Big drop in ratings?

[Qrusher14242]

I have a 28 yr old closer who last year put up these stats:
4-4 39 saves, 1.55 ERA, 1.15 WHIP 63 IP.

His ratings for that year were: Stuff 83, Movement 82, Control 72

Suddenly this year, at 28, his ratings are: Stuff 59, Movement 55, Control 58.

He wasnt injured, so i cant figure out why his ratings would dropoff so much. Anyone else seen this?

[f.montoya]

This is a known bug, actually. You'll also notice that several pitchers are seeing the same ratings drop at around age 28-29 and you probably have almost no pitchers beyond the age of 35. If this is true, you're in luck. Markus has found the problem and the fix should be part of the next patch.

[Qrusher14242]

cool thanks

[Doughnuts?]

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242

I have a 28 yr old closer who last year put up these stats:
4-4 39 saves, 1.55 ERA, 1.15 WHIP 63 IP.

His ratings for that year were: Stuff 83, Movement 82, Control 72

Suddenly this year, at 28, his ratings are: Stuff 59, Movement 55, Control 58.

He wasnt injured, so i cant figure out why his ratings would dropoff so much. Anyone else seen this?

Just get here? Welcome to the jungle.

[rogmax11]

This sudden and catastrophic ratings drop hit me too, essentially killing a league I lavished hours and hours on. I noticed in particular that when I edited a few of the more unlikely names in my league, the ratings took an immediate and severe hit. Is this coincidental?

Coupled with an AI that sends productive players off to taxi-squad hell, and my persistent inability to figure out how to add in Arods DB into the game ( I know, many have done it; Ive got no excuse other than ineptitude with the most basic of commands/syntax/skills with Windows ), and Im pretty well stymied thus far.

I could even live without historicals--fictionals do hook you into their world rather quickly--but the plethora of 19 year-old megastars and 29 year-old living-dead-has-beens has me at a standstill. I'm just waiting on a patch, as the Rolling Stones might have sung.

[Twelvefield]

Lucrative, long-term contacts, signed mid-season, also seem to invite a ratings drop in my players. Could be coincidental, who knows?

[Doughnuts?]

Originally Posted by Twelvefield

Lucrative, long-term contacts, signed mid-season, also seem to invite a ratings drop in my players. Could be coincidental, who knows?

That and just about every other thing you could possibly do in the game, including doing nothing, causes a massive drop in ratings. Let's hope the patch fixes it. If not, you could write the epitaph for this game.

[Russ]

Very frustrating. I have a 40 year fictional league going and my career wins leader is at 242. Annoying doesn't begin to tell the story.

[Qrusher14242]

Yeah this happens all the time in all of the leagues i have. Especially noticable in Historical leagues. Must be why hitters are lasting longer, if the pitching is so terrible. Cant wait for the new patch

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by Russ

Very frustrating. I have a 40 year fictional league going and my career wins leader is at 242. Annoying doesn't begin to tell the story.

242? That, in a way, is very good news. There's only 4 current pitchers with more, Clemens, Maddux, Glavine, and Johnson.

With 5 man rotations amd 34 start seasons, that's pretty good. 242 means they averaged 17 wins a season for 14 years. Mix in 8 no decisions and 9 losses, and they guy is 242-126, a .657 winning %.

This hypothetical stacks up better than Bob Gibson. He looks identical to Juan Marichal.

Would you be happy with sims using modern pitcher settings and your top guy was 1% better than Gibson or Marichal?

[Doughnuts?]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

242? That, in a way, is very good news. There's only 4 current pitchers with more, Clemens, Maddux, Glavine, and Johnson.

With 5 man rotations amd 34 start seasons, that's pretty good. 242 means they averaged 17 wins a season for 14 years. Mix in 8 no decisions and 9 losses, and they guy is 242-126, a .657 winning %.

This hypothetical stacks up better than Bob Gibson. He looks identical to Juan Marichal.

Would you be happy with sims using modern pitcher settings and your top guy was 1% better than Gibson or Marichal?

This is sophistry. The game is broken, the developer has admitted as much. Is this argument for argument's sake, because on some level I can appreciate that, or do you believe the game is fine the way it is?

[KBLover]

This is interesting. I'm not saying there's no problem because I've seen it too, but I had a 42 year old closer still saving 30 games a year with a nice ERA until he suddenly dropped off.

Then there's the pitcher on my "all-female" team in an imported 6.12 league (the league isn't switching so I converted the league myself).

She's 35 and just now started dropping after being a 19-year old phenom in 6.12. She's got 282 career wins with a 2.07 ERA. (No aging/development modifier changes applied)

After reading the barrage of poor victims, I must have been blessed to have a pitcher like this (and the 42 year old closer too).

Of course, the pitcher she "grew up with" (both are young phenoms in the original league) caught the bug at, you guessed it, 29 and is now barely hanging on in the league at 33 - although, surprising, she's still 4th starter on the CPU team she's with now.

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by Doughnuts?

This is sophistry. The game is broken, the developer has admitted as much. Is this argument for argument's sake, because on some level I can appreciate that, or do you believe the game is fine the way it is?

Elements of the game need attention, yes, specifically aging.

The facts of the matter are that modern pitchers don't come close to 300 wins in real life. They don't get the starts in a 34 GS 5 man rotation. In the current crop, you have a genetic mutant, perhaps the greatest pitcher since Cy Young, a HoF pitcher who capitalized on being on the best team of his era, and a second freak of nature.

Glavine and Johnson type careers are being produced currently. Pitcher aging needs fixed so we can get those freaks of nature like Clemens.

I would not consider the game broken if it did not spit out a Clemens or Maddux every decade. I would consider it broken if it did.

This is what modern pitchers do.

1.	Roger Clemens (42)	341	R	
2.	Greg Maddux (39)	318	R	
3.	Tom Glavine* (39)	275	L	
4.	Randy Johnson* (41)	263	L	
5.	David Wells* (42)	227	L	
6.	Mike Mussina (36)	224	R	
7.	Kevin Brown (40)	211	R	
8.	Jamie Moyer* (42)	205	L	
9.	Pedro Martinez (33)	197	R	
10.	Curt Schilling (38)	192	R	
11.	Kenny Rogers* (40)	190	L	
12.	John Smoltz (38)	177	R	
13.	Andy Pettitte* (33)	172	L	
14.	Kevin Appier (37)	169	R	
15.	Al Leiter* (39)	                162	L	
16.	Tim Wakefield (38)	144	R	
17.	Scott Erickson (37)	142	R	
18.	Bartolo Colon (32)	139	R	
19.	Mike Hampton* (32)	138	L	
20.    Aaron Sele    (35)                      137        R

Out of that crop of pitchers, please list the guys who will win 20 more games in their careers.

I speculate Martinez, Rogers, and Pettite. You may have a different set.

Out of that 20, I see guys who are pitching their last seasons, are broken down 5.50 ERA types, or are so fragile that they can't be bellcow starters anymore ( Martinez specifically)

Nearly every one of those pitchers is on the precipice of disaster. Some have already fallen.

I want the game engine to produce pitchers like the above list when modern settings are used.

1. Cy Young+ 	        511	R	
2. Walter Johnson+ 	417	R	
3. Pete Alexander+ 	373	R	
   Christy Mathewson+ 	373	R	
5. Pud Galvin+ 	        364	R	
6. Warren Spahn+* 	363	L	
7. Kid Nichols+ 	361	R	
8. Tim Keefe+ 	        342	R	
9. Roger Clemens (42)	341	R	
10. Steve Carlton+* 	329	L	
11. John Clarkson+ 	328	R	
12. Eddie Plank+* 	326	L	
13. Nolan Ryan+ 	324	R	
     Don Sutton+ 	324	R	
15. Greg Maddux (39)	318	R	
     Phil Niekro+ 	318	R	
17. Gaylord Perry+ 	314	R	
18. Tom Seaver+ 	311	R	
19. Charley Radbourn+ 	309	R	
20. Mickey Welch+ 	307	R

If after 40 years, with modern settings, the leaderboard looks like that, then the game is broken, because pitchers dont get the starts or victories like they used to.

[bababui]

I thought this thread was about Flavor of Love 2

[gord]

I've had numerous relief pitchers save 40+ games in a season then hit the wall and go from 65 (20-80 scale) down to 30 in one season. This was, of course, after I signed him to a three-year extension.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by gord

I've had numerous relief pitchers save 40+ games in a season then hit the wall and go from 65 (20-80 scale) down to 30 in one season. This was, of course, after I signed him to a three-year extension.

That happens all the time in real life... how often was a reliever great one season, and then total waste the following years?

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

That happens all the time in real life... how often was a reliever great one season, and then total waste the following years?

Hmmm Rudy Seanez and Julian Tavarez quickly jump in my head.

[Mattymo]

I agree that some players hit walls after a few good seasons, but i'm seeing this happen way too much. In my league, all the teams with high payrolls are the worst teams, because they sign guys at 28, 29, then these guys end up going directly downhill. Meanwhile, the teams with the lowest payrolls have very young players (21-26) making the minimum, and they are winning titles every year.

My favorite player batted .362 as a 24 y/o with 15 HRs and 80 RBI out of the leadoff spot. By the time he was 28, he was in AAA batting .240. Horrible.

[tysok]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

1.	Roger Clemens (42)	341	R	
2.	Greg Maddux (39)	318	R	
3.	Tom Glavine* (39)	275	L	
4.	Randy Johnson* (41)	263	L	
5.	David Wells* (42)	227	L	
6.	Mike Mussina (36)	224	R	
7.	Kevin Brown (40)	211	R	
8.	Jamie Moyer* (42)	205	L	
9.	Pedro Martinez (33)	197	R	
10.	Curt Schilling (38)	192	R	
11.	Kenny Rogers* (40)	190	L	
12.	John Smoltz (38)	177	R	
13.	Andy Pettitte* (33)	172	L	
14.	Kevin Appier (37)	169	R	
15.	Al Leiter* (39)	                162	L	
16.	Tim Wakefield (38)	144	R	
17.	Scott Erickson (37)	142	R	
18.	Bartolo Colon (32)	139	R	
19.	Mike Hampton* (32)	138	L	
20.    Aaron Sele    (35)                      137        R

Currently, the only one of these guys the game is producing is a hyped up form of Hampton and Colon, with the genetic mutants becoming Mussina... if he's a genetic mutant and on circuit-oids (the computer equivalent of steroids) he'll turn out to be Glavine's age with the wins between Wells and Johnson.
The normal pitcher dies so early that a Kevin Appier or Al Leiter are dead long long before they see 100 wins. Colon, Hampton, and Pettite's win stat (in the game) is pretty much carved in stone at their age...

I don't think the problem is 242 wins, the problem is that those 242 wins were (maybe) accumulated on the best team in that league by the genetic mutant equivalent of that league's half century... and he died before the age of 35.
Just my guess.

Pitchers don't even get the chance at becoming those broken down old goats in your list in the game, because they've become the broken down old goat by the age of 32 or 33... instead of these 37-39.

[andymac]

Guys, wins is pretty much the worst measure of determining the accuracy of pitcher development that you can use.