Team Chemistry

[White Sox]

I don't think there is anyone who can deny that clubhouse chemistry is one of the biggest intangibles that can make the difference between a championship team and a contender. Will there be anything like this when determining the make up of a player? I haven't played since OOTP5, but I believe there is a Leadership rating. I know this is similar, but poor leadership doesn't necessarily equal clubhouse cancer. I think that would be a nice little addition. Something else to worry about when putting together a team.

[andymac]

Originally Posted by Waninski

I don't think there is anyone who can deny that clubhouse chemistry is one of the biggest intangibles that can make the difference between a championship team and a contender. Will there be anything like this when determining the make up of a player? I haven't played since OOTP5, but I believe there is a Leadership rating. I know this is similar, but poor leadership doesn't necessarily equal clubhouse cancer. I think that would be a nice little addition. Something else to worry about.

Actually, I think there will be many who say clubhouse chemistry means very little. At the same time, I would definitely like to see "player personalities" mean more. However, I don't think they should factor in much (if any) in terms of winning. They should matter more as far as players' decisions on where to play.

[White Sox]

Originally Posted by andymac

Actually, I think there will be many who say clubhouse chemistry means very little. At the same time, I would definitely like to see "player personalities" mean more. However, I don't think they should factor in much (if any) in terms of winning. They should matter more as far as players' decisions on where to play.

Coming from Effingham, I think you would get a good enough look at the White Sox to understand how a team like they and the Red Sox are able to win the WS, while the Yankees, for example, can never make it there. Sure, it's convenient to say the winners were "better", but that all starts in the clubhouse. Bringing together too many bloated superstars breeds implosion. I think you're more along the lines of a general personality rating, which would affect where someone might want to play. But that's really the Loyalty rating. I'm looking more for a "Gets Along Well with Others" Rating.

[DrArbiter]

Originally Posted by Waninski

the Yankees, for example, can never make it there.

Really? I thought they had a pretty good decade.

Historically, the good Yankees teams invented and defined the famous expression, "25 men, 25 cabs."

[Zitofan75]

The Oakland A's from '72-'74 were at war with each other and with the owner yet somehow they managed to string together three consecutive World Series wins, one of two teams in the last 40 years to pull that off (the other of course was the '98-'00 Yankees). Chemistry only goes so far. Bloated egos and surly characters abounded in the clubhouse but they still beat people on the field and beat each other off of it.

[GagneRocks]

I think the biggest key to good clubhouse chemistry is winning. All the problems seem to minimize, but when you start losing you don't let things slide that you once did and most people aren't happy when they aren't winning in general so even teams with naturally good chemistry don't seem to have the best when things aren't falling into place.

[Zitofan75]

Maybe clubhouse chemistry should very in importance from league to league. The Japanese consider it of paramount importance. Additionally they used to (and perhaps still do) forbid the players from having sex with their wives for 10 months out of the year so as not to drain any energy out of them.

I'm not advocating we code that last bit though.

[bigdgp2]

In my opinion, winning can create chemistry in the clubhouse. However, chemistry does not create wins.

[treedom]

If team chemistry gets in, then team biology and team physics should as well.

[jbsnadb]

I failed Team Calculus.

[danjel]

What about Team Home Economics? Team English Literature? Dare I say.. Team Sex Education?

[ihatenames]

As stated earlier i don't mind if this makes in the game under signing. I can see team chemistry making a difference as to whether or not the guy will take a discount to stay with the team or want extra money to stay with the team. But as far as wins, there may be a bonus to team chemistry but its most likely buried under noise and chance and therefor not worth adding IMO.

[Left-handed Badger]

Originally Posted by Waninski

Coming from Effingham, I think you would get a good enough look at the White Sox to understand how a team like they and the Red Sox are able to win the WS, while the Yankees, for example, can never make it there. Sure, it's convenient to say the winners were "better", but that all starts in the clubhouse. Bringing together too many bloated superstars breeds implosion. I think you're more along the lines of a general personality rating, which would affect where someone might want to play. But that's really the Loyalty rating. I'm looking more for a "Gets Along Well with Others" Rating.

Yankees are good example. They have more talent nowadays. But they had better chemistry in those string of championships in the late 90s. People like Boggs (downside of career) and Sojo (utility at best) seemed to give that team that special something. Heck, O'Neill was a good leader in ways, too. Sure, he'd go all temper tantrum on a bad at bat. But, it dang well brought intensity. And notice since he retired Yanks aint been to another Series. Chemistry might not matter so much in the high points of the season, but when the team is having that bad 2 week stretch where they cant do anything right (happens to every team at some point during season) it is what pulls you out.

Having said that, dont know if I want that in game. It would have to be done right. If it cant be done right, then it is crap. Going to EA. Madden adding in some kind of thing with a "mood" factor thing. But, it never worked right. I had to Garrison Hearst every time from Broncos. He was a virtual cancer. He would get mad for lack of playing time. Then (when simming) the team would go in the crapper when his mood went to red level. When in real life, he was kind of a leader of sorts for the young players that year. So, if this factor is added to OOTP, it would have to account for that "aging vet" who had been a star taking a back seat to the kids and teaching them all his knowledge. While he may only get 5-10 ABs a week if that.

I guess it goes back to what my dad said one time a long time ago about computer sports games. "They're interesting, but you cant simulate intensity, desire and chemistry". (Though compared to then which was 15 years ago, we can get closer)

Note: This wasnt EXACTLY what my dad said, after 15+ years ago, but it is pretty close

2nd Note: You know, my dad said a lot of things that make sense to me now. Maybe i should have listened more to him then.

[Left-handed Badger]

Originally Posted by Zitofan75

Maybe clubhouse chemistry should very in importance from league to league. The Japanese consider it of paramount importance. Additionally they used to (and perhaps still do) forbid the players from having sex with their wives for 10 months out of the year so as not to drain any energy out of them.

I'm not advocating we code that last bit though.

Not letting them have sex?

Knowing some sport stars personalities (yes, I am looking at you Mr. Chamberlain) we will have to deal every once in a while with an e-mail from office personnel reading:

We report that such-and such went crazy due to his sexual frustration, and went into a violent rampage, destroying 3 bars, and a convenience store. You will need to post his bail.

[Twelvefield]

The way the Japanese players practise, I think it's amazing that they have the energy to play ball, let alone deal with sex.

[Muppetus Galacticus]

Originally Posted by Zitofan75

Maybe clubhouse chemistry should very in importance from league to league. The Japanese consider it of paramount importance. Additionally they used to (and perhaps still do) forbid the players from having sex with their wives for 10 months out of the year so as not to drain any energy out of them.

I'm not advocating we code that last bit though.

Can they still have sex with other women on a boat?

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by Waninski

I don't think there is anyone who can deny that clubhouse chemistry is one of the biggest intangibles that can make the difference between a championship team and a contender.

I can deny it, and I played at every level except the professional. Players can all hate one another and still have a winning team; what's important is OBP, SLG, and R/9. "Team chemistry" is not only overrated, it shouldn't even be rated at all. In fact, I suspect "team chemistry" is something a bored sportswriter who didn't understand anything about sabermetrics came up with.

If you want intangibles, I'll give you the only two I ever saw mean anything: first, the burning drive to win; and, second, the relentless pursuit of excellence.

And with or without those two "intangibles" if you put up great numbers you can hate everyone else on your team or not care about them one way or the other and still be a deadly force for W's.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by Zitofan75

The Oakland A's from '72-'74 were at war with each other and with the owner yet somehow they managed to string together three consecutive World Series wins, one of two teams in the last 40 years to pull that off (the other of course was the '98-'00 Yankees). Chemistry only goes so far. Bloated egos and surly characters abounded in the clubhouse but they still beat people on the field and beat each other off of it.

There are many other examples but this is a classic one.

[emysdk]

Baseball (along with cricket for those who care ) is really an individual sport masquerading as a team sport (for the most part, at least). I would imagine that if you have a talented enough pool of players they will succeed, no matter how much they dislike each other, as they're just that good at what they do. Good team chemistry might possibly, on the other hand, give a group of less talented players a bit of an edge against a similarly talented group of players - they'll be willing to fight for each other more and put in a bit extra.

Team chemistry is probably something much more relevant to team sports like ice hockey, basketball and soccer, where players can develop an instinctive understanding of each other and work better together. Fundamentally the difference is that the creativity in baseball comes from what the pitcher does and how the batter reacts, while the creativity in other sports comes from how team mates make use of each other.

That's my opinion, anyway.

[danjel]

In cricket, an overly keen batter who doesn't really think about his teammates can make the following mistakes (to name a few):
- go for that extra run, wherever his teammate is up or down the pitch and wherever the ball happens to be;
- keep trying to hit the ball over the fence when it'd be safer to block or at least pop shorter;
- ignore advice or signals from other members of his team.

I imagine that the same can and does happen in baseball. Let's not go into the disasters of bad teamwork that can happen when fielding...

It's also the off-field stuff. Recently, an Australian rugby player was found with cocaine traces in his blood and will (pending the results of a b-sample test) probably be banned from the game. Sailor's career is basicly screwed at this point.

The effect on the team could be negligible, after all, Sailor is replaceable. However, said player is one of it's veterans and the Waratahs are heading into the semi-finals this weekend. My tip for the week is that, regardless of the fact that the Waratahs are probably the better side, they are going to get caned this weekend by the Hurricanes. Why?

Team chemistry is where it's at. It has an effect on the statistics that the team generates because it affects the way the team works as a team.

We can argue quantatitative versus qualitative until the cows come home, but it doesn't matter. Yes, you can't measure team chemistry with a number, but, yes, it does have an effect on the way the team handles.