Player popularity

[beorn]

One feature that I thought was not well implemented in 6.5 was player popularity. It did add some strategy to the game, but not in a very realistic way, and I am wondering where this will go in the new game.

Player popularity in real life is a lot more dynamic. A highly rated rookie brings in fans. Trading for an established marquee player brings in fans. To some extent this is also true for ordinary players who have played on championship teams.

But it also doesn't take too long for a city to sour on a guy who is slumping, especially if he is highly paid. Acquire a big name and watch your attendance rise. But if he slumps for a season and a half and you trade him, there is no way fans quit coming to the park.

On the other side, that hotshot rookie really adds to attendance for a while, but as he turns out to be an average player, he quits having any effect at all.

Pitcher jumps out to a 15-2 record, and you bet the attendance is higher when he pitches. But next season when he reverts to form as an above average but pretty ordinary hurler, he has little effect on attendance.

Player looking for a milestone, same general thing.

Anyway, I don't know how possible it is to code some of these things into the game, but I am curious how the new version plans to deal with player popularity.

[LilRedMachine]

I've never really paid much attention to the popularity of a player. Occassionally I get the "Fans are pleased/upset" message, and I'll peek at my overall fan interest to see the affect.

Have you noticed if a popular player can lose his popularity over time? I'm thinking of guys like Jr. Griffey and Giambi IRL as examples. Jr. pretty much fell off the map outside of Cincy over the last few seasons, and even though Giambi was in the news a lot last year, I'm sure it wasn't because he was a popular guy.

[dmanrules111]

The player popularity was flawed to say the least. Hopefully it will be a lot better with the total re-write.

[disposableheros]

Originally Posted by LilRedMachine

I've never really paid much attention to the popularity of a player. Occassionally I get the "Fans are pleased/upset" message, and I'll peek at my overall fan interest to see the affect.

Have you noticed if a popular player can lose his popularity over time? I'm thinking of guys like Jr. Griffey and Giambi IRL as examples. Jr. pretty much fell off the map outside of Cincy over the last few seasons, and even though Giambi was in the news a lot last year, I'm sure it wasn't because he was a popular guy.

local pop fluctuates up and down frequently throughout the season, partially depending on how well the player is currently playing. on the other hand, i rarely see national pop move.

[Impossible2Refute]

[QUOTE=beorn
Pitcher jumps out to a 15-2 record, and you bet the attendance is higher when he pitches. But next season when he reverts to form as an above average but pretty ordinary hurler, he has little effect on attendance.

Player looking for a milestone, same general thing.
[/QUOTE]

This is something I've put some thought into. I'm sure the Astros attendence was better when Roger Clemens pitched than bradon backe. Will there be better attendence at a game due to a star pitcher? Or a hitter going for his 500th homerun?

[Jonzard]

Yes, this could definately be improved. Its impact could be a little larger than it is right now. Although, you have to be careful not to over-do it. That would be worse than how popularity works right now.

[battists]

I wouldn't be surprised if it went away entirely. It added relatively little, and Markus has already stated that some of the other front-office type stuff like promotions will be going away. When you think about it, it seems like most of the marketing-related stuff will be going away, and this kind of ties in there.

[Kelric]

Originally Posted by Jonzard

Yes, this could definately be improved. Its impact could be a little larger than it is right now. Although, you have to be careful not to over-do it. That would be worse than how popularity works right now.

A little larger? This is probably a rare example, but...

I created an expansion team in the 2005 season, using a MLB based league. I took it over and this is our history as of 2013:

Year W  L   PCT Pos Atten. Revenue     Payroll     Profit/Loss 
2012 85 77 .525 3 1611135 $50,643,008 $87,647,599 $-37,004,591 
2011 73 89 .451 5 1029593 $47,250,736 $67,809,062 $-20,558,326 
2010 72 90 .444 5 1347066 $50,435,413 $45,326,884 $5,108,529 
2009 70 92 .432 5 1354864 $50,552,573 $51,352,895 $-800,322 
2008 76 86 .469 5 1609686 $46,109,123 $30,885,673 $15,223,450 
2007 88 75 .540 2 1566008 $37,669,892 $40,123,627 $-2,453,735 
2006 77 85 .475 5 1671887 $38,722,718 $32,480,570 $6,242,148 
2005 76 86 .469 3 2621894 $48,231,480 $23,066,740 $25,164,740

I created the team with no minor leagues, so my minor leaguers are just now really starting to be the majority of my team. I jumped the gun on bringing in FAs in 2011 and they really dissapointed. I added a few more in 2012 and got to respectability. Anyways, we're currently 33-28 and tied for 2nd place at 3 games behind the division leader. Our Fan Interest was 48.

Until on 6/12/2013 I cut a 32 year old pitcher from Triple-A who signed with the team on 5/8/2013. He has a career 6.07 ERA in 86 IP. None of them for my team. He hasn't pitched in the bigs since 2011. He managed 36 innings of 6.94 ERA and an 0-4 record for my club in Triple-A while I had him. For some inexplicable reason his local popularity was 5/6. Cutting him dropped my Fan Interest all the way to 42 points.

For my franchise, that is a huge hit. All over a guy who should have meant absolutely nothing to my fan base.

[mrbill]

Yeah, unexplainable large influences may not detract from the game, but ones that seem explainable yet defy logic usually do detract.

When one can make reasonable assumptions and then find later they don't hold, that's annoying.

This is why the apparently-random "I don't like your organization" response during FA is more tolerable than your #5 pitcher having more local popularity than your ace.

Unless a lot of other stuff gets implemented, I hope this one just goes away.

[Aordolin]

Originally Posted by battists

I wouldn't be surprised if it went away entirely. It added relatively little, and Markus has already stated that some of the other front-office type stuff like promotions will be going away. When you think about it, it seems like most of the marketing-related stuff will be going away, and this kind of ties in there.

I wont miss the promotions, Ive always thought them to be silly. I hope the front office stuff is expanded a little. I dont want to set the price of hot dogs and beer but it would be nice to have some more options when it comes to seat pricing, etc. I did like the concept player popularity though but it was definately flawed.

[battists]

Originally Posted by Aordolin

I wont miss the promotions, Ive always thought them to be silly. I hope the front office stuff is expanded a little. I dont want to set the price of hot dogs and beer but it would be nice to have some more options when it comes to seat pricing, etc. I did like the concept player popularity though but it was definately flawed.

Aordolin, of course I'm not so helpful as to have a link, but I'm fairly certain Markus explicitly said that the front office stuff was being taken out almost entirely. I wouldn't expect to see that expanded at all. It might have been in BigCity's interview, I can't quite recall. :P

Someone should put together links to everything Markus has ever said.

[Astros33Resurrected]

This feature could defanetly be improved upon.

[Markus Heinsohn]

This is reworked, and you cannot see a popularity rating no more... it's now more of a hidden thing that changes dynamically. I prefer it that way now, having coded it in OOTP 6.5 in a different way.

[Dark Horse]

i wasn't necessarily down on this feature. i think part of the negative response that it got is because most of us are math guys. So it's not enough to say Player X has a 76 popularity. We want to know how it fits in the overall equation. And why doesn't Player Y have the same popularity if his stats (or ratings or whatever) are the same?

It helped me imagine what type of person the player was. If he had high popularity but low stats. i would think that this guy must be the guy that hangs around and signs all the autographs. Or he's really cute and all the female fans love him. Or something like that.

Anyway, i hope it stays. Or if it goes it comes back. But here are some additions/improvements for this feature.

1) IRL the All Star game is part a popularity contest. Allow the option for national popularity to be factored into who makes the all star team. You could even consider local popularity and the team's fan interest. A player that has a high local pop rating for a team with high fan interest would garner more "votes" because the home fans would be willing to stuff the ballot box for him. Take Michael Monet for instance. With his stats and high pop ratings, he should've made the all star team this season. But he was snubbed.

2) Add the attendance boost for the home team when that day's starting pitcher has a high local popularity rating. And once he's played an adequate number of games, his stats should play a role, too. Fans won't continue to come to games to see a player if he isn't playing well.

3) Also, add a boost if a visiting player when they come to town. In this instance, the player has to have a high national popularity rating. And again, once he's played an adequate number of games, his stats should play a role, too.

The attendance boost doesn't have to come from every popular player on the visiting team, just the one with the highest popularity and on the active roster. (Fans in Houston don't come to Giants games if Bonds is injured.) And i would recommend the boosts be something along these lines: 4 pop rating +10%, 5 PR +20%, 6 PR +30%.

This would give the daily attendance some spikes. Especially, since promotions are being taken away. It doesn't seem realistic that a team would have the same 21,357 (*random number selected) every game; unless that was their maximum stadium capacity and they sold out every game.

4) Finally, there should be some fluidity to the pop ratings. Of course, it may be this way in the current version. We've only played a few seasons with it so i haven't had a chance to see this movement. But the Nation PR should sometimes change gradually over the seasons. If his stats are consistently higher, a no name should be able to become extremely popular and vice versa. i don't think Sammy Sosa will pull the same attendance this year as he would have when he was hitting 60 HRs a year. And, if a player goes to a new team, his Local PR should start off equal to his NPR. i understand there was something hidden that sort of controlled this but it should gradually find that level as the new team gets to know him. And he shouldn't shouldn't have the same LPR on every team. Maybe New York didn't like him. But maybe St. Louis did. Or maybe Los Angelas thought the guy was great but Philly didn't.

[Dark Horse]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

This is reworked, and you cannot see a popularity rating no more... it's now more of a hidden thing that changes dynamically. I prefer it that way now, having coded it in OOTP 6.5 in a different way.

Could you be convinced to put an option in where we could see the pop ratings somehow?

i like to write articles about that, too. It helps me immerse myself into the league. See the third and fourth posts in our league preview.

[kingcharlesxii]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

This is reworked, and you cannot see a popularity rating no more... it's now more of a hidden thing that changes dynamically. I prefer it that way now, having coded it in OOTP 6.5 in a different way.

I think I'm not understanding this right. I'm worried that with hidden popularity ratings I'll trade away a 1 star scrub but find out he was hugely popular and my fan interest will take a hit.

[Astros33Resurrected]

Originally Posted by kingcharlesxii

I think I'm not understanding this right. I'm worried that with hidden popularity ratings I'll trade away a 1 star scrub but find out he was hugely popular and my fan interest will take a hit.

exactly.

[Kelric]

Originally Posted by kingcharlesxii

I think I'm not understanding this right. I'm worried that with hidden popularity ratings I'll trade away a 1 star scrub but find out he was hugely popular and my fan interest will take a hit.

Just like I did.

I never really pay much attention to the popularity ratings and just consider it a bonus if signing a guy brings in points or trading one away drops points a bit. But the scrub situation I described is a bit of an extreme. Nobody is that good looking or signs that many autographs over a month.

[kingcharlesxii]

Originally Posted by Kelric

Just like I did.

I never really pay much attention to the popularity ratings and just consider it a bonus if signing a guy brings in points or trading one away drops points a bit. But the scrub situation I described is a bit of an extreme. Nobody is that good looking or signs that many autographs over a month.

Well as it is now I usually check popularity levels before I re-sign or trade players so at least I have pretty good idea of what will happen to my fan interest.

[disposableheros]

Originally Posted by kingcharlesxii

Well as it is now I usually check popularity levels before I re-sign or trade players so at least I have pretty good idea of what will happen to my fan interest.

i specifically sign 25th men and AAA backups on the basis of their high local pop. its a nice little bonus.