Support for "Odd" Leagues?

professor ape · 03-26-2006, 12:20 PM

I am hoping to set up a 30 team league with two sub-leauges of three five team divisions. I have been working on a schedule that supports an odd number of teams in each league and I think that I have it nailed.

Is the game going to give me any trouble if I set up my leagues this way?

f.montoya · 03-26-2006, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by professor ape

I am hoping to set up a 30 team league with two sub-leauges of three five team divisions. I have been working on a schedule that supports an odd number of teams in each league and I think that I have it nailed.

Is the game going to give me any trouble if I set up my leagues this way?

I believe you could just delete a team and import your schedule. I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Markmeister · 03-26-2006, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f.montoya

I believe you could just delete a team and import your schedule. I don't see why it wouldn't work.

That should work, unless something has changed.

OOTP has never allowed 'odd' leagues at league creation because the schedule creation could not handle an odd number of teams. By creating your own schedule, you eliminate this problem.

silvam14 · 03-26-2006, 02:08 PM

I thought you needed to have an even number of teams per sub league

professor ape · 03-26-2006, 02:33 PM

It would be great to get some official word about this. I may rethink my league structure if I am going to have to do a workaround to make it work.

Chappy · 03-26-2006, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvam14

I thought you needed to have an even number of teams per sub league

In the current version of the game you do - to create the league. But, as said earlier, you can then delete or add a team to get an odd number of teams. As long as you use a custom schedule, you're good to go.

Long_Long_Name · 03-27-2006, 10:59 PM

I never understood why you needed an even number of teams. Can anyone enlighten me?

Ktulu · 03-27-2006, 11:07 PM

Quote:

I never understood why you needed an even number of teams. Can anyone enlighten me?

Because generating a schedule using odd numbered teams is not easy(off days etc.). I'm sure LGO can explain

Le Grande Orange · 03-28-2006, 01:09 AM

Here's the problem (and it'll be the same in OOTP2006 as it was in OOTP6):

When you set up a league with an odd number of teams, once the game actually begins to create that league, it needs to generate a schedule for it. But since the game's built-in schedule generator cannot handle an odd number of teams in a league, it folds up and the game crashes.

The workaround to this is pretty simple: set up a league with an even number of teams. That'll get the league created without any issues and it'll have a schedule file. Next, either add, delete, or move a team to get the odd number of teams alignment that you're looking for. Then use the schedule editor to delete the existing schedule (since it'll no longer fit your new arrangement) and import a manually created schedule file that matches your new league alignment. The game will then run fine.

And, yes, creating a decent schedule is challenging enough with an even number of teams. Trying to do that with an odd number of teams is simply asking too much. Human minds are much better suited to the task.

Long_Long_Name · 03-28-2006, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Here's the problem (and it'll be the same in OOTP2006 as it was in OOTP6):

When you set up a league with an odd number of teams, once the game actually begins to create that league, it needs to generate a schedule for it. But since the game's built-in schedule generator cannot handle an odd number of teams in a league, it folds up and the game crashes.

The workaround to this is pretty simple: set up a league with an even number of teams. That'll get the league created without any issues and it'll have a schedule file. Next, either add, delete, or move a team to get the odd number of teams alignment that you're looking for. Then use the schedule editor to delete the existing schedule (since it'll no longer fit your new arrangement) and import a manually created schedule file that matches your new league alignment. The game will then run fine.

And, yes, creating a decent schedule is challenging enough with an even number of teams. Trying to do that with an odd number of teams is simply asking too much. Human minds are much better suited to the task.

We know that

.

We were inquiring your brains about why it's not possible. Is it just a faulty aspect of the game, or is there a real scheduling problem with odd teams that has nothing to do with OOTP?

rudel.dietrich · 03-28-2006, 01:18 AM

Seems to me if a human brain can do it, then so can a CPU one.

Le Grande Orange · 03-28-2006, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

Seems to me if a human brain can do it, then so can a CPU one.

Feel free to come up with the algorithms for it, and which create a good output. If you can, then walk over to MLB and they'll pay you a six-figure sum to create their schedule each year.

MLB schedules can take as much as six months to create and still involve a lot of hand-creation by human beings.

theasfl · 03-28-2006, 02:39 AM

The fundamental problem is an odd number of teams leaves one team off each day of the season. This leads to problems with putting series together. If it werent 2 in the morning I would put more thought into the mathmatics involved in how leaving one team off each day could essentially kill the ability of an x game schedule in a season of y days pretty easily.

Long_Long_Name · 03-28-2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theasfl

The fundamental problem is an odd number of teams leaves one team off each day of the season. This leads to problems with putting series together. If it werent 2 in the morning I would put more thought into the mathmatics involved in how leaving one team off each day could essentially kill the ability of an x game schedule in a season of y days pretty easily.

I still fail to understand :S.

professor ape · 03-28-2006, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theasfl

The fundamental problem is an odd number of teams leaves one team off each day of the season. This leads to problems with putting series together. If it werent 2 in the morning I would put more thought into the mathmatics involved in how leaving one team off each day could essentially kill the ability of an x game schedule in a season of y days pretty easily.

The key is that you need to have two leagues with odd numbers of teams and then have at least one interleague series going at all times so that everyone can be playing.

It's been a really fun puzzle to come up with a template for a 30 team league with three divisions of five teams in each of the leagues. At least it has been keeping me busy while waiting for the new version.

bababui · 03-28-2006, 07:51 PM

Professor Ape shouldnt monkey around with league structures!

Le Grande Orange · 03-28-2006, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by professor ape

The key is that you need to have two leagues with odd numbers of teams and then have at least one interleague series going at all times so that everyone can be playing.

Actually, that's not strictly true. A combination of 2-game series and allowing a team to have two days off in a row in the first part of the week will allow an interleague series to only take place on the weekend, i.e. Fri-Sat-Sun.

However, you can't do that for the entire season. But you could use this method for a period of weeks to limit things to just a single interleague series on the weekend.

Theoretically, at least. I've never actually tried to put this together, but it should work.

rudel.dietrich · 03-28-2006, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Feel free to come up with the algorithms for it, and which create a good output. If you can, then walk over to MLB and they'll pay you a six-figure sum to create their schedule each year.

I already have a baseball job silly

sporr · 03-29-2006, 10:58 AM

I've always been curious about how the schedules are created (especially after reading the other thread about the people who put together the MLB schedules). What is the process? They somehow use some computer program to put together the basic structure with errors and then they go through and move games around and switch teams to get something that works? How many rules given by MLB do they have to follow? I'm very interested in the process only because you wouldn't think it would take that long to do (even though I know it does).

Cras · 03-29-2006, 11:51 AM

From what I heard a couple makes up the entire schedule for MLB by hand every year and have done so for quite some time now.

03-26-2006, 12:20 PM	#1
professor ape All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The belly of the beast Posts: 1,498	Support for "Odd" Leagues? I am hoping to set up a 30 team league with two sub-leauges of three five team divisions. I have been working on a schedule that supports an odd number of teams in each league and I think that I have it nailed. Is the game going to give me any trouble if I set up my leagues this way?

03-27-2006, 10:59 PM	#7
Long_Long_Name Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Montréal Posts: 7,065	I never understood why you needed an even number of teams. Can anyone enlighten me? __________________ Beta Baseball. Join it!

03-28-2006, 01:09 AM	#9
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,642	Here's the problem (and it'll be the same in OOTP2006 as it was in OOTP6): When you set up a league with an odd number of teams, once the game actually begins to create that league, it needs to generate a schedule for it. But since the game's built-in schedule generator cannot handle an odd number of teams in a league, it folds up and the game crashes. The workaround to this is pretty simple: set up a league with an even number of teams. That'll get the league created without any issues and it'll have a schedule file. Next, either add, delete, or move a team to get the odd number of teams alignment that you're looking for. Then use the schedule editor to delete the existing schedule (since it'll no longer fit your new arrangement) and import a manually created schedule file that matches your new league alignment. The game will then run fine. And, yes, creating a decent schedule is challenging enough with an even number of teams. Trying to do that with an odd number of teams is simply asking too much. Human minds are much better suited to the task. Last edited by Le Grande Orange; 03-28-2006 at 01:11 AM.

03-28-2006, 02:39 AM	#13
theasfl Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Coral Springs, FL or Orlando, FL (UCF) Posts: 7,988	The fundamental problem is an odd number of teams leaves one team off each day of the season. This leads to problems with putting series together. If it werent 2 in the morning I would put more thought into the mathmatics involved in how leaving one team off each day could essentially kill the ability of an x game schedule in a season of y days pretty easily. __________________ All-Sports Fantasy League The ASFL 22 different games, 9 sports. Please check out the website (www.theasfl.com/asfl2/). The league is free- if you're interested please fill out the signup form and/or email the commissioner. Miami Talons (ABL): 2004, 2005 & 2008 Champs

03-29-2006, 11:51 AM	#20
Cras Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: LEO Posts: 3,789	From what I heard a couple makes up the entire schedule for MLB by hand every year and have done so for quite some time now. __________________ The Chicago White Sox 1906, 1917, 2005 World Series Champions 1900, 1901, 1906, 1917, 1919, 1959, 2005 American League Champions 2000, 2005, 2008 American League Central Division Champions 1983, 1993 American League West Division Champions OOTP \| Orbiter \| SSMS \| FSX \| LoL \| MLP:FIM!

03-26-2006, 02:08 PM	#4
silvam14 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dedham, MA Posts: 10,215	I thought you needed to have an even number of teams per sub league

03-26-2006, 02:33 PM	#5
professor ape All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The belly of the beast Posts: 1,498	It would be great to get some official word about this. I may rethink my league structure if I am going to have to do a workaround to make it work.

03-28-2006, 01:18 AM	#11
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608	Seems to me if a human brain can do it, then so can a CPU one.

03-28-2006, 07:51 PM	#16
bababui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14,147 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Professor Ape shouldnt monkey around with league structures!

03-29-2006, 10:58 AM	#19
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	I've always been curious about how the schedules are created (especially after reading the other thread about the people who put together the MLB schedules). What is the process? They somehow use some computer program to put together the basic structure with errors and then they go through and move games around and switch teams to get something that works? How many rules given by MLB do they have to follow? I'm very interested in the process only because you wouldn't think it would take that long to do (even though I know it does).