Should this not be a save?

zukes · 04-23-2007, 07:05 PM

Mississauga Marauders 1-2-1-0-1-1-0-0-0 - 6-9-1
London Stingrays -----2-3-1-3-1-3-5-0-X - 18-18-1

Pitchers:
London:

R. Boutillier 5.0IP, 7H, 5R, 4ER, 2BB, 3K (given the win)
M. Delisle 4.0IP, 2H, 1R, 1ER, 0BB, 3K (given nothing)

Save rules from mlb.com

"10.19 Saves For Relief Pitchers
A save is a statistic credited to a relief pitcher, as set forth in this Rule 10.19.
The official scorer shall credit a pitcher with a save when such pitcher meets all four of the following conditions:
(a) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his team;
(b) He is not the winning pitcher;
(c) He is credited with at least of an inning pitched; and
(d) He satisfies one of the following conditions:
(1) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning;
(2) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batters he faces); or
(3) He pitches for at least three innings."

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info..._scorer_10.jsp

sixto · 04-23-2007, 07:07 PM

I'd say yes.

zukes · 04-23-2007, 07:41 PM

That's what I was thinking. Is this an error in the game? I've had other 3 inning blow out saves (I'm kind of a save monger).

Joshv02 · 04-23-2007, 07:45 PM

Before this year, you had to pitch effectively for three innings. This year, the rules changed -- but it doesn't look like OOTP's rules chagned.

Effectively, apparently, means without giving up a run.

Ohh, and see: http://ootpdevelopments.com/board/sh...d.php?t=145516

Cras · 04-24-2007, 08:38 AM

credit him with a save. He passes the criteria in my eyes.

zukes · 04-24-2007, 08:45 AM

Even with the old rule, I would argue that giving up 1 run over 4 innings is "efffective".

Jose Cardenal's Afro · 04-24-2007, 10:52 AM

This should have been a save.

kroney37 · 04-24-2007, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zukes

Mississauga Marauders 1-2-1-0-1-1-0-0-0 - 6-9-1
London Stingrays -----2-3-1-3-1-3-5-0-X - 18-18-1

Nice team names... Are the rest of the league in Ontario as well?

Garrett67 · 04-25-2007, 12:24 AM

A save is a statistic credited to a relief pitcher, as set forth in this Rule 10.19.
The official scorer shall credit a pitcher with a save when such pitcher meets all four of the following conditions:
(a) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his team;
He Finished the game
(b) He is not the winning pitcher;
He was not the winning pitcher, they had a 5 run lead when he came in.
(c) He is credited with at least of an inning pitched; and
He was credited for 4 innings
(d) He satisfies one of the following conditions:

(1) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning;
(2) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batters he faces); or
(3) He pitches for at least three innings."
He satisfied #3 by pitching 4 innings.
M. Delisle 4.0IP, 2H, 1R, 1ER, 0BB, 3K (given nothing)

I am saying its a save.

DougWyatt · 04-25-2007, 12:51 AM

I spose according to the rules, as given, it is a save.

But. Personally I don't think pitching 1/2 a game in a blow out *should* be a save.

zukes · 04-25-2007, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kroney37

Nice team names... Are the rest of the league in Ontario as well?

All across Canada. It is a league that mirrors the MLB all the way down to rookie ball, but all of the teams are located in Canada.

I will post my set up later if people are interested.

zukes · 04-25-2007, 10:29 AM

I can't remember all of the nicknames of the top of my head, I may edit later. I stole some names (from junior hockey, former ball teams etc) others I made up.

WESTERN LEAGUE

BC Division

Vancouver Canadians
Victoria Monarchs
Nanaimo Keys
Kelowna Ogopogos

Alberta Division

Calgary Wranglers
Edmonton Greasers
Red Deer Deer Hunters
Lethbridge Hurricanes
Fort McMurray Fury

Prairie Division

Saskatoon River Otters
Regina Bats
Winnipeg Jets
Thunder Bay Eclipse
Sudbury Miners

EASTERN LEAGUE

SWO Division

London Stingrays
Guelph Thunder
Kitchener Keggers
Sarnia Rapids
Windsor Stealth

Eastern Division

Toronto Blue Jays
Montreal Mammoth
Ottawa Federals
Mississauga Marauders
Hamilton Steel Dogs
St. Catharines Uglies

Quebec/Maritimes Division

Quebec City Magic
Halifax Mooseheads
Sherbrooke Spirit
St. John's Saints
Moncton Moonmen

zukes · 04-25-2007, 10:33 AM

All of these teams have between 5 and 7 minor league affiliates that are geographically nearby to the big league city. It's funny to see Happy Valley/Goose Bay, Newfoundland have to travel to some Vancouver suburb for rookie league ball.

Mattingly06 · 04-25-2007, 10:45 AM

I could be wrong but I think you have to be in a save situation when you throw 3 effective innings to get the save. Your reliever entered the game when the score was 10-5 so I don't think he gets credit for the save (unless you're SP walked a few guys that inning and put the tying run on deck). I could be wrong though...

EDIT- This is incorrect, I just found a boxscore proving it wrong.

reds1 · 04-25-2007, 10:46 AM

Nevermind.

zukes · 04-25-2007, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattingly06

I could be wrong but I think you have to be in a save situation when you throw 3 effective innings to get the save. Your reliever entered the game when the score was 10-5 so I don't think he gets credit for the save (unless you're SP walked a few guys that inning and put the tying run on deck). I could be wrong though.

I have had other blowouts end in saves, usually though it's when a guy goes 3 innings and only 3 innings. I wonder if the 4 innings has somethign to do with it?

Jazzmosis · 04-25-2007, 11:12 AM

That's the thing; they've got to pitch only 3 innings. 4 is too much - I dunno why, but it works that way in the big leagues too.

Mattingly06 · 04-25-2007, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zukes

I have had other blowouts end in saves, usually though it's when a guy goes 3 innings and only 3 innings. I wonder if the 4 innings has somethign to do with it?

My last post was inaccurate, I edited it.

You may be on to something with innings pitched.

zukes · 04-25-2007, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzmosis

That's the thing; they've got to pitch only 3 innings. 4 is too much - I dunno why, but it works that way in the big leagues too.

That's weird because the last rule says "pitches at least three innings"

Cras · 04-25-2007, 12:35 PM

There have been 4 inning saves. I saw one back in the late 90's. Keith Foulke pitched a 4 inning save for the White Sox.

04-23-2007, 07:05 PM	#1
zukes All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London, Ont. Canada Posts: 1,106	Should this not be a save? Mississauga Marauders 1-2-1-0-1-1-0-0-0 - 6-9-1 London Stingrays -----2-3-1-3-1-3-5-0-X - 18-18-1 Pitchers: London: R. Boutillier 5.0IP, 7H, 5R, 4ER, 2BB, 3K (given the win) M. Delisle 4.0IP, 2H, 1R, 1ER, 0BB, 3K (given nothing) Save rules from mlb.com "10.19 Saves For Relief Pitchers A save is a statistic credited to a relief pitcher, as set forth in this Rule 10.19. The official scorer shall credit a pitcher with a save when such pitcher meets all four of the following conditions: (a) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his team; (b) He is not the winning pitcher; (c) He is credited with at least of an inning pitched; and (d) He satisfies one of the following conditions: (1) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; (2) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batters he faces); or (3) He pitches for at least three innings." http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info..._scorer_10.jsp Last edited by zukes; 04-23-2007 at 07:40 PM. Reason: to make it easier to read

04-23-2007, 07:45 PM	#4
Joshv02 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: , " Posts: 3,082	Before this year, you had to pitch effectively for three innings. This year, the rules changed -- but it doesn't look like OOTP's rules chagned. Effectively, apparently, means without giving up a run. Ohh, and see: http://ootpdevelopments.com/board/sh...d.php?t=145516 __________________ Brookline Maccabees. RIP

04-24-2007, 08:38 AM	#5
Cras Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: LEO Posts: 3,789	credit him with a save. He passes the criteria in my eyes. __________________ The Chicago White Sox 1906, 1917, 2005 World Series Champions 1900, 1901, 1906, 1917, 1919, 1959, 2005 American League Champions 2000, 2005, 2008 American League Central Division Champions 1983, 1993 American League West Division Champions OOTP \| Orbiter \| SSMS \| FSX \| LoL \| MLP:FIM!

04-25-2007, 12:24 AM	#9
Garrett67 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Union City, Michigan Posts: 282	A save is a statistic credited to a relief pitcher, as set forth in this Rule 10.19. The official scorer shall credit a pitcher with a save when such pitcher meets all four of the following conditions: (a) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his team; He Finished the game (b) He is not the winning pitcher; He was not the winning pitcher, they had a 5 run lead when he came in. (c) He is credited with at least of an inning pitched; and He was credited for 4 innings (d) He satisfies one of the following conditions: (1) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; (2) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batters he faces); or (3) He pitches for at least three innings." He satisfied #3 by pitching 4 innings. M. Delisle 4.0IP, 2H, 1R, 1ER, 0BB, 3K (given nothing) I am saying its a save. Last edited by Garrett67; 04-25-2007 at 12:29 AM.

04-25-2007, 10:29 AM	#12
zukes All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London, Ont. Canada Posts: 1,106	I can't remember all of the nicknames of the top of my head, I may edit later. I stole some names (from junior hockey, former ball teams etc) others I made up. WESTERN LEAGUE BC Division Vancouver Canadians Victoria Monarchs Nanaimo Keys Kelowna Ogopogos Alberta Division Calgary Wranglers Edmonton Greasers Red Deer Deer Hunters Lethbridge Hurricanes Fort McMurray Fury Prairie Division Saskatoon River Otters Regina Bats Winnipeg Jets Thunder Bay Eclipse Sudbury Miners EASTERN LEAGUE SWO Division London Stingrays Guelph Thunder Kitchener Keggers Sarnia Rapids Windsor Stealth Eastern Division Toronto Blue Jays Montreal Mammoth Ottawa Federals Mississauga Marauders Hamilton Steel Dogs St. Catharines Uglies Quebec/Maritimes Division Quebec City Magic Halifax Mooseheads Sherbrooke Spirit St. John's Saints Moncton Moonmen Last edited by zukes; 04-25-2007 at 10:07 PM. Reason: corrected teams and names

04-23-2007, 07:07 PM	#2
sixto Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,271	I'd say yes.

04-23-2007, 07:41 PM	#3
zukes All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London, Ont. Canada Posts: 1,106	That's what I was thinking. Is this an error in the game? I've had other 3 inning blow out saves (I'm kind of a save monger).

04-24-2007, 08:45 AM	#6
zukes All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London, Ont. Canada Posts: 1,106	Even with the old rule, I would argue that giving up 1 run over 4 innings is "efffective".

04-24-2007, 10:52 AM	#7
Jose Cardenal's Afro Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Limbo Posts: 374	This should have been a save.

04-25-2007, 12:51 AM	#10
DougWyatt All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,117	I spose according to the rules, as given, it is a save. But. Personally I don't think pitching 1/2 a game in a blow out should be a save.

04-25-2007, 10:33 AM	#13
zukes All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London, Ont. Canada Posts: 1,106	All of these teams have between 5 and 7 minor league affiliates that are geographically nearby to the big league city. It's funny to see Happy Valley/Goose Bay, Newfoundland have to travel to some Vancouver suburb for rookie league ball.

04-25-2007, 10:45 AM	#14
Mattingly06 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 45	I could be wrong but I think you have to be in a save situation when you throw 3 effective innings to get the save. Your reliever entered the game when the score was 10-5 so I don't think he gets credit for the save (unless you're SP walked a few guys that inning and put the tying run on deck). I could be wrong though... EDIT- This is incorrect, I just found a boxscore proving it wrong. Last edited by Mattingly06; 04-25-2007 at 11:16 AM. Reason: incorrect statement

04-25-2007, 10:46 AM	#15
reds1 Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 3,981	Nevermind. __________________ United Leagues of Braeland Last edited by reds1; 04-25-2007 at 10:50 AM. Reason: I can't read boxscores

04-25-2007, 11:12 AM	#17
Jazzmosis All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2004 Location: The London you've never heard of Posts: 505	That's the thing; they've got to pitch only 3 innings. 4 is too much - I dunno why, but it works that way in the big leagues too. __________________ Florida Marlins GM, Netsports League - 2004 NL Champs, 2008 + 2013 Champions, 2004, 2009-2015, 2017-2021, 2024-2028 NLE Division Crown Mark Jazzington's Managerial Career - worth a read Thanks to Tib for the inspiration to write it.

04-25-2007, 12:35 PM	#20
Cras Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: LEO Posts: 3,789	There have been 4 inning saves. I saw one back in the late 90's. Keith Foulke pitched a 4 inning save for the White Sox. __________________ The Chicago White Sox 1906, 1917, 2005 World Series Champions 1900, 1901, 1906, 1917, 1919, 1959, 2005 American League Champions 2000, 2005, 2008 American League Central Division Champions 1983, 1993 American League West Division Champions OOTP \| Orbiter \| SSMS \| FSX \| LoL \| MLP:FIM!