Papi speaks out

yankeesrule · 09-11-2006, 11:21 AM

Heres an article on espn with Ortiz talking about how he still should be the MVP even though the Sox wont make the playoffs this year. A few comments that really stuck out.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2582790

"They're talking about [Derek] Jeter a lot, right? He's done a great job, he's having a great season, but Jeter is not a 40-homer hitter or an RBI guy. It doesn't matter how much you've done for your ball club, the bottom line is, the guy who hits 40 home runs and knocks in 100, that's the guy you know helped your team win games. "

"Don't get me wrong -- he's a great player, having a great season, but he's got a lot of guys in that lineup," Ortiz continued. "Top to bottom, you've got a guy who can hurt you. Come hit in this lineup, see how good you can be."

If I was one of his teammates, personally i'd be offended. Kinda sounds like he doesn't think he has anyone else in his lineup, except you know, that guy hitting behind him who also regularly hits 45+ HR and 120+ rbi, Manny. Always thought Ortiz was a good team guy and whatnot but not sure based on some of these comments of his

ctorg · 09-11-2006, 11:28 AM

It's never classy to plead your case to the media for an award in baseball. All the pleading should be done through on-field performance. If anything, stuff like this will hurt him when it comes time to vote.

rudel.dietrich · 09-11-2006, 11:30 AM

Sounds like frustration
Boston went from having a great season to being completly out of it in the space of less than a month.
The weekend they lost those 5 or 6 games to the Yankees must have been crushing to team morale.

rudel.dietrich · 09-11-2006, 11:33 AM

And for the record, Hafner deserves the award.
10.31 RC/27 leads the majors and he is 1st in the AL in RC as well

Coates · 09-11-2006, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yankeesrule

If I was one of his teammates, personally i'd be offended. Kinda sounds like he doesn't think he has anyone else in his lineup, except you know, that guy hitting behind him who also regularly hits 45+ HR and 120+ rbi, Manny. Always thought Ortiz was a good team guy and whatnot but not sure based on some of these comments of his

What's wrong with the truth? The Yankees DO have the best lineup in baseball, considering they've scored the most runs this season. All Ortiz is saying is that his power numbers will be in a league of its own for the AL if he gets 50, and to him, homeruns and RBI is his way of determining an MVP. He even says he'd vote for Dye or Morneau if he had a vote.

CMH · 09-11-2006, 11:55 AM

Ortiz is right.

andjbock · 09-11-2006, 12:09 PM

To me it sounds like Papi is saying that he should not be penalized for being a DH. If Jeter wins it would be because his numbers are inflated with such a talented lineup and because he plays the field.

legendsport · 09-11-2006, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andjbock

To me it sounds like Papi is saying that he should not be penalized for being a DH. If Jeter wins it would be because his numbers are inflated with such a talented lineup and because he plays the field.

That is what he's saying. And it's a valid stance to say that a guy who plays the field, especially at a key position such as SS (like A-Rod in 2003 when he won on a last-place team), might make more "overall" contribution than a guy who sits on the bench for all but 4 or 5 of the 60+ at-bats in a game.

The problem (or brilliance) of the MVP award is that it's open to debate as to what constitutes "most valuable." And because baseball writers decide the winner, personal bias, narrow-mindedness and simple spite will always factor in the outcome. Ted Williams won 2 Triple Crowns and didn't win MVP either time - and the main reason was that the writers didn't like him.

CMH · 09-11-2006, 12:20 PM

To me Ortiz was saying that he has the power numbers and a weaker lineup than Jeter to carry.

Ortiz is right.

I'm not saying he should win the MVP award. And actually, neither is Ortiz. He just said he should be considered and not counted out just because he was hurt and his team won't make the playoffs.

Skipaway · 09-11-2006, 12:27 PM

I don't think Ortiz really said anything meaningful, just mostly baseball cliches. Some of them are even conflicting.

Dagrims · 09-11-2006, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yankeesrule

It doesn't matter how much you've done for your ball club, the bottom line is, the guy who hits 40 home runs and knocks in 100, that's the guy you know helped your team win games. "

"Don't get me wrong -- he's a great player, having a great season, but he's got a lot of guys in that lineup," Ortiz continued. "Top to bottom, you've got a guy who can hurt you. Come hit in this lineup, see how good you can be."

I wonder if he would have voted for Kingman in '79.

MorseMoose · 09-11-2006, 03:16 PM

Most Valuable = Johan K. Santana

CommishJoe · 09-12-2006, 01:09 PM

I like Jeter's reply...

So what does Jeter think about that? "I'm not thinking about winning an MVP, I'm thinking about winning the division," he said. "Our focus here isn't on individual awards. We've still got something to play for."

Full article here:

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseba...-yankees-print

Skipaway · 09-12-2006, 01:22 PM

So Jeter is full of baseball cliche too?

Splitter24 · 09-12-2006, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommishJoe

I like Jeter's reply...

So what does Jeter think about that? "I'm not thinking about winning an MVP, I'm thinking about winning the division," he said. "Our focus here isn't on individual awards. We've still got something to play for."

Full article here:

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseba...-yankees-print

So you like canned cliches about having something to play for when you have a 10 game lead in the middle of September?

And, BTW, if you think that any ball player doesn't think about winning the MVP regardless of what they tell the media, I've got some useless stuff I need to sell you.

CMH · 09-12-2006, 01:30 PM

Hmm...Joe didn't say that Jeter was high and mighty for saying that.

He only said he liked Jeter's response.

I mean, seriously, don't you? Isn't Jeter's response what a player is supposed to say in that situation?

Or perhaps you rather he be more like Randy Moss?

It isn't about whether or not he truly doesn't think about winning the MVP. It's the fact that Jeter continuously delivers exactly what the NY media wants to hear. It's why they love the guy. Call Jeter "fake" (and yes, to me Jeter can be fake a lot of the time), but I bet Boston fans wish Ortiz didn't say anything at all.

Skipaway · 09-12-2006, 01:36 PM

If it was Rodriguez talking cliche, people would call it fake.

magnet · 09-12-2006, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeePride

Or perhaps you rather he be more like Randy Moss?

Could you clarify this part a little bit, please? When did Moss ever use the media to ask for an award?

Splitter24 · 09-12-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeePride

Hmm...Joe didn't say that Jeter was high and mighty for saying that.

He only said he liked Jeter's response.

I mean, seriously, don't you? Isn't Jeter's response what a player is supposed to say in that situation?

Or perhaps you rather he be more like Randy Moss?

It isn't about whether or not he truly doesn't think about winning the MVP. It's the fact that Jeter continuously delivers exactly what the NY media wants to hear. It's why they love the guy. Call Jeter "fake" (and yes, to me Jeter can be fake a lot of the time), but I bet Boston fans wish Ortiz didn't say anything at all.

It was refreshing to hear a good guy like Ortiz tell it like it is instead of hearing the same non-genuine crap. Should Ortiz have said what he did? Maybe not. Maybe some of his teammates privately expressed displeasure with his remarks. But they were genuine, and not inaccurate. You would think a real journalist would appreciate honesty more than being lied to.

CMH · 09-12-2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnet

Could you clarify this part a little bit, please? When did Moss ever use the media to ask for an award?

Moss was an example of a player whose words with the media are always either misinterpreted or disliked.

I'm not speaking of Moss the person. I'm talking Moss the speaker. And everyone knows he hasn't done a great job of getting his point across clearly.

edit: Let me make it clear that I think Moss is treated unfairly and is always misunderstood.

09-11-2006, 11:21 AM	#1
yankeesrule All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,367	Papi speaks out Heres an article on espn with Ortiz talking about how he still should be the MVP even though the Sox wont make the playoffs this year. A few comments that really stuck out. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2582790 "They're talking about [Derek] Jeter a lot, right? He's done a great job, he's having a great season, but Jeter is not a 40-homer hitter or an RBI guy. It doesn't matter how much you've done for your ball club, the bottom line is, the guy who hits 40 home runs and knocks in 100, that's the guy you know helped your team win games. " "Don't get me wrong -- he's a great player, having a great season, but he's got a lot of guys in that lineup," Ortiz continued. "Top to bottom, you've got a guy who can hurt you. Come hit in this lineup, see how good you can be." If I was one of his teammates, personally i'd be offended. Kinda sounds like he doesn't think he has anyone else in his lineup, except you know, that guy hitting behind him who also regularly hits 45+ HR and 120+ rbi, Manny. Always thought Ortiz was a good team guy and whatnot but not sure based on some of these comments of his

09-11-2006, 11:28 AM	#2
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	It's never classy to plead your case to the media for an award in baseball. All the pleading should be done through on-field performance. If anything, stuff like this will hurt him when it comes time to vote. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

09-11-2006, 12:27 PM	#10
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	I don't think Ortiz really said anything meaningful, just mostly baseball cliches. Some of them are even conflicting. __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

09-12-2006, 01:09 PM	#13
CommishJoe Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,238	I like Jeter's reply... So what does Jeter think about that? "I'm not thinking about winning an MVP, I'm thinking about winning the division," he said. "Our focus here isn't on individual awards. We've still got something to play for." Full article here: http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseba...-yankees-print __________________ Joe Success isn’t owned. It’s leased. And rent is due every day.

09-12-2006, 01:22 PM	#14
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	So Jeter is full of baseball cliche too? __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

09-11-2006, 11:30 AM	#3
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608	Sounds like frustration Boston went from having a great season to being completly out of it in the space of less than a month. The weekend they lost those 5 or 6 games to the Yankees must have been crushing to team morale.

09-11-2006, 11:33 AM	#4
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608	And for the record, Hafner deserves the award. 10.31 RC/27 leads the majors and he is 1st in the AL in RC as well

09-11-2006, 11:55 AM	#6
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	Ortiz is right.

09-11-2006, 12:09 PM	#7
andjbock Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somerville, MA, USA Bats: Right Throws: Left Posts: 3,640	To me it sounds like Papi is saying that he should not be penalized for being a DH. If Jeter wins it would be because his numbers are inflated with such a talented lineup and because he plays the field.

09-11-2006, 12:20 PM	#9
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	To me Ortiz was saying that he has the power numbers and a weaker lineup than Jeter to carry. Ortiz is right. I'm not saying he should win the MVP award. And actually, neither is Ortiz. He just said he should be considered and not counted out just because he was hurt and his team won't make the playoffs.

09-11-2006, 03:16 PM	#12
MorseMoose Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 6,023 Infractions: 1/1 (1)	Most Valuable = Johan K. Santana

09-12-2006, 01:30 PM	#16
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	Hmm...Joe didn't say that Jeter was high and mighty for saying that. He only said he liked Jeter's response. I mean, seriously, don't you? Isn't Jeter's response what a player is supposed to say in that situation? Or perhaps you rather he be more like Randy Moss? It isn't about whether or not he truly doesn't think about winning the MVP. It's the fact that Jeter continuously delivers exactly what the NY media wants to hear. It's why they love the guy. Call Jeter "fake" (and yes, to me Jeter can be fake a lot of the time), but I bet Boston fans wish Ortiz didn't say anything at all.

09-12-2006, 01:36 PM	#17
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	If it was Rodriguez talking cliche, people would call it fake. __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.