Running a pitcher into the ground.

DBR · 01-04-2007, 04:05 PM

I was just wondering if you pitch a guy in too many games or too many innings will it affect them as the season goes on? As you can see below, I pasted the player profile for one of my pitchers. He has unreal ratings, unreal stats, but the numbers below are his numbers at the All Star break. My team has been hot the past 2 months of the season and I have a good chance to make the playoffs. If I go into the playoffs, or it is a tight race at the end of the season, I really cannot afford to lose this guy because my 2 closers "Brian Fuentes, and Huston Street" have not been playing up to their potential this year. Is there any way the game treats overused players?

Bluenoser · 01-04-2007, 04:09 PM

He'll be tired more often.

Tired players are more susceptible to injury.

ajsas01 · 01-04-2007, 04:09 PM

I don't have an answer to your question, but how can a guy with that kind of pitching talent only be ranked as a 58 overall?

DBR · 01-04-2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajsas01

I don't have an answer to your question, but how can a guy with that kind of pitching talent only be ranked as a 58 overall?

Thats why I never look at overall raitings when I make deals. They are pretty much useless IMHO.

statfreak · 01-04-2007, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajsas01

I don't have an answer to your question, but how can a guy with that kind of pitching talent only be ranked as a 58 overall?

ENDURANCE... it is only a 40 and brings down the overall rating.

zekester91 · 01-04-2007, 04:20 PM

Really really strong pitching league....

Overall and potental are taken aganst a league average.

DBR · 01-04-2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceM

He'll be tired more often.

Tired players are more susceptible to injury.

Gotcha.... Ill just have to limit his innings or something in the second half..... I do have starters that log a lot of innings, but, he was nice to have going 2-3 innings in every other game he pitched.

DBR · 01-04-2007, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zekester91

Really really strong pitching league....

Overall and potental are taken aganst a league average.

The funny thing is, its not really a pitching heavy league. I mean there are some guys with decent raitings, but he is rated by far the best. I have Johan Santana and his raitings aren't even close.

zekester91 · 01-04-2007, 04:45 PM

Then I'm going with the Endurance thing, also.

Getch · 01-04-2007, 05:09 PM

It's endurance. In OOTP 6.0, there was a bug where the engine would ignore endurance in evaluating overall talent. It, instead, would go by piching role. You could go to a computer player's team, take their best pitcher, and convert him to a releiver, and trade for him for much less than he was worth.

In OOTP 6.5, they changed it to factor the player's endurance in overall rating, so you couldn't exploit the bug (that's why you'll see average relievers be 5 blue stars when their endurance is high).

Looks like they carried it over into OOTP 06, and it makes some sense. Even though the guy is prolly the best reliever in the league, you wouldn't trade the best hitter for him. Not sure if he's better or worse than a 58 overall hitter, but it's a safeguard in place for the AI to properly evaluate the worth of relievers.

DBR · 01-04-2007, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Getch

Even though the guy is prolly the best reliever in the league, you wouldn't trade the best hitter for him. Not sure if he's better or worse than a 58 overall hitter, but it's a safeguard in place for the AI to properly evaluate the worth of relievers.

IMHO, I probably wouldn't trade him in a deal unless I was getting somebody HUGE back in the deal. If you can get a reliever who is on pace for 150+ innings with numbers like this, he becomes much more valuable.

Curtis · 01-04-2007, 09:42 PM

And, hey! He's a spray hitter. You've gotta love that.

ajsas01 · 01-07-2007, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Getch

It's endurance. In OOTP 6.0, there was a bug where the engine would ignore endurance in evaluating overall talent. It, instead, would go by piching role. You could go to a computer player's team, take their best pitcher, and convert him to a releiver, and trade for him for much less than he was worth.

In OOTP 6.5, they changed it to factor the player's endurance in overall rating, so you couldn't exploit the bug (that's why you'll see average relievers be 5 blue stars when their endurance is high).

Looks like they carried it over into OOTP 06, and it makes some sense. Even though the guy is prolly the best reliever in the league, you wouldn't trade the best hitter for him. Not sure if he's better or worse than a 58 overall hitter, but it's a safeguard in place for the AI to properly evaluate the worth of relievers.

I see what you're saying. I suppose in a perfect world, we could have it where the overall rating relates to how good someone is at their listed position, with a flexible rating in case someone did try to switch them to starter, AND the computer being smart enough to know that an amazing releiver is still not as valuable as a decent positional starter.

Maybe in ootp '07

Curtis · 01-07-2007, 01:11 PM

Slightly off topic: In a recent statistical thread one of the 2007 beta testers calculated that in real life a higher endurance correlates to more appearances per season for starting pitchers (and thus fewer rest days between starts). This makes a lot of sense to me, and is in fact how Strat-o-Matic handled it.

I've recently been reading some baseball autobiographies, and Sparky Lyle says that, even though he considered himself a two inning pitcher (really 1-3 innings, but two on average), he was at his best when he pitched four or five times a week. Any less and he couldn't get into a rythm. He LIKED pitching three or four days in a row, and thought he was better in the third and fourth days.

Should there be only one endurance stat for starters — dictating both length and frequency of use — and two for relievers? Right now relievers get tired after only pitching one day, which hardly seems right to me.

Raidergoo · 01-07-2007, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBR

I was just wondering if you pitch a guy in too many games or too many innings will it affect them as the season goes on?

I believe Markus has written that there is a form of Pitcher Abuse Points calculated.

Overusing a pitcher voids the warranty.

Khrog · 01-09-2007, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBR

Thats why I never look at overall raitings when I make deals. They are pretty much useless IMHO.

Definitely endurance. My very first OOTP 2006 league had a pitcher in the Mexico Leagues that was unreal(and I had to have) 98-100MPH, 95-99 ratings across the board, and a ~55-58 Endurance depending on the scout. His overall rating was in the low 50s, but he was the most dominant starting pitcher in the league. He averaged about 6.5 IP a game or maybe slightly less which sometimes led to his bullpen blowing the lead for him often enough to affect things, but when he was on it was lights out.

I've never gone back and finished his career(started new leagues), but he has a career ERA of around 1.50 with a personal best of .97 while pitching ~210 innings after 12 or 13 seasons.

So, yep, Endurance.

Slapstick · 01-10-2007, 01:02 PM

Why would endurance affect his ratings when he is a reliever? 40 endurance is pretty darn good for a reliver as far as I have seen. In my league, Joe Nathan has a 25 endurance rating but is rated in the mid 60's overall. His ratings are high, but not even close to that high.

zekester91 · 01-10-2007, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slapstick

Why would endurance affect his ratings when he is a reliever? 40 endurance is pretty darn good for a reliver as far as I have seen. In my league, Joe Nathan has a 25 endurance rating but is rated in the mid 60's overall. His ratings are high, but not even close to that high.

It was set up that way for people who complained that it was too easy to change a midline starter to a reliver (which before the change would then jump his ratings through the roof) then trade him as a blue chipper for either a real blue chipper or a lot of good talent. Markus is always trying to help us not cheet the game. See post #10 above

01-07-2007, 01:11 PM	#14
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	Slightly off topic: In a recent statistical thread one of the 2007 beta testers calculated that in real life a higher endurance correlates to more appearances per season for starting pitchers (and thus fewer rest days between starts). This makes a lot of sense to me, and is in fact how Strat-o-Matic handled it. I've recently been reading some baseball autobiographies, and Sparky Lyle says that, even though he considered himself a two inning pitcher (really 1-3 innings, but two on average), he was at his best when he pitched four or five times a week. Any less and he couldn't get into a rythm. He LIKED pitching three or four days in a row, and thought he was better in the third and fourth days. Should there be only one endurance stat for starters — dictating both length and frequency of use — and two for relievers? Right now relievers get tired after only pitching one day, which hardly seems right to me. Last edited by Curtis; 01-07-2007 at 01:13 PM.

01-04-2007, 04:05 PM	#1
DBR Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 178	Running a pitcher into the ground. I was just wondering if you pitch a guy in too many games or too many innings will it affect them as the season goes on? As you can see below, I pasted the player profile for one of my pitchers. He has unreal ratings, unreal stats, but the numbers below are his numbers at the All Star break. My team has been hot the past 2 months of the season and I have a good chance to make the playoffs. If I go into the playoffs, or it is a tight race at the end of the season, I really cannot afford to lose this guy because my 2 closers "Brian Fuentes, and Huston Street" have not been playing up to their potential this year. Is there any way the game treats overused players?

01-04-2007, 04:09 PM	#2
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,544	He'll be tired more often. Tired players are more susceptible to injury.

01-04-2007, 04:09 PM	#3
ajsas01 Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Saline, MI Posts: 441	I don't have an answer to your question, but how can a guy with that kind of pitching talent only be ranked as a 58 overall?

01-04-2007, 04:20 PM	#6
zekester91 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,122	Really really strong pitching league.... Overall and potental are taken aganst a league average.

01-04-2007, 04:45 PM	#9
zekester91 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,122	Then I'm going with the Endurance thing, also.

01-04-2007, 05:09 PM	#10
Getch All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 868	It's endurance. In OOTP 6.0, there was a bug where the engine would ignore endurance in evaluating overall talent. It, instead, would go by piching role. You could go to a computer player's team, take their best pitcher, and convert him to a releiver, and trade for him for much less than he was worth. In OOTP 6.5, they changed it to factor the player's endurance in overall rating, so you couldn't exploit the bug (that's why you'll see average relievers be 5 blue stars when their endurance is high). Looks like they carried it over into OOTP 06, and it makes some sense. Even though the guy is prolly the best reliever in the league, you wouldn't trade the best hitter for him. Not sure if he's better or worse than a 58 overall hitter, but it's a safeguard in place for the AI to properly evaluate the worth of relievers. Last edited by Getch; 01-04-2007 at 05:13 PM.

01-04-2007, 09:42 PM	#12
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	And, hey! He's a spray hitter. You've gotta love that.

01-10-2007, 01:02 PM	#17
Slapstick Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 16	Why would endurance affect his ratings when he is a reliever? 40 endurance is pretty darn good for a reliver as far as I have seen. In my league, Joe Nathan has a 25 endurance rating but is rated in the mid 60's overall. His ratings are high, but not even close to that high.