Player ratings/creation

GForce · 11-21-2005, 11:52 PM

PLEASE make it so that you can enter raw stats and the game will give you ratings, instead of having to enter a rating. Or at least make it a toggle option. So much easier when it comes to roster development to enter stats than ratings. Ratings are subject to significantly more guesswork.

GH

Steve Kuffrey · 11-22-2005, 03:17 AM

Yes, good suggestion.

Eugene Church · 11-26-2005, 08:20 AM

A wonderful suggestion.

Tresclub · 11-26-2005, 09:18 PM

A mega-suggestion!!!

GForce · 11-28-2005, 06:00 PM

Glad others agree with this. Markus has told me he wasn't going to know/decide how rosters would be handled until January, probably. But hopefully this would be quite easy to implement, since it was previously done that way.

GH

bp_ · 11-28-2005, 10:19 PM

a grand idea

Dan Theman · 11-28-2005, 10:39 PM

Didn't we once have something like this that then got phased out, or am I thinking of another game? Regardless, it certainly would make things much easier.

GForce · 11-28-2005, 10:43 PM

yup, it used to be that way back when I did the rosters for the game. Hopefully, at least the option will be there for it to be that way again.

GH

QuestGAV · 11-29-2005, 12:14 PM

Hmm, what stats would translate to what ratings? Presumably it works differently now because the engine works differently. You can't translate opponent BA directly into a pitching rating in a DIPS based system and you would have to extrapolate things like gap power out of multiple numbers. I'm not sure what you're asking for is quite as simple as it might appear.

flubug31 · 11-29-2005, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

Hmm, what stats would translate to what ratings? Presumably it works differently now because the engine works differently. You can't translate opponent BA directly into a pitching rating in a DIPS based system and you would have to extrapolate things like gap power out of multiple numbers. I'm not sure what you're asking for is quite as simple as it might appear.

Historical players have ratings created from their stat lines. What's the difference?

theasfl · 11-29-2005, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

Hmm, what stats would translate to what ratings? Presumably it works differently now because the engine works differently. You can't translate opponent BA directly into a pitching rating in a DIPS based system and you would have to extrapolate things like gap power out of multiple numbers. I'm not sure what you're asking for is quite as simple as it might appear.

pretty much what I was thinking...I remember the old days when it was easy to set ratings by putting in the stats you desire, but with this system it wont work and I dont know whether I liked the old system better or this one; if it were possible to combine the two however...Markus will be swimming in strippers come April.

theasfl · 11-29-2005, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flubug31

Historical players have ratings created from their stat lines. What's the difference?

those are done by database and roster creators, its not programmed into the game.

andymac · 11-29-2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theasfl

those are done by database and roster creators, its not programmed into the game.

It is programmed into the game how to import from the database (which is just statistics) into ratings.

QuestGAV · 11-29-2005, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymac

It is programmed into the game how to import from the database (which is just statistics) into ratings.

That's a good point. It does have the ability to take all of those statistics as a whole rather than inputting a single number and converting it to a rating though.

andymac · 11-29-2005, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

That's a good point. It does have the ability to take all of those statistics as a whole rather than inputting a single number and converting it to a rating though.

That is the way I would rather see it done. I'd like to see the game ask for all of the statistics it uses when importing a player from a database when you are creating a player (or rating players). It would make things much easier for roster creators.

QuestGAV · 11-29-2005, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymac

That is the way I would rather see it done. I'd like to see the game ask for all of the statistics it uses when importing a player from a database when you are creating a player (or rating players). It would make things much easier for roster creators.

Then roster creators are projecting whole statlines, which seems even less reliable than projecting ratings. I suppose it doesn't hurt for the ability to be there, but does it really simplify life for roster creators?

It would be nice to have the game create a skeleton database or spreadsheet that you can fill in with all your player's stats (or ratings) along with their characteristics so that no one has to use the in-game interface for something it wasn't really designed to do on such a large scale.

andymac · 11-29-2005, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

Then roster creators are projecting whole statlines, which seems even less reliable than projecting ratings. I suppose it doesn't hurt for the ability to be there, but does it really simplify life for roster creators?

It would be nice to have the game create a skeleton database or spreadsheet that you can fill in with all your player's stats (or ratings) along with their characteristics so that no one has to use the in-game interface for something it wasn't really designed to do on such a large scale.

Well, I think most roster creators use statistics already (typically last year's numbers) as the base to their ratings. There are also many different places where you can get predicted statistics for the upcoming season (which is what I would use to create a roster set). So, the roster creator wouldn't really be coming up with the statlines themselves in most cases (though they could). I believe this is how GForce went about it during his roster creation hey day.

ctorg · 11-30-2005, 12:12 PM

Add me on as thinking this is a good idea. I think it was my complaining that got the ability to import OOTP5-style back into the game for this very reason.

Dogzilla · 12-04-2005, 12:25 PM

I prefer to enter ratings, but if there's a toggle to do it either way, that would suit everyone.

SandMan · 12-04-2005, 12:47 PM

I would like to see the best of ratings vs. stats input. Why not have the game input be ratings but then when have an expected stats line shown for the ratings entered. It would be much easier to have to have a database of the 10 or so ratings fields, this also would allow you to enter different values for the splits also. So if you enter the ratings for a player it will spit out a reports stating something like:

Joe Blow .240 600 144 18 3 17
Joe Blow .255 600 153 22 4 25
Joe Blow .270 600 162 28 5 33

The three lines would represent a lo, mid and hi expectations (the reals stats could have more data printed - I used avg, ab, h, 2b, 3b, hr) Of course the stat lines are what a player should or could be. You still need the development factors included with some developing others not so much....

Because of simple luck the difference of 18 hits in 162 games is 1 extra hit per 9 games so this is very feasible. Also the 2b, 3b, hr are not prorated numbers but lo-hi expectations. You could get the .270 with 17 homers. This would be nice because the input for players could be a simple ratings system and then the roster creator could just adjust for the players that did not rate well. A lot easier method and more native to the game itself - no conversion required by the game. Also the only ratings needed for defense would be range and fa. The game as it is now gives you unreliable ratings from the input of stats. This would allow defenses from across different eras to be more consistant and a good player in the deadball era would not be a terrible fielder in the modern era because of equipment changes and the lower FA of the past.

I like this because you can now enter the same stats for two players and get two different sets of ratings and careers anyway. This just makes it an easier input and you get the same basic output of stats. The game is based on ratings so entering the ratings is already putting the player creation in the games "native" language...

Giving you a translation report shows you that the ratings entered will give you the stats you expect but in a range so that it is not an exact science....

The down side to this is that the roster creators now use the lahman database structure as the model for input. but putting the stats into a database and rating them in groups would be a way of still using lahmans but the creating a ratings database for the game to use....

Just an idea....

11-21-2005, 11:52 PM	#1
GForce Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,458 Infractions: 0/2 (2)	Player ratings/creation PLEASE make it so that you can enter raw stats and the game will give you ratings, instead of having to enter a rating. Or at least make it a toggle option. So much easier when it comes to roster development to enter stats than ratings. Ratings are subject to significantly more guesswork. GH

11-22-2005, 03:17 AM	#2
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,035	Yes, good suggestion. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

11-28-2005, 10:19 PM	#6
bp_ Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 2,804	a grand idea __________________ Commish: Over The Mound

11-30-2005, 12:12 PM	#18
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Add me on as thinking this is a good idea. I think it was my complaining that got the ability to import OOTP5-style back into the game for this very reason. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

12-04-2005, 12:47 PM	#20
SandMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,946	Best of Both Worlds.... I would like to see the best of ratings vs. stats input. Why not have the game input be ratings but then when have an expected stats line shown for the ratings entered. It would be much easier to have to have a database of the 10 or so ratings fields, this also would allow you to enter different values for the splits also. So if you enter the ratings for a player it will spit out a reports stating something like: Joe Blow .240 600 144 18 3 17 Joe Blow .255 600 153 22 4 25 Joe Blow .270 600 162 28 5 33 The three lines would represent a lo, mid and hi expectations (the reals stats could have more data printed - I used avg, ab, h, 2b, 3b, hr) Of course the stat lines are what a player should or could be. You still need the development factors included with some developing others not so much.... Because of simple luck the difference of 18 hits in 162 games is 1 extra hit per 9 games so this is very feasible. Also the 2b, 3b, hr are not prorated numbers but lo-hi expectations. You could get the .270 with 17 homers. This would be nice because the input for players could be a simple ratings system and then the roster creator could just adjust for the players that did not rate well. A lot easier method and more native to the game itself - no conversion required by the game. Also the only ratings needed for defense would be range and fa. The game as it is now gives you unreliable ratings from the input of stats. This would allow defenses from across different eras to be more consistant and a good player in the deadball era would not be a terrible fielder in the modern era because of equipment changes and the lower FA of the past. I like this because you can now enter the same stats for two players and get two different sets of ratings and careers anyway. This just makes it an easier input and you get the same basic output of stats. The game is based on ratings so entering the ratings is already putting the player creation in the games "native" language... Giving you a translation report shows you that the ratings entered will give you the stats you expect but in a range so that it is not an exact science.... The down side to this is that the roster creators now use the lahman database structure as the model for input. but putting the stats into a database and rating them in groups would be a way of still using lahmans but the creating a ratings database for the game to use.... Just an idea.... Last edited by SandMan; 12-04-2005 at 12:53 PM.

11-26-2005, 08:20 AM	#3
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 36,205	A wonderful suggestion.

11-26-2005, 09:18 PM	#4
Tresclub All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: La Mesa, CA USA Posts: 1,908	A mega-suggestion!!!

11-28-2005, 06:00 PM	#5
GForce Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,458 Infractions: 0/2 (2)	Glad others agree with this. Markus has told me he wasn't going to know/decide how rosters would be handled until January, probably. But hopefully this would be quite easy to implement, since it was previously done that way. GH

11-28-2005, 10:43 PM	#8
GForce Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,458 Infractions: 0/2 (2)	yup, it used to be that way back when I did the rosters for the game. Hopefully, at least the option will be there for it to be that way again. GH

11-29-2005, 12:14 PM	#9
QuestGAV Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 2,010	Hmm, what stats would translate to what ratings? Presumably it works differently now because the engine works differently. You can't translate opponent BA directly into a pitching rating in a DIPS based system and you would have to extrapolate things like gap power out of multiple numbers. I'm not sure what you're asking for is quite as simple as it might appear.

12-04-2005, 12:25 PM	#19
Dogzilla Major Leagues Join Date: May 2004 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 421	I prefer to enter ratings, but if there's a toggle to do it either way, that would suit everyone.