Will the game let me do this?

Pirates Fan · 09-09-2006, 09:24 PM

Folks,

I've played Version 5, but it wasn't what I was looking for at the time. Before I invest time in the newer versions, I have some questions.

Please answer both for Version 6.5 (with all patches and expansion pack) and BB2006 (with all patches).

And if the answer is yes for both, please say why/how one version does it better.

1. From Lahman database, Can I import from individual historical teams (not an entire year, just one team at a time), say, the '60 Pirates, '61 Reds, '62 Giants, '63 Dodgers, and so on, into one 8-team league?

2. In year 2 and beyond, is there any EASY way to import from Lahman a player's single season without that complicated naming convention that someone on this forum was kind enough to explain a while back?

3. I know postseason playoffs are not possible within a single-league setup in 6.5, but in BB2006 can I have a 4th-place team meet a 1st place team, or is it division winners only? (I'd have a 2-division set-up, though I'd like to have no divisions.)

4. I want a 4-man rotation. Will imported starters from an era of 5-man rotations burn out?

5. Will an imported player, like say, '64 Mel Stottlemyre, with 96 IP be impossible to use for the entire year at normal effectiveness?

Again, I hope you rememberd to answer for 6.5 and BB2006

Thanks. Last time I lurked, the folks on this forum answered quickly and in great detail. I hope it's still the same.

Geoff

Charlie Hough · 09-10-2006, 02:33 AM

These answers all refer to OOTP 2006, but in most cases they will apply to 6.5 as well.

1. No, I believe you can only import an individual player. I'm not sure if you can import individual players in 6.5, but you can in 2006.

2. I'm not quite sure what you mean here. If you import players from Lahman, the current ratings will usually reflect their ability for the season that was used for the import, and their potentials will be based on your choice of career totals, peak seasons, or remaining years of the player's career. The game isn't really designed to import individual player seasons and treat them in isolation, although you can actually use the game to do a single season replay. You can simply do an import and turn off player development. Players will generally perform according to their ability in the season that you used for the import.

3. You can have division winners and wildcards that qualify for the playoffs. So, in theory, if you only have one division, I think you could still have the top four teams qualify for the playoffs. I'm not sure about all the playoff options in 6.5, but I know that OOTP 2006 offers this wildcard setup.

4. Not if your era settings are set up properly. If you want to use a four-man rotation, then you should probably increase pitcher endurance in the league settings to normal or maybe high. I've simulated historical seasons with four-man rotations and pitcher endurance set to normal, and it seems to work just fine. You just wouldn't want pitcher endurance set to low or very low.

5. Absolutely not. There have never been limitations on players based on their actual season statistics, even for the first year of your import. The game creates player ratings based on their Lahman statistics, but once players have been imported, the ratings determine everything, and the real life statistics cease to have any value.

Pirates Fan · 09-10-2006, 04:07 PM

Thanks, Charlie Hough, that's what I hoped.

If I could impose on you for a few more questions on OOTP 2006 (and if anyone would like to chime in on how any of this differs in OOTP 6.5, PLEASE do):

1. Let's say I wanted to simulate a Universal Baseball Association-type of experience, with historical players (peak career value), but with no minors, no financials, no injuries, beginning in 1964 but with only 8 teams instead of 20, is this what I'd do?

a. Download 1964.
b. Transfer teams I want into the league I'll be keeping.
c. Delete one entire league.
d. Delete two teams.
e. Generate an 84-game schedule.
f. Set lineups and rotations.
g. Play ball.
h. Hold 2 rounds of playoffs.

2. Suppose I got a notion to break my UBA into two divisions. Do I deviate from above like this:

b. Trasfer whichever teams I wish to each league.
c. Delete the unwanted teams.
d. Generate a 60-game schedule (36 against rivals in own league, 24 vs. oppontents in other league -- is that possible?)

3. Now it's time for the Hot Stove League. I don't want to fool with the minor leagues. And I wish to introduce parity. Hence I want to control which players enter the league and which teams sign them. I'd start with the free agent pool from 1964.

a. During the league setup, I'd have to release players from the 12 unwanted teams to free agency before deleting those teams, correct?

b. Do free agents develop differently from players who come up through the minors?

Again, thanks for your answers.

Geoff

Charlie Hough · 09-10-2006, 06:43 PM

Keep in mind that OOTP 2006 is not yet fully designed to allow totally custom leagues using historical players.

You can import a league and players from the Lahman database, and you can actually delete entire divisions and teams, but you cannot alter the very core structure of the league, such as the division into the two sub leagues of the AL and the NL. You can rename those sub leagues, but you cannot delete one of them.

However, you can leave one of the sub leagues empty and simply generate a schedule based on the filled sub league. You'll get an error from OOTP, but I guess you can still click past it and proceed anyway.

You should also be aware that you have to create your baseball universe first and then edit the league structure through the 'other functions' menu in the league setup screen. Unfortunately, this means that the teams that you delete will show up in your league history as 'earlier teams'. It will show their names and the year that the franchise was supposedly active, which would simply be the starting year that you selected when you created the game.

If you choose to delete some teams and keep some of the others, then I assume that the history would show the deleted teams as earlier franchises and will show your renamed teams as current ones. You could also rename teams, but keep in mind that this will rename those teams for any career stats that you keep from Lahman. In other words, the franchise abbreviations will be applied retroactively to past stats. However, if you're going to clear all career stats for players, this will be a non-issue.

Also, I have discovered that my previous answer about the wildcards is not entirely correct. The only way to allow more than one wildcard team to qualify for the playoffs is if you have more than one division in your league. So, if you want four teams to qualify for the playoffs, you have to have at least two divisions. Then you can setup the league so that both division winners and two wildcards will qualify.

As a general rule, you need to keep in mind that OOTP 2006 is really lacking in the ability to create fully customized historical leagues, and it also does not allow any leagues to be added or deleted after you've created your baseball universe. You can edit league structures and that's all. And obviously this is even limited.

This has been a major area of disappointment for people who bought OOTP 2006 and expected the freedom to do the kinds of projects that you're proposing. I think that some of these issues will be addressed in OOTP 2007, but that means that everyone will have to wait until next
spring to have full power to customize their leagues the way they want.

To answer your final questions, you can simply release all the players right after you create the initial league. You can delete teams and divisions and then add teams per your preferences. Then you can schedule an initial draft. If you choose to keep some teams and delete others, I'm not sure how this will work. Maybe the players from the deleted teams will be free agents, while others will already be with their teams.

There are different algorythms for player development based on their level of minors and whether they're playing in the majors. I assume that free agents would develop different than players in the minors. If they're not playing, then I doubt that they can develop. The can probably only deteriorate.

Pirates Fan · 09-10-2006, 09:37 PM

Thanks for the thoughtful, thorough answers. Much food for thought as I continue to watch OOTP evolve.

Curtis · 09-11-2006, 08:39 PM

I'm going to put my two cents in in regards to one of the things Charlie said. My experience in creating leagues and playoffs using the previous build (12268) was that you CANNOT set the playoffs up the way you hope to. While there are wildcard teams, they only show up to get the number of teams in the playoffs to a power of two.

As an example, if you have one league with five divisions, the game will automatically assign three wildcards, in order to bring the total number of playoff teams to eight. If you set the same league up with four divisions, there will be NO wildcards, since four is a power of two. The number of wildcards is NOT commissioner editable. (Le Grande Orange is working on that for the 2007 edition.)

I'm pretty sure that if you only have one division, there will be a (two team) playoff, but the only ways to get four teams would be to have three or four divisions. This MAY have changed under the current build (12270).

Charlie Hough · 09-11-2006, 10:31 PM

I think this has definitely changed, because I created a test league while answering Pirates Fan's questions, and it allowed me to create a league with two divisions and four wildcard slots.

Curtis · 09-11-2006, 11:14 PM

I sure hope you're right. I REALLY want a one division league with the eight best teams making the playoffs. Thanks for checking.

Charlie Hough · 09-11-2006, 11:40 PM

Unfortunately, you misunderstood me. I was responding to what you said about needing three or four divisions to get four teams qualifying for the playoffs. I mentioned that you can have a two-division league with four teams qualifying for the playoffs (each division winner plus a wildcard). But you definitely cannot expand the playoffs beyond a maximum of two slots per division though.

If you want eight teams in the playoffs, you'd have to have four divisions.

Curtis · 09-12-2006, 01:41 AM

*sigh* Still better than my current six.

Zeyes · 09-12-2006, 02:20 AM

Yep, wildcards always fill up the post-season to the next power of two. (Separately for each sub-league.) And additionally, when the number of divisions is itself a power of two, you also have the option of using no wildcards, of course.

I'm pretty sure it's been like that since the initial release, FWIW.

09-09-2006, 09:24 PM	#1
Pirates Fan Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 65	Will the game let me do this? Folks, I've played Version 5, but it wasn't what I was looking for at the time. Before I invest time in the newer versions, I have some questions. Please answer both for Version 6.5 (with all patches and expansion pack) and BB2006 (with all patches). And if the answer is yes for both, please say why/how one version does it better. 1. From Lahman database, Can I import from individual historical teams (not an entire year, just one team at a time), say, the '60 Pirates, '61 Reds, '62 Giants, '63 Dodgers, and so on, into one 8-team league? 2. In year 2 and beyond, is there any EASY way to import from Lahman a player's single season without that complicated naming convention that someone on this forum was kind enough to explain a while back? 3. I know postseason playoffs are not possible within a single-league setup in 6.5, but in BB2006 can I have a 4th-place team meet a 1st place team, or is it division winners only? (I'd have a 2-division set-up, though I'd like to have no divisions.) 4. I want a 4-man rotation. Will imported starters from an era of 5-man rotations burn out? 5. Will an imported player, like say, '64 Mel Stottlemyre, with 96 IP be impossible to use for the entire year at normal effectiveness? Again, I hope you rememberd to answer for 6.5 and BB2006 Thanks. Last time I lurked, the folks on this forum answered quickly and in great detail. I hope it's still the same. Geoff <!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->

09-10-2006, 02:33 AM	#2
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,644	These answers all refer to OOTP 2006, but in most cases they will apply to 6.5 as well. 1. No, I believe you can only import an individual player. I'm not sure if you can import individual players in 6.5, but you can in 2006. 2. I'm not quite sure what you mean here. If you import players from Lahman, the current ratings will usually reflect their ability for the season that was used for the import, and their potentials will be based on your choice of career totals, peak seasons, or remaining years of the player's career. The game isn't really designed to import individual player seasons and treat them in isolation, although you can actually use the game to do a single season replay. You can simply do an import and turn off player development. Players will generally perform according to their ability in the season that you used for the import. 3. You can have division winners and wildcards that qualify for the playoffs. So, in theory, if you only have one division, I think you could still have the top four teams qualify for the playoffs. I'm not sure about all the playoff options in 6.5, but I know that OOTP 2006 offers this wildcard setup. 4. Not if your era settings are set up properly. If you want to use a four-man rotation, then you should probably increase pitcher endurance in the league settings to normal or maybe high. I've simulated historical seasons with four-man rotations and pitcher endurance set to normal, and it seems to work just fine. You just wouldn't want pitcher endurance set to low or very low. 5. Absolutely not. There have never been limitations on players based on their actual season statistics, even for the first year of your import. The game creates player ratings based on their Lahman statistics, but once players have been imported, the ratings determine everything, and the real life statistics cease to have any value.

09-10-2006, 04:07 PM	#3
Pirates Fan Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 65	Thanks, Charlie Hough, that's what I hoped. If I could impose on you for a few more questions on OOTP 2006 (and if anyone would like to chime in on how any of this differs in OOTP 6.5, PLEASE do): 1. Let's say I wanted to simulate a Universal Baseball Association-type of experience, with historical players (peak career value), but with no minors, no financials, no injuries, beginning in 1964 but with only 8 teams instead of 20, is this what I'd do? a. Download 1964. b. Transfer teams I want into the league I'll be keeping. c. Delete one entire league. d. Delete two teams. e. Generate an 84-game schedule. f. Set lineups and rotations. g. Play ball. h. Hold 2 rounds of playoffs. 2. Suppose I got a notion to break my UBA into two divisions. Do I deviate from above like this: b. Trasfer whichever teams I wish to each league. c. Delete the unwanted teams. d. Generate a 60-game schedule (36 against rivals in own league, 24 vs. oppontents in other league -- is that possible?) 3. Now it's time for the Hot Stove League. I don't want to fool with the minor leagues. And I wish to introduce parity. Hence I want to control which players enter the league and which teams sign them. I'd start with the free agent pool from 1964. a. During the league setup, I'd have to release players from the 12 unwanted teams to free agency before deleting those teams, correct? b. Do free agents develop differently from players who come up through the minors? Again, thanks for your answers. Geoff

09-10-2006, 06:43 PM	#4
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,644	Keep in mind that OOTP 2006 is not yet fully designed to allow totally custom leagues using historical players. You can import a league and players from the Lahman database, and you can actually delete entire divisions and teams, but you cannot alter the very core structure of the league, such as the division into the two sub leagues of the AL and the NL. You can rename those sub leagues, but you cannot delete one of them. However, you can leave one of the sub leagues empty and simply generate a schedule based on the filled sub league. You'll get an error from OOTP, but I guess you can still click past it and proceed anyway. You should also be aware that you have to create your baseball universe first and then edit the league structure through the 'other functions' menu in the league setup screen. Unfortunately, this means that the teams that you delete will show up in your league history as 'earlier teams'. It will show their names and the year that the franchise was supposedly active, which would simply be the starting year that you selected when you created the game. If you choose to delete some teams and keep some of the others, then I assume that the history would show the deleted teams as earlier franchises and will show your renamed teams as current ones. You could also rename teams, but keep in mind that this will rename those teams for any career stats that you keep from Lahman. In other words, the franchise abbreviations will be applied retroactively to past stats. However, if you're going to clear all career stats for players, this will be a non-issue. Also, I have discovered that my previous answer about the wildcards is not entirely correct. The only way to allow more than one wildcard team to qualify for the playoffs is if you have more than one division in your league. So, if you want four teams to qualify for the playoffs, you have to have at least two divisions. Then you can setup the league so that both division winners and two wildcards will qualify. As a general rule, you need to keep in mind that OOTP 2006 is really lacking in the ability to create fully customized historical leagues, and it also does not allow any leagues to be added or deleted after you've created your baseball universe. You can edit league structures and that's all. And obviously this is even limited. This has been a major area of disappointment for people who bought OOTP 2006 and expected the freedom to do the kinds of projects that you're proposing. I think that some of these issues will be addressed in OOTP 2007, but that means that everyone will have to wait until next spring to have full power to customize their leagues the way they want. To answer your final questions, you can simply release all the players right after you create the initial league. You can delete teams and divisions and then add teams per your preferences. Then you can schedule an initial draft. If you choose to keep some teams and delete others, I'm not sure how this will work. Maybe the players from the deleted teams will be free agents, while others will already be with their teams. There are different algorythms for player development based on their level of minors and whether they're playing in the majors. I assume that free agents would develop different than players in the minors. If they're not playing, then I doubt that they can develop. The can probably only deteriorate.

09-10-2006, 09:37 PM	#5
Pirates Fan Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 65	Thanks for the thoughtful, thorough answers. Much food for thought as I continue to watch OOTP evolve.

09-11-2006, 08:39 PM	#6
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	I'm going to put my two cents in in regards to one of the things Charlie said. My experience in creating leagues and playoffs using the previous build (12268) was that you CANNOT set the playoffs up the way you hope to. While there are wildcard teams, they only show up to get the number of teams in the playoffs to a power of two. As an example, if you have one league with five divisions, the game will automatically assign three wildcards, in order to bring the total number of playoff teams to eight. If you set the same league up with four divisions, there will be NO wildcards, since four is a power of two. The number of wildcards is NOT commissioner editable. (Le Grande Orange is working on that for the 2007 edition.) I'm pretty sure that if you only have one division, there will be a (two team) playoff, but the only ways to get four teams would be to have three or four divisions. This MAY have changed under the current build (12270).

09-11-2006, 10:31 PM	#7
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,644	I think this has definitely changed, because I created a test league while answering Pirates Fan's questions, and it allowed me to create a league with two divisions and four wildcard slots.

09-11-2006, 11:14 PM	#8
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	I sure hope you're right. I REALLY want a one division league with the eight best teams making the playoffs. Thanks for checking.

09-11-2006, 11:40 PM	#9
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,644	Unfortunately, you misunderstood me. I was responding to what you said about needing three or four divisions to get four teams qualifying for the playoffs. I mentioned that you can have a two-division league with four teams qualifying for the playoffs (each division winner plus a wildcard). But you definitely cannot expand the playoffs beyond a maximum of two slots per division though. If you want eight teams in the playoffs, you'd have to have four divisions.

09-12-2006, 01:41 AM	#10
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	sigh Still better than my current six.

09-12-2006, 02:20 AM	#11
Zeyes All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 818	Yep, wildcards always fill up the post-season to the next power of two. (Separately for each sub-league.) And additionally, when the number of divisions is itself a power of two, you also have the option of using no wildcards, of course. I'm pretty sure it's been like that since the initial release, FWIW.