MVP Candidate

scprideandms · 05-17-2006, 12:03 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...e=MLBHeadlines

Springer rocks!!!

even though I thought they meant "Jerry" when I saw the headline!!!

MorseMoose · 05-17-2006, 12:13 PM

Wow! An article that isn't premium content!

jaxmagicman · 05-17-2006, 12:27 PM

I watched the game and Springer probably should have been ejected after his 3rd pitch when it was obvious he was going to hit him.

abailey3313 · 05-17-2006, 12:42 PM

Nah, don't like that.

QuestGAV · 05-17-2006, 12:46 PM

His lack of control while trying to hit him was rather frightening.

abailey3313 · 05-17-2006, 12:49 PM

By the way, what "rocks" about a pitcher intentionally trying to hit a player with a 90+ MPH fastball?

The subliminal message of your post is that you don't like Bonds -- which I'm going to go out on a limb and assume is because of the steroid issue. If that's the case, where do you get the audacity to disapprove of a player "harming the game" in one way and then turn around and condone another player "harming the game" in another way?

Bonds never put anyone at risk of injury (except for himself, YMMV). Springer did. Suppose a 90+ MPH fast ball hit him in the head and caused serious physical damage?

Your statement that "Springer rocks" because he intentionally tried to hit a player with a fastball is stupid and reflects a very similar trait back onto you.

atarizx3 · 05-17-2006, 01:10 PM

I have no problem with a pitcher drilling Barry Bonds in the back. The head is obviously a different story, but beaning Bonds in the back or knees seems like a perfect way for "baseball" to get "back" at him for his transgressions, albeit "alleged".

Frankly, I'm surprised more pitchers haven't done so this season, rather than waste the 3 extra intentional balls to walk him.

andymac · 05-17-2006, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atarizx3

Frankly, I'm surprised more pitchers haven't done so this season, rather than waste the 3 extra intentional balls to walk him.

I would guess it has something to do with wanting to be able to pitch to the next batter.

abailey3313 · 05-17-2006, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atarizx3

I have no problem with a pitcher drilling Barry Bonds in the back. The head is obviously a different story, but beaning Bonds in the back or knees seems like a perfect way for "baseball" to get "back" at him for his transgressions, albeit "alleged".

Couple of points:

1. Intentionally hitting a player with a pitch is harmful to the game -- just like steroids or whatever else you want to put on Bonds. If "baseball" (pitchers, actually, considering no one pitcher represents the sport) wants to run it's self by the "two wrongs make a right" philosophy, then hey, go for it. Everybody enjoy the chaos and double standards.

2. You don't mind if they hits Bonds in his knees? The same ones that are so messed up that he can barely run to first base? That's directly messing with a person's livelihood. (And no, it doesn't matter how many millions he's made. There is a such thing as principle and integrity.) A pitcher targeting an opposing batter's obvious injury would be like if I were the manager of a fast food restaurant and hired a person who didn't speak a lick of English and assigned that person to work drive thru every night. It's directly jeopardizing that person's job.

His Own Bad Self · 05-17-2006, 01:38 PM

What about his armor-plated elbow? That seems like a reasonable target. If they're going to throw at anything - and I don't condone it - they might as well start there.

atarizx3 · 05-17-2006, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abailey3313

1. Intentionally hitting a player with a pitch is harmful to the game -- just like steroids or whatever else you want to put on Bonds. If "baseball" (pitchers, actually, considering no one pitcher represents the sport) wants to run it's self by the "two wrongs make a right" philosophy, then hey, go for it. Everybody enjoy the chaos and double standards.

What is your opinion on retaliation for HBP's or brushbacks? Those have been around for 100+ years, with remarkably few occasions in which it was permanently "harmful" to the player (other than the immediate pain of the batter). I've always been in the camp of "baseball must police itself", when it comes to brawls, brushbacks and beanings. Luckily baseball has avoided the chaos part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by abailey3313

2. You don't mind if they hits Bonds in his knees? The same ones that are so messed up that he can barely run to first base? That's directly messing with a person's livelihood. (And no, it doesn't matter how many millions he's made. There is a such thing as principle and integrity.) A pitcher targeting an opposing batter's obvious injury would be like if I were the manager of a fast food restaurant and hired a person who didn't speak a lick of English and assigned that person to work drive thru every night. It's directly jeopardizing that person's job.

IMO, the fast food/sports player injury analogy is a good one in theory. The concepts are there, and you're making sense. I understand that the pitcher holds a large amount of responsibility in hurling a ball period, whether it be at one's noggin or down the middle.

But my point is that these players have the VERY BEST physicians working on them when they get hurt, while Joe McBurgerFlipper has to wait in line in the ER for 4 hours, pay their $50 co-pay (if they even have insurance), and hopefully avoid being fixed by just some nurse practioner. So sure, the act of intentional injury is the same, but the effects of the injury are much different. Its a double standard I suppose, but that's my opinion.

As an added point, I never approve of anyone calling someone else's statement "stupid", as you did above. Uninformed maybe. Ignorant possibly. But disagreeing with someone's point does not make it stupid.

abailey3313 · 05-17-2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atarizx3

What is your opinion on retaliation for HBP's or brushbacks? Those have been around for 100+ years, with remarkably few occasions in which it was permanently "harmful" to the player (other than the immediate pain of the batter). I've always been in the camp of "baseball must police itself", when it comes to brawls, brushbacks and beanings. Luckily baseball has avoided the chaos part.

I would never say that I condone a player intentionally throwing at another player. Again, my reasoning for that is more because of the injury factor involved. More often than not a player isn't going to get seriously hurt -- but the possibility exists.

That said, I do understand retaliation type stuff. Don't condone it, but it makes sense to me. And it's an entirely different beast than hitting a player because they did something else that you feel is wrong. The two just don't have as much of a meeting point as a retaliation pitch does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by atarizx3

IMO, the fast food/sports player injury analogy is a good one in theory. The concepts are there, and you're making sense. I understand that the pitcher holds a large amount of responsibility in hurling a ball period, whether it be at one's noggin or down the middle.

But my point is that these players have the VERY BEST physicians working on them when they get hurt, while Joe McBurgerFlipper has to wait in line in the ER for 4 hours, pay their $50 co-pay (if they even have insurance), and hopefully avoid being fixed by just some nurse practioner. So sure, the act of intentional injury is the same, but the effects of the injury are much different. Its a double standard I suppose, but that's my opinion.

Yeah, it's not the greatest analogy in the world. But my point was more or less that, as major league baseball players, every player should have a mutual respect and understanding that their fellow players are working just as they are. Million dollar contracts or not, it's their job. And putting someone else's job in jeopardy is never kosher.

Quote:

Originally Posted by atarizx3

As an added point, I never approve of anyone calling someone else's statement "stupid", as you did above. Uninformed maybe. Ignorant possibly. But disagreeing with someone's point does not make it stupid.

Ignorant might have been the better word, yeah. I just don't see how a person can glorify someone intentionally throwing a baseball at someone else's body at 90 MPH. To me, that thought is stupid.

andymac · 05-17-2006, 02:16 PM

The thing is, Springer didn't really have much of a reason to throw at Bonds. Obviously he has a problem with him, but that should have been taken care of when he hit him the last time he had faced him.

By the way, Bonds' last 3 at-bats vs. Springer:

at bat 1: home run
at bat 2: hit-by-pitch
at bat 3: hit-by-pitch

It seems to me Mr. Springer is suffering from a bruised ego.

I actually think there are times when brushing a player or hitting him to make some sort of point is OK. However, noone knows what the hell Springer's point was.

abailey3313 · 05-17-2006, 08:48 PM

I just now saw the clip, and it looks like if Bonds has stood still, he probably would've been smacked on the chin.

Dougiestyle · 05-17-2006, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abailey3313

I just now saw the clip, and it looks like if Bonds has stood still, he probably would've been smacked on the chin.

I agree.

Elendil · 05-17-2006, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abailey3313

1. Intentionally hitting a player with a pitch is harmful to the game

Be careful about overgeneralizations. What if the other club beans your best hitter first? Is retaliation never justified? If retaliation never happened, we'd probably see a lot more intentional beanings, probably by scrub relievers sent out specifically for that purpose, because managers figure they might be able to get away with it without too much penalty.

Edit: ehhh, crap, never mind. Should've read the rest of the thread first.

UngratefulDead · 05-17-2006, 10:05 PM

Regardless of the incident behind it, that's a terribly written article. Why can't I be a sports journalist?

Faroo6 · 05-17-2006, 11:32 PM

Considering he threw a few sliders maybe he was legitimately trying to pitch inside to Bonds on the first four pitches. With a 3-1 count he just said **** it and drilled him.

marc · 05-17-2006, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

I watched the game and Springer probably should have been ejected after his 3rd pitch when it was obvious he was going to hit him.

"

I've never seen anything so obvious in my entire life.

fantom1979 · 05-18-2006, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

His lack of control while trying to hit him was rather frightening.

I agree..

I found it slightly amusing that Springer was trying to hit Bonds, but it took him 5 pitches to do it.

05-17-2006, 12:03 PM	#1
scprideandms All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: N KY, 25 miles from Cincy Posts: 1,314	MVP Candidate http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...e=MLBHeadlines Springer rocks!!! even though I thought they meant "Jerry" when I saw the headline!!! __________________ Change your playground + change your playfriends + change your playtoys + change your playtime = Change your life. If you keep on doing what you've always done you'll keep on gitting what you've always gotten.

05-17-2006, 12:27 PM	#3
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,801	I watched the game and Springer probably should have been ejected after his 3rd pitch when it was obvious he was going to hit him. __________________ See ID Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

05-17-2006, 12:42 PM	#4
abailey3313 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,718	Nah, don't like that. __________________

05-17-2006, 12:49 PM	#6
abailey3313 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,718	By the way, what "rocks" about a pitcher intentionally trying to hit a player with a 90+ MPH fastball? The subliminal message of your post is that you don't like Bonds -- which I'm going to go out on a limb and assume is because of the steroid issue. If that's the case, where do you get the audacity to disapprove of a player "harming the game" in one way and then turn around and condone another player "harming the game" in another way? Bonds never put anyone at risk of injury (except for himself, YMMV). Springer did. Suppose a 90+ MPH fast ball hit him in the head and caused serious physical damage? Your statement that "Springer rocks" because he intentionally tried to hit a player with a fastball is stupid and reflects a very similar trait back onto you. __________________

05-17-2006, 01:10 PM	#7
atarizx3 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Allenstown, NH Posts: 987	I have no problem with a pitcher drilling Barry Bonds in the back. The head is obviously a different story, but beaning Bonds in the back or knees seems like a perfect way for "baseball" to get "back" at him for his transgressions, albeit "alleged". Frankly, I'm surprised more pitchers haven't done so this season, rather than waste the 3 extra intentional balls to walk him. __________________

05-17-2006, 12:13 PM	#2
MorseMoose Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 6,023 Infractions: 1/1 (1)	Wow! An article that isn't premium content!

05-17-2006, 12:46 PM	#5
QuestGAV Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 2,010	His lack of control while trying to hit him was rather frightening.

05-17-2006, 01:38 PM	#10
His Own Bad Self All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,221	What about his armor-plated elbow? That seems like a reasonable target. If they're going to throw at anything - and I don't condone it - they might as well start there.

05-17-2006, 02:16 PM	#13
andymac Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Effingham, IL Posts: 5,725	The thing is, Springer didn't really have much of a reason to throw at Bonds. Obviously he has a problem with him, but that should have been taken care of when he hit him the last time he had faced him. By the way, Bonds' last 3 at-bats vs. Springer: at bat 1: home run at bat 2: hit-by-pitch at bat 3: hit-by-pitch It seems to me Mr. Springer is suffering from a bruised ego. I actually think there are times when brushing a player or hitting him to make some sort of point is OK. However, noone knows what the hell Springer's point was. __________________ June Madness: Links FTB: andymac

05-17-2006, 08:48 PM	#14
abailey3313 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,718	I just now saw the clip, and it looks like if Bonds has stood still, he probably would've been smacked on the chin. __________________

05-17-2006, 10:05 PM	#17
UngratefulDead Banned Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 3,415	Regardless of the incident behind it, that's a terribly written article. Why can't I be a sports journalist?