Deleted Retired Player = Recycled ID?

1998 Yankees · 08-28-2006, 11:25 PM

Would someone please verify this from experience?

I have the Retiring Players Option set to "Delete those who never reached Majors." I think this means that these deleted player IDs get recycled and assigned to newly created players, thereby saving players.dat file size.

Does this mean, as I think it does, that any accomplishments of a deleted non-MLB player will be reassigned as well; that is, the new player's name will appear on the accomplishment list instead of the deleted player? If so, the same would probably be true of awards history and leaderboards.

As evidence, I have included below two snapshots, one of the PCL Accomplishments page, showing a "Julio Samame" as having pitched a AAA no-hitter "back in" 2006. The other is of Julio Samame's player profile, dated April 30, 2012. This particular player was not drafted until 2008, so he was not around in 2006 to have pitched a no-hitter.

I suspect that Samame's slot was held by another player in 2006 who "actually" accomplished the feat but who never made it up to the bigs. That player retired, his ID was recycled by the game, and it is now held by Samame. Hence his name appearing for a no-hitter that he never pitched.

I am not reporting this as a bug; it's probably too late now anyway. I would just like confirmation of my theory so that I know what to expect and plan accordingly. It may lead me to have a smaller universe with the deleting retired non-MLB players option turned off.

Excuse me if this has been discussed and confirmed in the past. In that case, kindly direct me to the thread if you can. Thanks in advance.

1998 Yankees · 08-29-2006, 09:09 AM

Dola . . .

. . . and, arrrrggghh. I just realized, and checked; this is happening in my pet independent leagues as well, probably because I rated them as "AA League Level" instead of "Major League Level" when I created them.

Well, I think I know why it is happening but I'm looking for confirmation from anyone else who has seen this situation. Tea and sympathy would be appreciated, too.

Zeyes · 08-29-2006, 01:19 PM

Well, I'll go you one better...that is a bug, and a pretty nasty one at that.

Your posts prompted me to sim with that option turned on for the first time today, and you're right, player IDs are being reused (the csv dump confirms it). Unless there's a pressing reason for keeping the in-use player ID sequentially (and consecutively) numbered at all times, I for one can't fathom why OOTP doesn't just keep adding player IDs to the back of the list and leave gaps in the numbering where the deleted players were.

I don't have the time to sim ahead until the Accomplishments go funky, but I dare say your observation about some minor league accomplishments eventually showing the wrong players must be accurate.

One more thing...I'm a bit distressed to find that "major leagues" is defined differently here than in the rest of the game. (My indy setup shows the same "everyone's getting deleted" behaviour as yours.) Everywhere else in OOTP, a "major" league is one that isn't affiliated to another league, even if its designation isn't "ML". I suppose I can see the logic of deleting indy minor league players in a universe that has major leagues for which the indies just serve as feeders, but what if it doesn't? I'm also wondering whether international leagues are treated as equivalent to majors here, or not...

Markus Heinsohn · 08-29-2006, 01:27 PM

That is not a bug, it is by design... if someone does not like the way it behaves, he should not use this option.

Zeyes · 08-29-2006, 01:31 PM

Fair enough, then.

Still, is there a design reason for not using unique IDs in that setup? I notice that I can still access the game data (minus the player history) for recently-retired players if they haven't been replaced by new draftees yet (although the retired guys don't show up in the csv dump anymore)...I take it there would be an issue if there were gaps in the numbering?

Markus Heinsohn · 08-29-2006, 01:33 PM

It's a programming issue... without recycling the ID in this place, it would slow down the game quite a bit...

Zeyes · 08-29-2006, 01:35 PM

Many thanks for the confirmation...well, as I said I wasn't using the feature anyway.

jm47048 · 08-29-2006, 01:37 PM

Why is not it possible to clear the database of all records when recycling a player ID?

bp_ · 08-29-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jm47048

Why is not it possible to clear the database of all records when recycling a player ID?

Exactly. That was always the issue with 6.5 as well. You'd have a guy that you drafted as an 18 year old in 2040 and when you got him on your team and looked at the history text below his stats it would show he got his first hit back in 2012. It would be nice if this stuff was cleared out when the ID is recycled.

1998 Yankees · 08-29-2006, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeyes

One more thing...I'm a bit distressed to find that "major leagues" is defined differently here than in the rest of the game. (My indy setup shows the same "everyone's getting deleted" behaviour as yours.) Everywhere else in OOTP, a "major" league is one that isn't affiliated to another league, even if its designation isn't "ML". I suppose I can see the logic of deleting indy minor league players in a universe that has major leagues for which the indies just serve as feeders, but what if it doesn't? I'm also wondering whether international leagues are treated as equivalent to majors here, or not...

My assumptions were that:

1) This problem was related to the League Level setting in league setup, and that
2) MLB and International Leagues are the "Majors" that if a player does not make, he is doomed to oblivion, and that
3) My setting the Independent Leagues to AA League Level doomed those poor devils (at least the ones not lucky enough to become MLB FA).

Making these assumptions, I had the option to allow "Trades with other Major Leagues" in mind as defining the "Majors" and I forgot about the "non-affiliated" major league definition. I'm pretty sure that either way, "International Level" synonymous with "Majors" or International Leagues being non-affiliated with any other league, our International Leagues are fine. Then again I didn't look that closely at them; my current focus is the minors and independents. I will examine international awards and accomplishments tonight to see if they are affected as well.

Edit - I tested a 15-year game with just the standard Korean Baseball Organization and Puerto Rican Winter Leagues, plus two fictional leagues (FBL and FBL2) of eight teams each. The only difference between FBL and FBL2 was that FBL was set for Major League Level and FBL2 was set for AA League Level.

Result: Players who played out their entire careers in the KBO were not deleted, based on awards and accomplishments that correctly listed the retired players that achieved them. Players who played *only* in the PWL were deleted, however. Compare the errors on "PWL Award Winners" with "KOR Award Winners."

Result: Players who played out their entire careers in the FBL, or even just a year in the FBL, were preserved after they retired.

Result: Players who played out their entire careers *only* in the FBL2 were deleted after they retired, as evidenced by award and accomplishment errors. Compare "20-Game Winners" below and see that this occurred in the FBL2, not the FBL.

Conclusion: "Majors" as in "Delete those who never reached Majors" refers not only to MLB but also to the standard international summer (not winter) leagues that come with the game. In addition, a fictional league that is designated "Major League Level" will also be exempt from this problem. Only minor leagues and fictional leagues (like mine, alas) that are designated at a minor league level upon creation are subject to the delete retired players option. Non-affiliation with other leagues, that is, parent league status, does not seem to be a factor in this problem. It appears to be a matter of whether the retired player spent any time at all in his career at either either "Major League Level" or "International Level" that determines if the player is deleted upon retirement.

1998 Yankees · 08-29-2006, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

That is not a bug, it is by design... if someone does not like the way it behaves, he should not use this option.

Well! I do not like the way it behaves, so I will not use this option! (J/K

- I understand it's a necessary tradeoff between minor annoyance and game performance.)

I got what I was looking for in this thread: not a quick fix but an acknowledgement from others, and the head guy, that the problem, er, choice, exists. For me, it means choosing to turn this option off, because I do like looking into minor league history, and I don't want to take any chances with my independent leagues when I restart my game.

What it also means is that I will be shrinking the size of my baseball universe, which I was starting to believe was too large anyway for several other reasons. This way, I hope to avoid any computer performance problems that I may encounter with too many retired players in my players.dat file. At least for quite a while.

Perhaps, in a future version of OOTP, deleting retired players will include disconnecting the hyperlinks on HTML reports like awards and accomplishments. Dead link = retired non-MLB player. At least the original name and achievement would be preserved that way.

I would recommend that battists, if he does update the game guide, talk a bit about this option, pro and con. I notice that this feature appeared in 1.0.2 Build 12252 (released 7/7/06) which was after the latest edition of the guide.

Thanks, one and all, who took the time to post in response.

08-28-2006, 11:25 PM	#1
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	Deleted Retired Player = Recycled ID? Would someone please verify this from experience? I have the Retiring Players Option set to "Delete those who never reached Majors." I think this means that these deleted player IDs get recycled and assigned to newly created players, thereby saving players.dat file size. Does this mean, as I think it does, that any accomplishments of a deleted non-MLB player will be reassigned as well; that is, the new player's name will appear on the accomplishment list instead of the deleted player? If so, the same would probably be true of awards history and leaderboards. As evidence, I have included below two snapshots, one of the PCL Accomplishments page, showing a "Julio Samame" as having pitched a AAA no-hitter "back in" 2006. The other is of Julio Samame's player profile, dated April 30, 2012. This particular player was not drafted until 2008, so he was not around in 2006 to have pitched a no-hitter. I suspect that Samame's slot was held by another player in 2006 who "actually" accomplished the feat but who never made it up to the bigs. That player retired, his ID was recycled by the game, and it is now held by Samame. Hence his name appearing for a no-hitter that he never pitched. I am not reporting this as a bug; it's probably too late now anyway. I would just like confirmation of my theory so that I know what to expect and plan accordingly. It may lead me to have a smaller universe with the deleting retired non-MLB players option turned off. Excuse me if this has been discussed and confirmed in the past. In that case, kindly direct me to the thread if you can. Thanks in advance. Last edited by 1998 Yankees; 02-22-2008 at 10:28 AM.

08-29-2006, 09:09 AM	#2
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	Dola . . . . . . and, arrrrggghh. I just realized, and checked; this is happening in my pet independent leagues as well, probably because I rated them as "AA League Level" instead of "Major League Level" when I created them. Well, I think I know why it is happening but I'm looking for confirmation from anyone else who has seen this situation. Tea and sympathy would be appreciated, too. Last edited by 1998 Yankees; 08-29-2006 at 09:11 AM.

08-29-2006, 01:31 PM	#5
Zeyes All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 818	Fair enough, then. Still, is there a design reason for not using unique IDs in that setup? I notice that I can still access the game data (minus the player history) for recently-retired players if they haven't been replaced by new draftees yet (although the retired guys don't show up in the csv dump anymore)...I take it there would be an issue if there were gaps in the numbering? Last edited by Zeyes; 08-29-2006 at 01:32 PM.

08-29-2006, 01:37 PM	#8
jm47048 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,247	Why is not it possible to clear the database of all records when recycling a player ID? __________________ The New York Yankees World Series Champions 1923, 1927, 1928, 1932, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1943, 1947, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1956, 1958, 1961, 1962, 1977, 1978, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2009 American League Champions 1921, 1922, 1923, 1926, 1927, 1928, 1932, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1947, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1981, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2009, 2024

08-29-2006, 01:19 PM	#3
Zeyes All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 818	Well, I'll go you one better...that is a bug, and a pretty nasty one at that. Your posts prompted me to sim with that option turned on for the first time today, and you're right, player IDs are being reused (the csv dump confirms it). Unless there's a pressing reason for keeping the in-use player ID sequentially (and consecutively) numbered at all times, I for one can't fathom why OOTP doesn't just keep adding player IDs to the back of the list and leave gaps in the numbering where the deleted players were. I don't have the time to sim ahead until the Accomplishments go funky, but I dare say your observation about some minor league accomplishments eventually showing the wrong players must be accurate. One more thing...I'm a bit distressed to find that "major leagues" is defined differently here than in the rest of the game. (My indy setup shows the same "everyone's getting deleted" behaviour as yours.) Everywhere else in OOTP, a "major" league is one that isn't affiliated to another league, even if its designation isn't "ML". I suppose I can see the logic of deleting indy minor league players in a universe that has major leagues for which the indies just serve as feeders, but what if it doesn't? I'm also wondering whether international leagues are treated as equivalent to majors here, or not...

08-29-2006, 01:27 PM	#4
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	That is not a bug, it is by design... if someone does not like the way it behaves, he should not use this option.

08-29-2006, 01:33 PM	#6
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	It's a programming issue... without recycling the ID in this place, it would slow down the game quite a bit...

08-29-2006, 01:35 PM	#7
Zeyes All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 818	Many thanks for the confirmation...well, as I said I wasn't using the feature anyway.