The SEC is disgustingly overrated

marc · 10-08-2006, 01:25 AM

If I have to hear about the SEC defenses one more time I'm gonna puke. Did anyone ever stop to think that the reason the SEC games are low scoring is because the QB play is absolutely horrendous? By far the worst QB's reside in the SEC (with the exception of Leak, but Florida can remain out of this topic entirely because they are a legit top 3 team).

I'm not saying that the SEC is bad, hell it's probably the top conference this year from top to bottom but when people act like it's so superior to the other conferences it's absolutely comical.

Auburn and LSU would lose ATLEAST 2 games in the Big Ten and probably 3. Florida is clearly legit, and Tennesse is good but the 3 most overrated teams in CFB reside in the SEC in Auburn, LSU, and Georgia.

Everyone was just slobbering over this conference because they had 4 top 10 teams, well of course they do, they don't play any tough OOC opponents EVER!!!! The SEC is notorious for their pathetic OOC schedules (again leave Florida out of this). So yeah while their conference has good depth to it and the conference schedule is tough, when you play Southern, Grambling, and Mid Tennessee State as your OOC schedule, it's not exactly going to kill you to lose a few conference games.

Ok, that's my rant for the day.

CBLCardinals · 10-08-2006, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc

If I have to hear about the SEC defenses one more time I'm gonna puke. Did anyone ever stop to think that the reason the SEC games are low scoring is because the QB play is absolutely horrendous? By far the worst QB's reside in the SEC (with the exception of Leak, but Florida can remain out of this topic entirely because they are a legit top 3 team).

So you think the following QB's are awful? (stats as of Oct 6th)
TEN - Ainge, 1389 Passing yards 2006. Ranked 7th in NCAA
LSU - Russell, 1246 Passing yards 2006. Ranked 13th in NCAA
ALA - Wilson, 1153 Passing yards 2006. Ranked 22nd in NCAA.
FLO- Leak, 1240 Passing yards 2006 (* you did mention him, but lets list him anyway) Ranked 14th in NCAA.
KEN - Woodson, 1197 Passing yards 2006. Ranked 18th in NCAA.
SC - Mitchell & Newton combined - ~ 1,028 Passing Yards.

Top QB Recruits for 06 per Rivals.com
Arkansas - Mustain 5 Star
Florida - Tebow 5 Star
Georgia - Stafford 5 Star
Ole Miss - Schaffer 5 Star

CBLCardinals · 10-08-2006, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc

I'm not saying that the SEC is bad, hell it's probably the top conference this year from top to bottom but when people act like it's so superior to the other conferences it's absolutely comical.

Auburn and LSU would lose ATLEAST 2 games in the Big Ten and probably 3. Florida is clearly legit, and Tennesse is good but the 3 most overrated teams in CFB reside in the SEC in Auburn, LSU, and Georgia.

To be fair, I do agree with you on all the above posts

Bobbuttons · 10-08-2006, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBLCardinals

Wow

One would think you would look up facts before making such a post. Can you name which conference per Rivals.com scored FOUR 5 star QB recruits during 2006? (hint- they play somewhere in the South.....)

Arkansas - Mustain 5 Star
Florida - Tebow 5 Star
Georgia - Stafford 5 Star
Ole Miss - Schaffer 5 Star

So you think the following QB's are awful as well? (stats as of Oct 6th)
TEN - Ainge, 1389 Passing yards 2006. Ranked 7th in NCAA
LSU - Russell, 1246 Passing yards 2006. Ranked 13th in NCAA
ALA - Wilson, 1153 Passing yards 2006. Ranked 22nd in NCAA.
FLO- Leak, 1240 Passing yards 2006 (* you did mention him, but lets list him anyway) Ranked 14th in NCAA.
KEN - Woodson, 1197 Passing yards 2006. Ranked 18th in NCAA.
SC - Mitchell & Newton combined - ~ 1,028 Passing Yards.

Would look up more stats - but no reason to at this point.

I believe marc is comparing the QBs based on their numbers against top rated opponents instead of some of the more cupcake teams on the schedule (such as not a whole lot can be made of Troy Smith's 17-20 191yd 3 TD performance Saturday as it was against BGSU.. we already know that Troy is a really good QB.... he should put up solid numbers against such an inferior opponent). Assuming that is what marc is trying to do, I will play Devil's Advocate and look at the QBs mentioned above and how they played against the higher ranked teams so far this year... I'm kind of curious to see how they did.

Ainge (TEN)
CAL (W35-18): 11-18 291yds 4 TD 1 INT Rating: 259.14
FLA (L21-20) 17-32 183yds 0 TD 2 INT Rating: 88.66
@GA (W51-33) 25-38 269yds 2 TD Rating: 142.62

Russell (LSU)
@AUB (L7-3) 20-35 269yds 0 TD 0 INT Rating: 121.71
@FLA (L23-10) 24-41 225yds 1 TD 3 INT Rating: 98.05

Wilson (ALA)
@ARK (L24-23) 16-20 243yds 3 TD 0 INT Rating: 231.56
@FLO (L28-13) 21-40 240yds 0 TD 3 INT Rating: 87.90

Woodson (KEN)
@LOU (L59-28) 9-24 231yds 3 TD 0 INT Rating: 159.60
@FLA (L26-7) 26-37 210yds 1 TD 0 INT Rating: 126.87
SC (L24-17) 18-32 286yds 1 TD 1 INT Rating: 135.39

Mitchell (SC)
GA (L18-0) 16-22 156yds 0 TD 0 INT Rating: 132.29

Newton (SC)
AUB (L24-17) 21-35 240yds 2 TD 1 INT Rating: 130.74
@KEN (W24-17) 14-22 168yds 0 TD 1 INT Rating: 118.69

I left out Leak, because I guess it has been established in this thread that he deserves some credit. But looking over the rest of the QBs, Ainge and Woodson have looked reasonably good against good competition. The rest have been inconsistent. That's not to say that they should be considered some of the worst in any conference in the country, but I certainly wouldn't trumpet them around as big game QBs (with the exception of Leak and possibly Ainge and Woodson).

Big Willis 16 · 10-08-2006, 05:44 AM

When you can throw 9-24 in a game and have a 159.60 rating, that's saying something. I don't know what....but it's saying something.

marc · 10-08-2006, 06:32 AM

CBL you're proving my point, they racked up those numbers against 1-AA teams for crying out loud. Watch an actual SEC conference game, the QB play is just awful.

Using stats at this point in the season isn't very telling as most teams haven't gotten into the bulk of their conference schedules yet. Lots of teams have pretty looking stats because they haven't played many good teams yet or some teams have a good looking SOS (Notre Dame) because they play teams like Purdue that started 4-0 and probably still won't make it to a bowl game.

marc · 10-08-2006, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobbuttons

I believe marc is comparing the QBs based on their numbers against top rated opponents instead of some of the more cupcake teams on the schedule (such as not a whole lot can be made of Troy Smith's 17-20 191yd 3 TD performance Saturday as it was against BGSU.. we already know that Troy is a really good QB.... he should put up solid numbers against such an inferior opponent). Assuming that is what marc is trying to do, I will play Devil's Advocate and look at the QBs mentioned above and how they played against the higher ranked teams so far this year... I'm kind of curious to see how they did.

Ainge (TEN)
CAL (W35-18): 11-18 291yds 4 TD 1 INT Rating: 259.14
FLA (L21-20) 17-32 183yds 0 TD 2 INT Rating: 88.66
@GA (W51-33) 25-38 269yds 2 TD Rating: 142.62

Russell (LSU)
@AUB (L7-3) 20-35 269yds 0 TD 0 INT Rating: 121.71
@FLA (L23-10) 24-41 225yds 1 TD 3 INT Rating: 98.05

Wilson (ALA)
@ARK (L24-23) 16-20 243yds 3 TD 0 INT Rating: 231.56
@FLO (L28-13) 21-40 240yds 0 TD 3 INT Rating: 87.90

Woodson (KEN)
@LOU (L59-28) 9-24 231yds 3 TD 0 INT Rating: 159.60
@FLA (L26-7) 26-37 210yds 1 TD 0 INT Rating: 126.87
SC (L24-17) 18-32 286yds 1 TD 1 INT Rating: 135.39

Mitchell (SC)
GA (L18-0) 16-22 156yds 0 TD 0 INT Rating: 132.29

Newton (SC)
AUB (L24-17) 21-35 240yds 2 TD 1 INT Rating: 130.74
@KEN (W24-17) 14-22 168yds 0 TD 1 INT Rating: 118.69

I left out Leak, because I guess it has been established in this thread that he deserves some credit. But looking over the rest of the QBs, Ainge and Woodson have looked reasonably good against good competition. The rest have been inconsistent. That's not to say that they should be considered some of the worst in any conference in the country, but I certainly wouldn't trumpet them around as big game QBs (with the exception of Leak and possibly Ainge and Woodson).

You're correct, I'm talking about how they do against BCS conference teams not Georgia Southern, Tenn Chatanooga and Indiana School for the Blind.

Also, all those 5 star QB's you mentioned (I was fully aware of that as I'm easily the biggest recruiting nut on these boards) are barely playing right now. Mustain is playing well and is going to be a very good QB. Jury is out on Tebow, Stafford has looked horrible when given the chane to play and Schaeffer has looked beyond horrible.

5-star High School QB's also doesn't mean that they are going to be good college QB's.

marc · 10-08-2006, 06:44 AM

Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit here because I think that College Football in general is down this year as just about all the star players from last year moved on and that next year will be a little more talent loaded.

Either way, the SEC QB's as a group would rank well below the Pac-10 and the Big Ten. I also think it's safe to say that the Big East has 2 QB's in Palko and Brohm that would be top 3-4 QB's in the SEC (Brohm would be the best QB in the SEC).

I'm just real sick of the whole southern speed myth and that these SEC schools have all this "southern speed" on their defenses. Then why in the hell do schools like Wisconsin pound schools like Auburn in bowl games every year??

Also a newsflash for southern speed enthusiasts, the hands down fastest player in CFB is from Cleveland, Ohio. In fact, OSU has one of the 2 or 3 fastest teams in college football and their speed is built mostly on kids from Ohio.

Cooleyvol · 10-08-2006, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc

Watch an actual SEC conference game, the QB play is just awful.

Did you watch a difference UT/Georgia game? Did you see what Mustain did to Auburn?

I'm not sure if this thread is about the SEC as a whole or the QB play in the SEC. Its point has shifted a couple of times.

Leak is TT.
Ainge is very clutch this year.
Other than that, I agree that QB play is down, but how many teams have really good QBs this year.

As a last point, you speak of the PAC10. Did you not see Tennessee take Cal apart in Week 1? And as far as MTSU and playing patsies goes, I think MTSU has played Louisville, Oklahoma, and other big teams, so its not just the SEC playing these types of teams.

I don't know all the SEC OOC schedules, but I can speak to Tennessee's:
Cal -- NOT a 1AA team for sure
Air Force -- a good team without a doubt
Memphis -- Big regional rivalry
Marshall -- last year of agreement

Next year's OOC:
@ Cal
Southern Miss
Northern Illinois
Central Florida

2008 OOC:
NC State
@ UCLA
San Jose State
Wyoming

UT has signed an agreement with Nebraska for home and homes additionally.

I'm sure the same things can be said about OOC schedules for just about anyone. Didn't Ohio State play Bowling Green yesterday?

KurtBevacqua · 10-08-2006, 09:59 AM

Russell seems to save his worst for the best. Like his brother, lots of talent but dissappears in the face of strong defensive pressure. And also like his brother, I suspect will not catch on in the NFL.

That kid for Bama was just awful against Florida, not much better against Arkansas (the two games I've seen him in). Can't handle any kinds of defensive pressure.

Leak throws a very nice pass and I'm sure will play on Sundays, but he doesn't seem to move the chains like the Brady Quinns or Troy Smiths. I suspect that's probably because his style is incompatible with the offense. I think he'll make a better pro than a college player once he gets into a West Coast type of offense.

Georgia was wildly overrated to begin with.

Ainge seems pretty good at Tennessee. They should have stuck with him from the start.

Cox is an everage NCAA QB at best down at Auburn. Just a game manager type, nothing more.

The SEC gets all its props based on depth more than anything. That's turned into a large edge against the other majors. The ACC doesn't even look decent any way you stack it. The Big 10 is now the Big 2. The Pac 10 has been the Pac USC for many years. The Big 12 is surprisingly bad this year. Other than Texas and a surprising Missouri not much going on there. The Big East, puleaze. So the SEC looks very strong for having so many decent to good teams while the rest of the conferences only have one or two really good teams in them.

CBLCardinals · 10-08-2006, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc

CBL you're proving my point, they racked up those numbers against 1-AA teams for crying out loud. Watch an actual SEC conference game, the QB play is just awful.

Living in NW Arkansas I watch SEC football every week.

All teams play some OOC cupcakes on their schedule - this is not uncommon.

marc · 10-08-2006, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

Did you watch a difference UT/Georgia game? Did you see what Mustain did to Auburn?

I'm not sure if this thread is about the SEC as a whole or the QB play in the SEC. Its point has shifted a couple of times.

Leak is TT.
Ainge is very clutch this year.
Other than that, I agree that QB play is down, but how many teams have really good QBs this year.

As a last point, you speak of the PAC10. Did you not see Tennessee take Cal apart in Week 1? And as far as MTSU and playing patsies goes, I think MTSU has played Louisville, Oklahoma, and other big teams, so its not just the SEC playing these types of teams.

I don't know all the SEC OOC schedules, but I can speak to Tennessee's:
Cal -- NOT a 1AA team for sure
Air Force -- a good team without a doubt
Memphis -- Big regional rivalry
Marshall -- last year of agreement

Next year's OOC:
@ Cal
Southern Miss
Northern Illinois
Central Florida

2008 OOC:
NC State
@ UCLA
San Jose State
Wyoming

UT has signed an agreement with Nebraska for home and homes additionally.

I'm sure the same things can be said about OOC schedules for just about anyone. Didn't Ohio State play Bowling Green yesterday?

Yeah I watched Tennessee and Georgia, Ainge has been solid this year I'll agree to that. Georgia's QB play is horrendous and that game last nite was an anomaly has no SEC game will be that high scoring again. Not to mention that 21 pts were scored on special teams.

As I said before, Florida and Tennessee are good teams but the SEC isn't this "all dominant" conference that it is made out to be.

Maybe it's more than a coincidence that the only teams in the conference that ever man up and play anybody are the conferences 2 best teams this year....

I don't think you were trying to take a shot at OSU as you were just trying to point out that a lot of teams do this but OSU always plays instate MAC schools for the same reason UT plays Memphis. On top of that BG was put on the schedule at the last minute because they needed a 12th game due to NCAA rule changes.

Of course, OSU has more balls than any other team in College Football when it comes to scheduling. Here is who OSU has a home and home series with over the next 10-12 years:

Texas
Miami
USC
Cal
Virginia Tech
Oklahoma

I would love to see some more SEC schools do this, I don't think any (outside of Florida and Tennessee )ever would. I believe it was LSU who hasn't scheduled a road game north of Kentucky in like 30 years, pathetic.

Again, I don't think it's a coincidence that the 2 best and most consistent programs in the SEC, Florida and Tennessee are the 2 teams in the conference that play legitimate OOC schedules. I don't expect 3 or 4 powerhouse games but 1 marquee team would be nice every now and then.

Auburn tried it for the first time ever a few years ago and USC totally handed their asses to them and I doubt Auburn will do it again.

marc · 10-08-2006, 05:05 PM

Missed your comment on Mustain, I think it sort of proves what I'm getting at..

The SEC defenses are sickeningly overrated, if Mustain can do that (which personally I think it was McFadden and the running attack that really did it) what would Brady Quinn, Troy Smith or Brian Brohm do to that defense that was supposedly a top 3 defense???

I guess what fueled this was that idiot Lee Corso saying something over the top about how the SEC has the best 5 defenses in college football, when in reality they probably only have 1 top 5 defense in the conference.

Hell USC smoked Arkansas on the road and held them to 3 pts yet the Pac-10 gets a rep as being soft, what would that make Auburn's D?

Dougiestyle · 10-08-2006, 05:27 PM

I think it's painfully clear that the Big 10 and the SEC are head and shoulders above the other conferences.

SEC fans will admit the B10 is strong. We shouldn't argue.

CBLCardinals · 10-08-2006, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc

Yeah I watched Tennessee and Georgia, Ainge has been solid this year I'll agree to that. Georgia's QB play is horrendous and that game last nite was an anomaly has no SEC game will be that high scoring again. Not to mention that 21 pts were scored on special teams.

As I said before, Florida and Tennessee are good teams but the SEC isn't this "all dominant" conference that it is made out to be.

Maybe it's more than a coincidence that the only teams in the conference that ever man up and play anybody are the conferences 2 best teams this year....

Arkansas played Texas and USC the past 4 years - do you consider those good "OOC" games?

marc · 10-08-2006, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBLCardinals

Arkansas played Texas and USC the past 4 years - do you consider those good "OOC" games?

And how did they fare??

Point made again, the SEC year in and year out is overrated.

marc · 10-08-2006, 05:52 PM

Again, I wanna see the top SEC teams like Georgia, LSU, and Auburn step outside the conference and play somebody, particularly on the road.

CBLCardinals · 10-08-2006, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc

And how did they fare??

Point made again, the SEC year in and year out is overrated.

1-3

I'm not sure anymore what your "point" is....

It keeps shifting from "SEC QB's suck" to "SEC is overrated" to "SEC never play anyone OOC" to "SEC defenses are overrated".

marc · 10-08-2006, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBLCardinals

1-3

I'm not sure anymore what your "point" is....

It keeps shifting from "SEC QB's suck" to "SEC is overrated" to "SEC never play anyone OOC" to "SEC defenses are overrated".

My point is all of the above. It's overrated BECAUSE the elite teams never play anyone OOC, the QB play is below a lot of other conferences and the defenses aren't as good as they're touted to be.

Dougiestyle · 10-08-2006, 10:46 PM

Tennessee has to be considered an elite SEC team. At least moreso than Florida, and maybe Auburn, if you're looking at the last 10 years.

10-08-2006, 01:25 AM	#1
marc Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,505	The SEC is disgustingly overrated If I have to hear about the SEC defenses one more time I'm gonna puke. Did anyone ever stop to think that the reason the SEC games are low scoring is because the QB play is absolutely horrendous? By far the worst QB's reside in the SEC (with the exception of Leak, but Florida can remain out of this topic entirely because they are a legit top 3 team). I'm not saying that the SEC is bad, hell it's probably the top conference this year from top to bottom but when people act like it's so superior to the other conferences it's absolutely comical. Auburn and LSU would lose ATLEAST 2 games in the Big Ten and probably 3. Florida is clearly legit, and Tennesse is good but the 3 most overrated teams in CFB reside in the SEC in Auburn, LSU, and Georgia. Everyone was just slobbering over this conference because they had 4 top 10 teams, well of course they do, they don't play any tough OOC opponents EVER!!!! The SEC is notorious for their pathetic OOC schedules (again leave Florida out of this). So yeah while their conference has good depth to it and the conference schedule is tough, when you play Southern, Grambling, and Mid Tennessee State as your OOC schedule, it's not exactly going to kill you to lose a few conference games. Ok, that's my rant for the day. __________________

10-08-2006, 05:44 AM	#5
Big Willis 16 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,616	When you can throw 9-24 in a game and have a 159.60 rating, that's saying something. I don't know what....but it's saying something. __________________ A wise man once said "shutup and drink your beer!"

10-08-2006, 06:32 AM	#6
marc Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,505	CBL you're proving my point, they racked up those numbers against 1-AA teams for crying out loud. Watch an actual SEC conference game, the QB play is just awful. Using stats at this point in the season isn't very telling as most teams haven't gotten into the bulk of their conference schedules yet. Lots of teams have pretty looking stats because they haven't played many good teams yet or some teams have a good looking SOS (Notre Dame) because they play teams like Purdue that started 4-0 and probably still won't make it to a bowl game. __________________

10-08-2006, 06:44 AM	#8
marc Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,505	Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit here because I think that College Football in general is down this year as just about all the star players from last year moved on and that next year will be a little more talent loaded. Either way, the SEC QB's as a group would rank well below the Pac-10 and the Big Ten. I also think it's safe to say that the Big East has 2 QB's in Palko and Brohm that would be top 3-4 QB's in the SEC (Brohm would be the best QB in the SEC). I'm just real sick of the whole southern speed myth and that these SEC schools have all this "southern speed" on their defenses. Then why in the hell do schools like Wisconsin pound schools like Auburn in bowl games every year?? Also a newsflash for southern speed enthusiasts, the hands down fastest player in CFB is from Cleveland, Ohio. In fact, OSU has one of the 2 or 3 fastest teams in college football and their speed is built mostly on kids from Ohio. __________________

10-08-2006, 09:59 AM	#10
KurtBevacqua Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,968	Russell seems to save his worst for the best. Like his brother, lots of talent but dissappears in the face of strong defensive pressure. And also like his brother, I suspect will not catch on in the NFL. That kid for Bama was just awful against Florida, not much better against Arkansas (the two games I've seen him in). Can't handle any kinds of defensive pressure. Leak throws a very nice pass and I'm sure will play on Sundays, but he doesn't seem to move the chains like the Brady Quinns or Troy Smiths. I suspect that's probably because his style is incompatible with the offense. I think he'll make a better pro than a college player once he gets into a West Coast type of offense. Georgia was wildly overrated to begin with. Ainge seems pretty good at Tennessee. They should have stuck with him from the start. Cox is an everage NCAA QB at best down at Auburn. Just a game manager type, nothing more. The SEC gets all its props based on depth more than anything. That's turned into a large edge against the other majors. The ACC doesn't even look decent any way you stack it. The Big 10 is now the Big 2. The Pac 10 has been the Pac USC for many years. The Big 12 is surprisingly bad this year. Other than Texas and a surprising Missouri not much going on there. The Big East, puleaze. So the SEC looks very strong for having so many decent to good teams while the rest of the conferences only have one or two really good teams in them. __________________ "The type and formula of most schemes of philanthropy or humanitarianism is this: A and B put their heads together to decide what C shall be made to do for D. The radical vice of all these schemes, from a sociological point of view, is that C is not allowed a voice in the matter, and his position, character, and interests, as well as the ultimate effects on society through C's interests, are entirely overlooked. I call C the Forgotten Man" - William Graham Sumner Last edited by KurtBevacqua; 10-08-2006 at 10:01 AM.

10-08-2006, 05:05 PM	#13
marc Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,505	Missed your comment on Mustain, I think it sort of proves what I'm getting at.. The SEC defenses are sickeningly overrated, if Mustain can do that (which personally I think it was McFadden and the running attack that really did it) what would Brady Quinn, Troy Smith or Brian Brohm do to that defense that was supposedly a top 3 defense??? I guess what fueled this was that idiot Lee Corso saying something over the top about how the SEC has the best 5 defenses in college football, when in reality they probably only have 1 top 5 defense in the conference. Hell USC smoked Arkansas on the road and held them to 3 pts yet the Pac-10 gets a rep as being soft, what would that make Auburn's D? __________________

10-08-2006, 05:27 PM	#14
Dougiestyle All Star Reserve Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 922	I think it's painfully clear that the Big 10 and the SEC are head and shoulders above the other conferences. SEC fans will admit the B10 is strong. We shouldn't argue.

10-08-2006, 05:52 PM	#17
marc Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,505	Again, I wanna see the top SEC teams like Georgia, LSU, and Auburn step outside the conference and play somebody, particularly on the road. __________________

10-08-2006, 10:46 PM	#20
Dougiestyle All Star Reserve Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 922	Tennessee has to be considered an elite SEC team. At least moreso than Florida, and maybe Auburn, if you're looking at the last 10 years.