 at 11:03 AM.

05-05-2007, 10:13 PM	#2
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	I have marked this issue as not fixed and returned it for consideration to the coders. Thanks for your diligence, dim13.

05-05-2007, 10:39 PM	#3
dim13 Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: tucson, az Posts: 344	Thank you for looking into this.

05-08-2007, 08:37 AM	#4
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,805	This only can happen when the players involved have very very low ratings, so it is extremely rare. Sorry, no way to easily fix this...

05-08-2007, 10:43 AM	#5
dim13 Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: tucson, az Posts: 344	OK, thank you for looking into it. Just as a note, this wasn't a problem in OOTP65. I had players with very low ratings and never came across anything like this in trades.

05-09-2007, 08:56 PM	#8
dim13 Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: tucson, az Posts: 344	Here's an example with player with much higher ratings involved: (CF) Marlon Sicho - (49-67-76-61-45) Potential: (47-68-73-58-44) (4/4 stars) (MR) Peter Mencl - (66-80-41) Potential: (64-82-42) (4/4 stars) (SP) Hung Cathey - (54-29-48) Potential: (55-30-49) (1/1 star) To simulate - I uploaded my data files: - ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save...w/dim13New.zip Supporting screenshots: - ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/1New.JPG - ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/2New.JPG - ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/3aNew.JPG - ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/4New.JPG - ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/5New.JPG (UserName: ftp-public, Password: public) - I am managing the 'Jasper Dragsters' (Level 1 League) - I trade with the 'Renfrew Continentals' (Level 1 League) - everything else same as example above (Commissioner mode off, etc) 1) Offer (CF) Marlon Sicho for (MR) Peter Mencl - 'Complete Trade' button will be ghosted out. - see: ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/1New.JPG - If you hit 'Submit Offer' button - you'll get a 'NO WAY' email as a result. 2) Offer (CF) Marlon Sicho for (MR) Peter Mencl AND (SP) Hung Cathey- 'Complete Trade' button will be activated. - see: ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/2New.JPG Player Ratings (none are considered low): (CF) Marlon Sicho ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/3aNew.JPG (MR) Peter Mencl ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/4New.JPG (SP) Hung Cathey ftp://ftp.sigames.com/ootp/game-save/dim13New/5New.JPG - Submitting (CF) Marlon Sicho for (MR) Peter Mencl straight up (without involving (SP) Hung Cathey) the trade was refused (got a 'NO WAY' email). But if I add (SP) Hung Cathey to the trade from the other team - the 'Complete Trade' button is activated and I can complete the trade. - For players to acquire, If I had added (SP) Hung Cathey first in the list, and then added (MR) Peter Mencl second - the 'Complete Trade' button remains activated and I have absolutely no way off knowing that I am ripping off the computer team. I only can realize this if I had the players swapped - (MR) Peter Mencl first and then added (SP) Hung Cathey - for players to acquire from the other team. - You can substitute the following players from the other team (in place of (MR) Peter Mencl), and repeat steps (1) and (2) above with the same flaw/results - this problem still exists: - (SP) B.Iller - (SS) I.Kectan - (LF) S.Hug Version: 2.0.2.50 PC/MAC: PC Commissioner Mode: OFF ** I really hope Markus reads this example to let him know it's not just happening with players with very low ratings (as he stated). This example shows that it happens with all players, regardless of ratings. This is a major flaw that I really hope can be corrected at some point. Last edited by dim13; 05-10-2007 at 10:34 AM.

05-10-2007, 10:44 AM	#9
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	The trade AI seems to assign negative value to some players- fair enough for underperforming major leaguers with bloated contracts, but guys with minor league contracts should never have negative value since they cost nothing. I also find it unrealistic that it is sometimes easy to acquire ten players for one in a trade; I can't think of a recent MLB deal with more than four players going for one.

05-10-2007, 11:52 AM	#10
dim13 Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: tucson, az Posts: 344	In my case (and example above), I have finances turned off and there are no bloated contracts or any contracts for that matter.

05-10-2007, 06:37 PM	#11
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	I don't want to pester the guy, but I sent the TT back to Markus for another look given your further study.

05-11-2007, 06:45 AM	#12
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,805	OK, I looked into it. Trading Cathey clears room for SP Auffrey who is currently in AAA. Auffrey is the slightly better pitcher, and the only reason why he isn't in the majors instead of Cathey is that the roster AI has a patience buffer to avoid constant shuffling. So, this is an example that the AI is actually working perfectly

05-17-2007, 11:56 PM	#14
Mets Man Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 336	I'm gonna have to agree with dim13 on this one. Its not a question of whether the AI wants to get rid of the guy or not. The main issue is that the AI should not be assigning "negative value" to the player they want to get rid of if that player has no financial consequence to the team they are contracted to (ie. minor league players with minor league contracts). Ask yourself, why should the AI give you an advantage in trade negotiations for taking a player off their hands, if they could just as easily just release this player without having to give anything in return? The only time a player should be assigned a "negative value" is if the player has a major league contract that exceeds his performance and/or ability. In other words, if the player is overpaid. Deadweight is not deadweight if the player has a minor league contract. Remember, minor league contracts cost the team nothing in OOTP. Likewise, releasing a minor league contract cost nothing either.

05-21-2007, 01:19 PM	#15
falkonisback All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Iberia, Louisiana Posts: 869	Does anyone know if this issue has been corrected with the full version of the patch? I have not tried it yet.